Help me understand - What is a Charismatic Catholic

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I generally agree with the notion that we Catholics should not use homily, music, the priest, other parishioners as excuses for leaving the parish or not attending mass. However, when another parish has a more welcoming attitude, another priest has a more articulate way of delivering God’s message (so that parishioners understand better or more easily), another parish has arguably better music (perhaps better sung, more heartfelt, more congregation participation), who am I to judge when a person is drawn towards one parish or priest and not the others.

If a person is really called into the Catholic Charismatic Renewal mass, then it is probably better for him/her to attend mass there than attending mass with a heavy heart or with no heart or even not attending at all. Each person has his/her own calling to Christ. If a person is leaving my parish because of the music, it can be of many factors. Perhaps we should look into ourselves as a parish to improve instead of suggesting he/she is being shallow. Perhaps my parish’s choir is not singing well, perhaps the congregation is just not participating enough, etc. I am not saying we should all go with CCR’s type of music, because even traditional music if not sung with our hearts is not reverend either.

Comparing CCR with a megachurch service I have attended once out of curiosity, complete with a rock-band music style, a fiery sermon, laying of hands, extending hands when singing, fuller participation from congregation, etc… I did not feel the same calling as I have in the Catholic Church.

I personally like CCR mass, though I still feel out of place when I attend one. With that said, I do have a yearning of attending one from time to time. Anyway, I apologize for the ramblings.
 
Paradiso said:
It’s shallow faith, no matter the intention.
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Wow. One has to wonder how you came by such a judgmental and hostile attitude toward Charismatics.
Paradiso said:
But that’s the mass, that’s prayer. Anything that attempts to take the place of these is seriously misunderstanding them.
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I agree, but prayer meetings do not try to take the place of Mass. Neither does praying the Rosary, or the Divine Office. It seems that you don’t believe Catholics should have any prayer life outside of the Mass.
Paradiso said:
If the fellowship, if the community becomes the focus, then the focus is not on God.
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Well, I agree, but you seem to be making an assumption that people who want to meet together for fellowship or praise and worship outside of the Mass are not focusing on God. I wonder how you came to believe that?
Paradiso said:
A priest does many things, but they represent their calling in private ministry and the mass.
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Wow. Better chain those priests to the rectory, and only let them be chained to the altar otherwise! God forbid they have a coffee or a theological discussion gathering with any interested parishioners! Honestly!

It is interesting that the first disciples seemed to be quite charismatic, and did not restrict themselves to Mass:

Acts 2:42
42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.

Life among the Believers
43 And fear came upon every soul; and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. 44 And all who believed were together and had all things in common; 45 and they sold their possessions and goods and distributed them to all, as any had need. 46 And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they partook of food with glad and generous hearts, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

To the OP, there are some modern charismatic communities that strive for these biblical ideals. Naturally they do not see their faith as something that must be hid in a closet “private” at all times or confine it to Mass. Many of us who have been involved in the Charismatic renewal did so because we wanted fellowship with other Catholics outside of Mass for prayer, learning, and service.
 
I went to a charmetic 1 day retreat last month. And they expect or pray for the holy spirit to energize the worship time.
 
This is good advice for the OP. Focus on what the Church teaches, rather than those who deny the legitimacy of what she teaches.

http://www.nsc-chariscenter.org/

Catechism

768 So that she can fulfill her mission, the Holy Spirit "bestows upon [the Church] varied hierarchic and charismatic gifts, and in this way directs her."177 "Henceforward the Church, endowed with the gifts of her founder and faithfully observing his precepts of charity, humility and self-denial, receives the mission of proclaiming and establishing among all peoples the Kingdom of Christ and of God, and she is on earth the seed and the beginning of that kingdom."178

The faithful are all given gifts to serve the Body of Christ. While some of these gifts may function during Mass, most of them do not. We are all obligated to unwrap the gifts and ministry to which we are called and committed in Confirmation.

For the exercise of this apostolate, the Holy Spirit Who sanctifies the people of God through ministry and the sacraments gives the faithful special gifts also (cf. 1 Cor. 12:7), “allotting them to everyone according as He wills” (1 Cor. 12:11) in order that individuals, administering grace to others just as they have received it, may also be “good stewards of the manifold grace of God” (1 Peter 4:10), to build up the whole body in charity (cf. Eph. 4:16). From the acceptance of these charisms, including those which are more elementary, there arise for each believer the right and duty to use them in the Church and in the world for the good of men and the building up of the Church, in the freedom of the Holy Spirit who “breathes where He wills” (John 3:8). This should be done by the laity in communion with their brothers in Christ, especially with their pastors who must make a judgment about the true nature and proper use of these gifts not to extinguish the Spirit but to test all things and hold for what is good (cf. 1 Thess. 5:12,19,21).(4)

Some people seem to be afraid to do this, and are hostile toward those who are eager to do so.

1 Corinthians 14:1 “Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit”
 
Paradiso said:
Charismatic Catholics are an oxymoron. They just don’t know it. It’s a kind of sanctioned heresy, in that it takes the focus away from what it should be, making your faith a selfish phenomenon instead of a selfless one.
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“I don’t like it, so it’s heretical and selfish.”

:roll_eyes:
 
Well, yes. That was the best part. I finally put the statues side by side and told him I thought it was another miracle. At that point he figured it out. We both had a good laugh. He got me with pranks a few times too.
 
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Sorry, I should have been more clear. I haven’t been to one before, but I have read about it and and have noticed that some do seek it for simply the experience of God rather than God Himself. Their intentions seem good at first, but there is a danger in seeking special spiritual graces from God. It may cause some to rely on the feeling of God, expecting Him to hand out supernatural graces like Halloween candy. The Lord knows what is best for us and bestows such graces when He thinks we are ready, when He thinks it would help us most. Likewise, He allows spiritual desolation so that we do not rely on consolations for the mere feeling of it, so that our faith is more grounded in the will.

It’s okay to desire consolation from God, but to seek supernatural graces comes at risk; it would be hard for us to even know if it truly is God acting on the soul.
 
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misstherese said:
I haven’t been to one before, but I have read about it
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With all due respect, I don’t think reading about it qualifies anyone to judge those who attend.

Sure, there are probably some insincere charismatics, but there are also probably some insincere non-charismatics. What about all those people who attend the OF Mass in order to “keep up appearances” to fellow parishioners or to have some kind of social/ gossip time with their friends, or those who attend the EF Mass with a self-righteous sense of showing off how holy and “reverent” they are?

The fact that some are insincere doesn’t mean the entire type of Mass is bad. Those who do not like a particular permitted form of Mass do not have to attend it. There is no need to dump all over it for everyone else.

I’m not particularly charismatic and some of the charismatics I’ve known got a little silly at times by trying to convince everyone at the regular OF Mass that charismatic was the way to go, but there are also some really good preachers and some very sincere people involved in the charismatic movement.
 
Brendan_64 said:
Charismatic worship is not my thing. I find it quite uncomfortable really, but perhaps that is just me (an introverted conservative).

Having been along to a charismatic programme, which I left before the end, it really did seem to me that you were expected to actively want to receive the gift of tongues. Why should you actively want to receive this? For what purpose? This was never adequately explained, other than it being a special form of prayer. There also was the expectation that you would wish to be ‘slain in the Spirit’. Again, why?

I have indeed met some very faithful Catholics who are into charismatic worship (including one who also attends TLM and who has an amazing faith) but I just don’t get it.
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I agree with you that your leaders did mislead you about tongue and slain in the Spirit. You do not have to have them actually and yet be holy and being filled with the Holy Spirit.

What else did you do in the Chrismatic Renewal? What was the focus there? Did you learn about prayers, Sacraments, community living, charity work, ministering to the sicks and those who need prayers, BIble, Church teachings, improving married and family life and having support from each other in your spiritual walk and life?
 
misstherese said:
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I haven’t been to one before, but I have read about it and and have noticed that some do seek it for simply the experience of God rather than God Himself. Their intentions seem good at first, but there is a danger in seeking special spiritual graces from God. It may cause some to rely on the feeling of God, expecting Him to hand out supernatural graces like Halloween candy. The Lord knows what is best for us and bestows such graces when He thinks we are ready, when He thinks it would help us most. Likewise, He allows spiritual desolation so that we do not rely on consolations for the mere feeling of it, so that our faith is more grounded in the will.

It’s okay to desire consolation from God, but to seek supernatural graces comes at risk; it would be hard for us to even know if it truly is God acting on the soul.
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I agree. There is no renewal if we do not seek renewal in our lives so that we can be closer to God. Too many activities that you saw were simply superficial. They should seek renewal in their family and married life. It should be something tangible and life changing. No wonder people are not impressed by what they did because people could not see the fruits in them.

The Catholic Charismatic Renewal seeks to bring people to a greater awareness and experience of the living God in such a way that their life is changed. We cannot change ourselves sufficiently thus we need the power of the Holy Spirit to help us to achieve them.
 
charismatic catholics are (imo) bunch of “look at me” show-offs in mass
the age of “new world” catholicim passed many years ago

but they cling to 70’s/ 80’s era catholicism

they raise their palms (in defiance of the rubrics of the Mass) and basically make fools of themselves,

sorry for being “mean”; this post will never survive noodleration
 
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Hi. No, you are not mean. It is true people like to show off and against the hirearchy and that obviously is not from the Holy Spirit.

A person who really is infused by the Holy Spirit would produce in him the fruits of the Holy Spirit. And which the majority of them are, who usually do not hog the limelight and therefore whom we do not know.

God bless.
 
Do you think only Charismatics do that or that all Charismatics do that? Because that is not my experience at all. Most of the Charismatic Catholics I have met are some of the most humble people I have ever met.

On the contrary, I have encountered some rather prideful traditional Catholics. Sin does not discriminate, and I find it inaccurate to call an entire movement as “show off” just because it differs from your style.
 
Not only prideful, I may say, but bad-mouthed everybody except themselves. Nobody is right and nothing is right except themselves. People like that are everywhere.
 
i’l just say my experience is 180 degrees the other way

STOP THE PALM RAISING
 
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For those who don’t know, I’m a priest. I always identify that since you can’t really tell from my title.

I went to a retreat last year that was charismatic in nature. I consider myself charismatic, personally, but was unaware the retreat was charismatic before arriving. The director was a Franciscan priest from Franciscan University in Steubenville, OH. A bishop was a keynote speaker. The entire retreat was outstanding. Despite the fact that I consider myself charismatic, I don’t “hold my hands in the air” during Mass. I don’t “pray out loud.” The most charismatic priest I’ve ever known sat like a statue for a solid hour, every day, before the Eucharist. So, I would greatly appreciate it if the stereotype of charismatics falling on the floor screaming would stop.

As has been noted in this thread, Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa, OFM Cap. is involved in the Charismatic Renewal. He’s been the thrice preacher to the papal household. Pope Benedict XVI appointed Dr. Ralph Martin to the Pontifical Council for the New Evangelization. He’s a leader of the charismatic Renewal in the US.

For the life of me, I can’t understand how otherwise faithful Catholics can be so critical of this movement. I would even argue that it isn’t “one spirituality among many.” Ignatian spirituality is one among many. As is Benedictine, or Franciscan, or whatever. This, however, comes straight from the writings of Paul. I would argue that if we take the New Evangelization seriously, we can’t help but be charismatic. Charismatic doesn’t just mean praying in tongues. After all, that’s the lowest of the gifts. It’s living out the call of baptism and confirmation to go make disciples. It’s allowing the Holy Spirit, who objectively dwells in the souls of the baptized, to work through you.

Check out Christ the King parish in Lansing, MI. Frankly, this is what a parish is supposed to look like and do.

https://www.ctkcc.net

FWIW, this parish has perpetual adoration, a number of times for confession, and many and various outreaches and catechetical opportunities. They have a MOMS club as well. That would be Mothers of Men in Seminary. Yes, plural. “By their fruits you shall know them.” —Jesus.
 
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