Help me understand - What is a Charismatic Catholic

[GladTidings]

 I am a traditional catholic because I converted from a non-denominational church which had the same kind of atmosphere you would find in a charismatic service. These displays bothered me and it all seemed contrived.

 My concern is this:  at what point do people in the CCR begin to lose a craving for the Eucharist? When does singing upbeat songs, raising hands, getting slain in the spirit, speaking in tongues, replace the good feeling you have after going to confession? 

 Perhaps it does not happen for some people, but it is a slippery slope, and if you are not using the Hillary Step to climb Mount Everest, you could very easily fall.

 

[Reuben_J]

Charismatic is a Christian who has discernment of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

I understand that you are trying to be helpful but that could probably be misleading and could lead to misunderstanding here, especially if your audience are not from the CCR.

First of all there is no such thing as Charismatic Catholic per se. It is Catholic Charismatic Renewal. Let’s repeat it: Renewal, Renewal, Renewal!!!

CCR is about Catholics being changed by the power of the Holy Spirit. And believe me, the majority of them do not have the Charismatic gifts, let alone the gift of discernment.

CCR is about Catholics, who through the power of the Holy Spirit, experience certain changes in their lives, which is usually repentance.

They are just ordinary people, many of them are even not church going, do not live a religious Catholic life, and even very secular. But through encounter with the CCR, perhaps through some seminars or conferences or minisitry visit, counsel, do experience the love of God, which they did not realize before. That affect them to change, to love God and thus their faith in the Catholic Church is being renewed. They become practicing Catholics and more, to do their part for God and the Church. Of course, in the process they become more holy, more committed but these are all because of the power of the Holy Spirit.

So to say that Catholic Charismatic must have the Charismatic gifts, it is not true. The only true thing there is, is that they were changed and renewed in their faith.

But of course, there are many gifts of the Holy Spirit which come from the same Lord which are given as the Spirit give for the upbuilding of the whole body. They are given the gifts so that they can serve in whatever their capacity in the church are.

Do not be deceived then by the term or jargon ‘Catholic Charismatic’. When this term is being colloqually used, it is always in the undertanding of the people in the CCR, not because they must have the charismatic gifts, let alone the gift of discernment of the Spirit.

God bless.

 

[brian_custer]

i appreciate your authority, father

the charismatics in my local parish raise their hands higher than the priest; it is wrong; it is distracting;
my pastor has told them not to do it

but yet this persists

 

[Tis_Bearself]

My concern is this: at what point do people in the CCR begin to lose a craving for the Eucharist? When does singing upbeat songs, raising hands, getting slain in the spirit, speaking in tongues, replace the good feeling you have after going to confession?

If you are not involved in CCR, then this is not your concern, especially since CCR is not going to be replacing your traditional form of worship any time soon or even replacing the usual OF Mass. You would need to interview every individual CCR person to find out where each one stands on this, just as one would have to interview every traditionally worshipping Catholic to find out which of them might have lost sight of the Eucharist in all the focus on form of worship, gestures, smells and bells.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

So, I would greatly appreciate it if the stereotype of charismatics falling on the floor screaming would stop.

…

For the life of me, I can’t understand how otherwise faithful Catholics can be so critical of this movement.

While I don’t like the stereotypes and think that a lot of the posts in this thread about charismatics are misguided and/or intolerant, I can see how the criticism started. When I was growing up in an ordinary old Midwestern parish struggling with the implementation of Vatican II, the “charismatics” did not tend to be people who spent an hour a day at Adoration or were otherwise quietly filled with the spirit. They tended to be people who didn’t like the ordinary form of the Mass, and in some cases were very vocal about saying so, and wanted something that was more lively or engaging and involved a lot of gestures and actions (raising your arms in the air, doing a lot of effusive hugging and hand-holding and such) that were off-putting to the parishioners who just wanted to engage in traditional worship. There may well have been very quiet, worshipful charismatics, but they were not as visible compared to the more loud and open ones.

I think over time the word “charismatic” took on some negative connotations, as unfair as that may be, because I see what are basically charismatic services now advertised in various parishes under words and names that omit the word “charismatic”. For example, they might be called “healing services” or something referencing the Holy Spirit. I have wondered if this is an attempt to get people interested in these services who otherwise might not attend if they saw the word “charismatic”.

 

[Reuben_J]

 I am a traditional catholic because I converted from a non-denominational church which had the same kind of atmosphere you would find in a charismatic service. These displays bothered me and it all seemed contrived.

 My concern is this:  at what point do people in the CCR begin to lose a craving for the Eucharist? When does singing upbeat songs, raising hands, getting slain in the spirit, speaking in tongues, replace the good feeling you have after going to confession? 

 Perhaps it does not happen for some people, but it is a slippery slope, and if you are not using the Hillary Step to climb Mount Everest, you could very easily fall.

I can tell you that would be the least that happen in the Charismatic Renewal. Most of them even do not know about it. You are talking about Protestants, right?

Remember, there are some two hundred million Catholics being renewed in their Catholic faith in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal all over the world. Nobody really bother about those falling on the floor which is probably a phenomenon in some U.S. cities or Canada.

If you realize the great renewal of people by the Holy Spirit, you would be grateful to God for what happen.

That is why the Church, all the last four Popes (except JP I, his reign too short to make any comment about CCR), recognize the CCR as the work of the Holy Spirit and applaud them for their contribution to the Church.

God bless.

 

[Reuben_J]

Share what makes a person a Charismatic catholic and what some of the culture would be like. Thanks.

If you can state below if you consider yourself a traditional or a more modern catholic as well.

Blessings!

Here is some information from ICRSS, the CCR website:

What is the Catholic Charismatic Renewal?

“The love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us”

The Renewal caught the attention of the Church, and the leaders of the movement met Pope Paul VI (1975) as well as Pope John Paul II several times. In addition, several of the bishops’ conferences, of various countries, have written pastoral letters of encouragement and support for the movement.

The Catholic Charismatic Renewal is not a single, unified worldwide movement. It does not have a single founder or group of founders as many other movements do. It has no membership lists. It is a highly diverse collection of individuals, groups and activities—covenant communities, prayer groups, schools, small faith sharing groups, renewed parishes, conferences, retreats, and even involvement in various apostolates and ministries—, often quite independent of one another, in different stages and modes of development and with different emphases, that nevertheless share the same fundamental experience and espouse the same general goals.

The common thread for the Movement is the ‘baptism of the Holy Spirit’. For many people, this new, powerful, and life-transforming outpouring of the Holy Spirit takes place in the context of a specifically designed seminar called ‘Life in the Spirit’, although many have been ‘baptised in the Spirit’ outside of the seminar.

“We live in the Church at a privileged moment of the Spirit. Everywhere people are trying to know Him better, as the Scripture reveals Him. They are happy to place themselves under His inspiration. They are gathering about Him; they want to let themselves be led by Him.”
Evangelii Nuntiandi, 75

 

[Reuben_J]

The Five Objectives of the CCR
The deepest identity of the CCR and its essential mission described in the preamble of the ICCRS Statutes, specified in five objectives, as follows:

• To foster mature and continuous personal conversion to Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour.

• To foster a decisive personal receptivity to the person, presence and the power of the Holy Spirit. These two spiritual graces are often experienced together in what is called in different parts of the world a baptism in the Holy Spirit, or a release of the Holy Spirit, or a renewal of the Holy Spirit. They are most often understood as a personal acceptance of the graces of Christian initiation and as an empowering for personal Christian service in the Church and in the world.

• To foster the reception and use of the spiritual gifts (charismata) not only in the CCR but also in the broader Church. These gifts, ordinary and extraordinary are abundantly found among laity, religious and clergy. Their proper understanding and use in harmony with other elements of the Church life is a source of strength for Christians on their journey towards holiness and in the carrying out of their mission.

• To foster the work of evangelization in the power of the Holy Spirit, including the evangelization of the unchurched, the re-evangelization of nominal Christians, the evangelization of culture and social structures. CCR especially promotes sharing in the Church’s mission by proclaiming the Gospel in word and deed, and by bearing witness to Jesus Christ through personal testimony and through those works of faith and justice to which each one is called.

• To foster the ongoing growth in holiness through the proper integration of these charismatic emphases with the full life of the Church. This is accomplished through participation in a rich sacramental and liturgical life, and appreciation of the tradition of Catholic prayer and spirituality, and ongoing formation in Catholic doctrine. This is guided by the Church’s Magisterium, and participation in the pastoral plan of the Church.

 

[Reuben_J]

Messages from the Popes

Several times, Popes have addressed the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. Below you will find some of the most important quotations that have given the Renewal light and strength. ICCRS has published a book with all the messages and addresses which the Popes have given to the CCR: The book, “Then Peter stood up…” – Collection of the Popes’ Addresses to the CCR from its origin to the year 2012.

Pope Paul VI
“We rejoice with you, dear friends, at the renewal of the spiritual life manifested in the Church today, in different forms and in various environments. […] In all that, we can recognize the mysterious and hidden work of the Spirit, who is the soul of the church.”

Address of Paul VI on the occasion of the first International Leaders’ Conference
Grottaferrata. Rome, Italy • 10 October 1973

“How then could this “spiritual renewal” not be “a chance” for the church and for the world? And how, in this case, could one not take all the means to ensure that it remains so? […] Nothing is more necessary for such a world, more and more secularized, than the testimony of this “spiritual renewal”, which we see the Holy Spirit bring about today in the most diverse regions and environments. Its manifestations are varied: deep communion of souls, close contact with God in faithfulness to the commitments undertaken at Baptism, in prayer that is often community prayer, in which each one, expressing himself freely, helps, supports and nourishes the prayer of others, and, at the basis of everything, a personal conviction. This conviction has its source not only in instruction received by faith but also in a certain experience of real life, namely, that without God, man can do nothing, that with him, on the contrary, everything becomes possible.”

Address of Pope Paul VI to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal on occasion of the Second International Leaders&##8217; Conference
Rome, Italy • 19 May 1975

 

[Reuben_J]

Saint John Paul II, Pope

“I am convinced that this movement is a sign of His action (of the Spirit). The world is much in need of this action of the Holy Spirit, and it needs many instruments for this action. […] Now I see this movement, this activity everywhere.”

Private audience of Pope John Paul II with the ICCRO Council
Rome, Italy • 11 December 1979

“This morning I have the joy of meeting this assembly of yours, in which I see young people, adults, old people, men and women, united in the profession of the same faith, sustained by longing for the same hope, bound together by bonds of that charity which “has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit which has been given to us” (Rm. 5:5). To this effusion of the Spirit we know we owe a deeper and deeper experience of the presence of Christ, thanks to which we can grow daily in loving knowledge of the Father. Rightly, therefore, your movement pays particular attention to the action, mysterious but real, that the third person of the Holy Trinity plays in the Christian’s life.”

First audience of Pope John Paul II with the Italian Renewal
Rome, Italy • 23 November 1980

 

[Reuben_J]

Pope Benedict XVI

“What we learn in the New Testament on charism, which appeared as visible signs of the coming of the Holy Spirit, is not a historical event of the past, but a reality ever alive. It is the same divine Spirit, soul of the Church, that acts in every age and those mysterious and effective interventions of the Spirit are manifest in our time in a providential way. The Movements and New Communities are like an outpouring of the Holy Spirit in the Church and in contemporary society. We can, therefore, rightly say that one of the positive elements and aspects of the Community of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal is precisely their emphasis on the charisms or gifts of the Holy Spirit and their merit lies in having recalled their topicality in the Church.”

Address of His Holiness Benedict XVI to participants in a meeting organized by the Catholic Fraternity of Charismatic Covenant Communities and Fellowships
Hall of Blessings. Rome, Italy • Friday, 31 October 2008

 

[Reuben_J]

Pope Francis

““You, the charismatic Renewal, have received a great gift from the Lord. Your movement’s birth was willed by the Holy Spirit to be ‘a current of grace in the Church and for the Church’. This is your identity: to be a current of grace. […] You have received the great gift of diversity of charisms, the diversity which becomes harmony in the Holy Spirit, and in service to the Church. […] The Charismatic Renewal is a great force meant to serve the preaching of the Gospel in the joy of the Holy Spirit. […] You, the people of God, the people of the Charismatic Renewal, must be careful not to lose the freedom which the Holy Spirit has given you! […] I expect you to share with everyone in the Church the grace of baptism in the Holy Spirit (a phrase we find in the Acts of the Apostles).” ”

ADDRESS OF THE HOLY FATHER POPE FRANCIS TO CHARISMATIC RENEWAL AT 37TH CONVOCATION OF RNS OLYMPIC STADIUM • ROME, ITALY, 1 JUNE 2014

 

[Tis_Bearself]

What is the Catholic Charismatic Renewal?

“The love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us”

What confuses me about all this, and to some extent always has, is why do people need a special CCR movement in order to be filled with the Holy Spirit?
This is something freely available to all Catholics, perhaps all Christians.
Apart from the special charismatic prayer services and Masses, there’s nothing particularly unique about it.
Every time we pray to God, we’re praying to the Holy Spirit.
Why do we need a special seminar about that?

 

[Reuben_J]

Yes, of course. By virtue of our Baptism, every Catholic has the Holy Spirit in him/her. But as we can see, many of us, not all of course, live as if we do not have the Holy Spirit, who should give us the power for a Christian life of victory. Many a time in our life, we are defeated and lack of faith and fire (enthusiasm) for God.

The Seminar is just to facilitate the participants in an orderly way to receive the Holy Spirit, to activate rather, since we already have the Lord of life in us.

Of course, we can receive the Holy Spirit on our own but it is easier when we are more prepared for it in a conducive atmosphere where there are brothers and sisters to support and minister to us.

And the follow up. What happen after that? Without the support and community of like-minded Christians, as we often saw in many people, we can backslide. So community, that is the Church and her people, are important in the journey of the life of a Christian.

God bless.

 

[Reuben_J]

There are some trend, or formula if you like, how we can receive the Holy Spirit. It is knowledge about God. That is why if you are already a mature and devoted Christian, you do not need it, because you have all the tools and a life that is able to receive the Holy Spirit. Like Jesus said, he comes not for the healthy but the sick.

And remember, many of the participants are from all work of life and may be just nominal Catholics or Sunday Christians and nothing more, let alone properly catechised themselves.

The Seminar will prepare the participants with the relevant knowledge (teachings) about God and what the Holy Spirit can do and who He is. From experience, Catholics know about the First and Second Person of the Holy Trinity, but very little about the Holy Spirit. This sometimes include the clergy, depending on their formation, training and experience.

So a suitable Seminar is indeed very helpful.

God bless.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

While I don’t like the stereotypes and think that a lot of the posts in this thread about charismatics are misguided and/or intolerant, I can see how the criticism started. When I was growing up in an ordinary old Midwestern parish struggling with the implementation of Vatican II, the “charismatics” did not tend to be people who spent an hour a day at Adoration or were otherwise quietly filled with the spirit. They tended to be people who didn’t like the ordinary form of the Mass, and in some cases were very vocal about saying so, and wanted something that was more lively or engaging and involved a lot of gestures and actions (raising your arms in the air, doing a lot of effusive hugging and hand-holding and such) that were off-putting to the parishioners who just wanted to engage in traditional worship. There may well have been very quiet, worshipful charismatics, but they were not as visible compared to the more loud and open ones.

You conflate two things here, (1) being adoring / filled with the Holy Spirit, and (2) being quiet and worshipful. In a non-charismatic Mass, I can see why people would be annoyed by hand-raising or vocal prayer. I would find that annoying too. And I understand that there were a lot of people of shallow faith among charismatics 40 years ago, simply because there were so many charismatics! But these days, charismatics tend to be reasonably traditional and tend to be far more solid on fundamental moral issues than other Catholics. They can have those good traits without being quiet and worshipful in the sense you mean.

In other words, “it takes all kinds”.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

What confuses me about all this, and to some extent always has, is why do people need a special CCR movement in order to be filled with the Holy Spirit?

If you’ll notice, the Scriptures have TWO separate accounts of the descent of the Holy Spirit on the apostles: one while Jesus lived and the other after the ascension. This suggests, to me, that the Holy Spirit is revealed over and over in our lives, in new ways. I disagree with anyone who thinks that baptism in the Holy Spirit is THE ONLY descent of the Holy Spirit that matters, but it is one descent that matters.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

You conflate two things here, (1) being adoring / filled with the Holy Spirit, and (2) being quiet and worshipful. In a non-charismatic Mass, I can see why people would be annoyed by hand-raising or vocal prayer. I would find that annoying too. And I understand that there were a lot of people of shallow faith among charismatics 40 years ago, simply because there were so many charismatics! But these days, charismatics tend to be reasonably traditional and tend to be far more solid on fundamental moral issues than other Catholics. They can have those good traits without being quiet and worshipful in the sense you mean.

In other words, “it takes all kinds”.

I’m not the one “meaning” anything here. I do not see many charismatics acting in these effusive ways nowadays; a lot of the ones who carried on like this in past decades have by now either passed away, found a parish where they can have what they prefer, or simply left the Church. But I am simply pointing out why people have these misguided notions of how charismatics act. It’s because of the past way in which some of them acted.

 

[tifischer]

Night cap? Clearly Not the best discernment to suggest that.

Fruit and gifts of the Spirit is pretty ubiquitous…all Christian denominations and Catholic (except Mormonism…I don’t know what they teach) share the same teachings on the fruits and gifts of the Holy Spirit. Although granted I don’t believe wiki is a reliable source…however in this case there is nothing false that I could find.

Using internet as a source is a topic you can take up with my pastor who refers me to google my Catecism questions because he does not want to take to the time to answer mine.

 

[tifischer]

The post specifically refers to Carismatic Catholics not Renewal…was this thread was highjacked?

All Christians should have some sense of discernment of the gifts and fruits of the Holy Spirit…that is to be “charismatic”.