help please

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Agreed. There are so many things that go into interpreting scripture. It was written so many years ago, that the meaning of certain things might not be understood by us. Shakespeare is exactly the same way. I may read a line of Shakespeare and THINK I understand exactly what it means, and then my professor puts it into the context of the time for me and the meaning totally changes.

For example, I was reading Romeo and Juliet and got to the balcony scene where Juliet says, “Romeo, Romeo! Wherefore art thou Romeo?” I of course immediately interpreted this as meaning, “Where are you Romeo?” (since he was not physically present at the time) and moved on. Only later did my professor explain that “wherefore” in Elizabethan English actually means “why”. Juliet is not wondering WHERE Romeo is physically, but rather WHY he was born Romeo Montague, her mortal enemy. She is asking a philosophical question about what makes us who we are and why. Is it a name? Are we merely that which we are called by our parents, or are we something more? What defines us as human beings?

Now, with this interpretation in mind, the text becomes so much more rich, Juliet’s plight so much more poignant. It’s about the eternal quest to define and understand who we are.

Without the knowledge and expertise of my instructor, I would have passed this verse by, and yes, gotten the “gist” of the play (Romeo and Juliet love each other, can’t be together because of their families, kill themselves, The End), but I would have missed so much, the true heart of the play. And that’s just ONE line!

Scripture is the same way. We can read it and enjoy it and get a
lot out of it. We can see parables in terms of our own lives and struggles and apply them. But, to really grasp the full richness of the text and to get to underlying meanings and interpretations, we need to rely on the experts, in this case, the traditions of the Apostles and the knowledge of biblical scholars.
Wrong! We rely on the Magisterium of the Church - its teaching office. Oddly, I’ve never known a knowledgeable Catholic to refer to the “traditions of the Apostles.” In Catholicism we refer to Sacred Tradition which we view as authoritative as Scripture. Thoughtfulone - are you really Catholic? The more of your posts I read, the more I think not.
 
Most likely Lutheranism
One of the many issues with Lutheranism is that Luther believed in the Real Presence, but not in all cases, he believed that if a priest was in a state of sin, that the Eucharist would not be in the consecration. Not to be too OT, but a major problem with that is that it would throw the Church into chaos, people would have no way of knowing a certain sacrament they received was actually present.
You sound like you are seeking understanding but remain with the faith during this journey.
I recommend one of Luther’s contemporaries Johannes Eck’s Enchiridion, he actually debated Luther and worked tirelessly to defend the faith. Not on his own, as much of what Luther had to say was his own words and interpretations, but Eck used what past theologians and saints wrote and humbled himself, whereas Luther thought himself adequate enough after a millenia and a half to go against all previous teachers. Hard to find, but he refutes much of Luther’s heresies in a very knowledgeable, humorous way. Maybe it’s available on the internet somewhere.
 
Bibleguy, it is true that your parents will not like this…but you must understand, just as you despise the Church’s “One True Church” teaching, there are many people out there who despise Christ’s words “No one comes through the Father but through me.” The reason I point that out is so that you can understand that just because you despise that teaching of the Church doesn’t mean that your parents will agree with you, it doesn’t mean it’s wrong–you think it’s wrong, and Catholics obviously disagree. Keep that in mind so that, even as you disagree with your parents, you can respect that they sincerely believe that there is only One True Church just as much as you (and they/we) believe in One True Lord. That does not make Catholics arrogant or overbearing, just as it does not make Christians arrogant or overbearing.

Now to more directly address the matter: If your child–assuming you’re ever a father–told you he was convinced Christianity as a whole was false, it would still be your Christian duty to continue to raise him by the Christian way of life. You might be able to accept that you can’t change what he believes on the inside, but insofar as your parental authority can be used to enforce Christian morality (having your child go to church, preventing him from committing any sin that you can actually prevent in your capacity as a parent, etc.), it would be your duty.

Likewise, it is your parents’ Catholic duty to raise you by the Catholic way of life, and as their son who is still living with them, you mustn’t make this hard for them. That means going to Mass, that means refraining from things that Catholics find sinful even if Protestants don’t, for as long as you live under your parents’ roof. That means doing these things peacefully, not protesting, complaining, and trying to rebel everytime your parents rightfully insist that as long as you live under their house you must live in accordance with Catholic morality. You may (and should) refrain from the sacraments for as long as you do not believe in Catholicism–but aside from that, you should cooperate entirely by doing all the things your parents ask of you. If they ask you to read or listen to Catholic apologetics, listen to them. If they try to convince you of the Faith, patiently listen and do not backtalk (even if it doesn’t convince you, instead of arguing simply admit you still aren’t convinced–answer why only if directly asked by them, and even then you must be TOTALLY respectful)…if you get frustrated by your parents’ efforts to keep you Catholic, remember that they’re only doing the same thing you would (hopefully) do if you were a parent and your child tried to leave Christianity.

They have a duty, and it is not your prerogative to make that duty a battle for them…in fact, as a loving son you should want to make this as easy for them as possible. If you are willing to respect your parents’ duty in this matter, then perhaps it will go more easily when you tell them…it will still break their hearts, as surely as it will one day break yours if you are a father and if your child professes he is leaving Christianity as a whole, and they will probably try throughout your life to bring you back to the Church just as you would try to bring your child back to Christianity…but if they can rest assured that you’re not going to rebel against their duty to make sure as best as they can that you live a Catholic lifestyle (even if you don’t have Catholic beliefs), I do indeed think it’ll make things go more easily. Remember, no matter how distraught or angry their reaction, it will be all the worse if you proceed to make their duty as Catholic parents more difficult for them.

Again, though…think long and hard about how you would feel if your child left Christianity altogether…you might feel as if you’d “failed” your child, as though you were a “failure” as a Christian parent. Your parents, depending on how orthodox their beliefs are, may feel the same way about your leaving the Church. You can sympathize with their pain. If only for them, if only for sparing them the pain that you can probably imagine if you put yourself in their shoes, you may want to give Catholicism a fighting chance for the next couple of years at least, even if you feel like you’ve already given it that…unless you actually believe giving Catholicism such a fighting chance could put your soul at risk, and you don’t seem the type to believe that (modern-day Lutherans tend not be of the “Catholics aren’t Christian” variety), you have nothing to lose, and this would be a loving way to “honor thy father and mother.” Just…think about it…for them…

I am sad that you currently wish to leave the Church, especially at such a young age…my prayers are with your family. 🙂

Blessings in Christ,
KindredSoul
 
And this is typical one true church arrogance I absolutely DESPISE
Look, it’s like this. There are different kinds of Catholics just as there are different personalities in different people. God made it that way so we would not be bored, I suppose.

Remember that when Jesus was assembling his disciples for the first time, he picked Matthew, a tax collector. I’m sure it was a while before the other disciples got to where they were friends with HIM.

Anyway, my point is that although the Canon Law or whatever is absolute, human beings are not. God allows for some wiggle room. This is why we have a conscience. If you do not enjoy spending time with ultra-traditional Catholics, then don’t. I personally am a middle-of-the-road Catholic. I don’t fit in well with the traditional Catholics (skirts and doilies on the heads) and I don’t particularly like the ultra-modern Catholics either who seem to have trouble saying “Abortion sucks and lemme tell ya why!!” because they are afraid of rocking some boat. I’ll rock a boat now!!

Try to find a volunteer group at the church that you attend that you would enjoy. Take a short break from the doctrine and just serve God for a while.

Look, I feel ya - Catholicism is not for sissies. But - in the long run it is worth it. You’ll find your way, just give it time.

Tracy
 
The thing is, I’ve actually felt much closer to God since my unofficial “conversion”
Feelings aren’t everything. Pentecostals get ALL wrapped up in “feelings”. The beauty of our Church is that we have the sacraments in which we know the Spirit and grace are present.
 
The thing is, I’ve actually felt much closer to God since my unofficial “conversion”
Are you sure about that? Really? Tell me what you like about this new church you’ve been going to. Maybe you can find a Church that has a Mass that offers elements or pieces of what you like in that church. For example, I go to a Mass where there is a Gospel Choir and it just happens to fit my work schedule too. You will not find a carbon-copy of any Protestant Service in the Mass, but in the music selections you can come, uh, closer. If you can’t find a Mass like that, say you live in a small town and there is only one Catholic Church, then I would still recommend finding your “fun” outside of church and doing your best to stay Catholic. You have to ask yourself, is church a place to really have fun? You have 167 hours in a week that you can have fun, 110 if you subtract sleep time and travel time to Mass. Are you really trying to tell me that in 109 hours in a week you can’t find some way to enjoy yourself and when you are done you can’t spend 1 hour a week thanking God for the fun you did have? You can do this, I have faith in you! Don’t give up the good fight and stay with us! 😃

Tracy
 
It’s not about that Protestant services are more “fun”. Its about the Truth, which I don’t believe is in the Catholic Church.
 
It’s not about that Protestant services are more “fun”. Its about the Truth, which I don’t believe is in the Catholic Church.
You mentioned that you are leaning towards Lutheran.
I asked earlier, if you had decided on which of the Lutheran communions IS the Truth?
The AFLC, the ELCA, or the LCMS?

Peace
James
 
You mentioned that you are leaning towards Lutheran.
I asked earlier, if you had decided on which of the Lutheran communions IS the Truth?
The AFLC, the ELCA, or the LCMS?

Peace
James
I don’t know, I have done enough research yet
 
It’s not about that Protestant services are more “fun”. Its about the Truth, which I don’t believe is in the Catholic Church.
Well I’m sorry to say that I can’t help you there because I disagree with you 100%. You will never find a church that embraces, defends, and even SEEKS the truth more than the Catholic Church does. I think most people who leave for this reason just can’t “hang” and that is their choice. I don’t agree with that choice, but choices like that are not choices I can make for them. As for me, I will die Catholic, enduring all the hardship and nonsense (seemingly) that it has to offer. In the end I suppose that it is better to be a Christian of some sort than believe in nothing at all, or God help you, a Muslim!! Yeah, whatever you do, just don’t go THAT route.

Tracy
 
The thing is, I’ve actually felt much closer to God since my unofficial “conversion”
Hii bibleguy,

I left the Catholic Church when I was 18 because I thought the mass was boring and I was not getting anything out of it. I did not have a close relationship with Jesus either.

Later on in my mid-twenties I started to miss church and so I went to different protestant churches. I did find that I liked the music a their love for Jesus but when they passed around the communion in little plastic cups I knew I could not stay at these churches. You see what was missing was the Eucharist. Jesus is really and truly present when we receive Him! I went back to the mass after many wasted years and tried talking/praying to Jesus when I received Him. It brought tears to my eyes and the more I did this my relationship with Him became closer.

I did not have very good teaching in my Catholic school so I did not know much about the teachings of the Church or what was actually happening in the mass! and I know that this is still true in many Catholic schools today. So I studied and learned all I could about my faith. I could not believe all there was to know about the Church.

Can I suggest that you not only study the scriptures but study all about Catholicism? I think a good start would be to go back to the very early Church fathers in the first centuries of the Church. Some of them actually lived right after the apostles and some knew them. You will find that the mass then had all the same parts in it as it does today! It was the re- entering into the once and for all sacrifice of Jesus on Calvary. Have you ever read the book of Acts. It is all about the beginning of the Catholic Church and how the apostles were the first bishops and the first to evangelize.

Have you tried going into a Eucharistic Adoration chapel at night when you can be all alone with Jesus. I cannot describe how much closer you will feel to Him when you do this. Just sit/kneel quietly and thoughts will come and you will want to just be/talk with Him.

If you are having doubts about the teachings of the Church or the Churches authority maybe these scriptures by Jesus will make a difference. Keep in mind that Jesus’ audience is the apostles and He is talking to them in these verses.

“And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock’ I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

John 20 21-23 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me so I send you,” And when he said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any they are retained.”

John16 12 “I have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.”

You see the Church is always being guided by the Holy Spirit in all of the teachings.

Also this from Peter 2
Peter 1 20-21 “First of all you must understand this, that not prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”
 
Originally Posted by JRKH
You mentioned that you are leaning towards Lutheran.
I asked earlier, if you had decided on which of the Lutheran communions IS the Truth?
The AFLC, the ELCA, or the LCMS?
I see.
Well let me ask you this then.
Are you sure you’ve done enough research on the Catholic Church to risk your eternal soul by rejecting her??
I don’t mean to sound alarmist. That is not my intent.
But you seem sincere and I want to be sure that you have thought this thing through.

You believe that you have found where Truth is NOT, but you don’t yet know where Truth IS.
Do you know what Truth is, and so are looking for a place that teaches this Truth?

My experience, along with many others who have left the Church for a number of years and come back, (for me it was 35 years) is that there is no faith tradition without it’s flaws, it’s sinful individuals etc. It’s teachings that are difficult to understand or to accept.

So - to get back to your original question about how to talk to your parents.
I’d say either wait until you know which faith tradition you are interested in (that way you can do a comparison with them) or to go ahead and talk to them about what you see as in error in the Catholic Church.

Either way, I’d suggest that, as you do your research into the different Lutheran communions, you do a comparative study of each tenet of faith. Where it came from, how long it has been held as a belief, whether the tenet is a dogmatic teaching or not, whether the the tenet is a “practice” or not etc.

Peace
James
 
I think he is asking what truths do you see in other religions, like Lutheranism that are not also in Catholicism. (Good question. I’m interested to see this answer.)

Tracy
Oh, well the biggest ones I suppose are the infallibility of the pope, who is a mere man like you and me. Also, the “three-legged stool” analogy that says the Magisterium and tradition are equally as important as the very Word of God Himself?!? Sounds like blasphemy to me…
EDIT: Also that we are saved by faith alone, which is clearly stated in the Holy Bible.
 
EDIT: Also that we are saved by faith alone, which is clearly stated in the Holy Bible.
Where is this clearly stated in the Bible as you have phrased it?

… The only place “faith” and “alone” are found together in the Bible is in James. 😉
 
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