Help us, Pope Benedict 16th! We are a sick church!

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stmaria said:
I am slightly younger than you are. A couple of years from 60 and in my opinion you are in denial. I can remember when my uncle missed Mass because he was traveling. He called my parents and told them to go" wake up the priest." He was coming to make a confession! That’s how it was back then. You may call it fear, I calll it love for God and His Church. The Sunday and Holy day obligations were never missed. Confession was once a week. Does that happen now? Mass is less that half full on Holy days. The confessionals are empty. Belief in the Real Presence is 30%. Something has happened.
I can remember that on every Feast of Christ the King every major city in the world had a procession. In my city every Catholic school and Church gathered downtown. The streets were all blocked off. At least 30-40,000 Catholics marched with banners declaring, “Christ is King”. Surely you can remember that. I don’t see that happening now.
The Church is in a crises and people like you either don’t know it or refuse to acknowledge it. If things continue the way they are there won’t be any priests in 20 years. They will disappear just like the nuns. You and I won’t be on this earth much longer. It will be these young “whipper snappers” that will have to carry on the Traditions that our generation failed to fight for.
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I can say that I had many family members in the “religious orders”…including priests and nuns. Six nuns in the family, all told us what it was like in the convent. Much of what they told us would make your skin crawl. Several left the convent, worked in the secular world, never married and were wonderful women. We had four priests in the family and three more who went be priests, returned home before the final vows. I went to Catholic school for 12 years, never missed Mass on purpose.

Now, the reasons are there are no longer the number of nuns of long ago are many. One HUGE reason is that the nuns, YES, MANY, were abused by superior nuns. There was fear everywhere for many years. Fear of nuns, priests and of God. Some fear is good, it keeps us on the straight and narrow, but when we find ourselves acting out of fear most of the time, it is not good. My nun cousin argrees with me that she did not know her religion, she was taught the “rules” of the church, the Ten Commandments, the Baltimore Catechism was memorized. As a nun she could not ask questions of her religion lest she be chastized. She was afraid to leave the convent because her parents wanted her to be a nun and pushed her in that direction. At 70 she is still a nun, living in an apartment and teaching in a Catholic school.

Have you not noticed or read that there are now more young women choosing to join the convents?? I believe that it took a house cleaning, revamping, to get women back into the convents. I believe that our “sick” church will come on strong and well when the “house is clean” again. Vatican ll was the beginning and soon, within a few years, we will see what was truly meant to be God’s church on earth. By the way, we have more young men studying for the priesthood in our state Diocese than in many years…NO, we are Not dying, we are only beginning to “live”!!

Love and peace,
Mom of 5
 
SemperFidelis said:
I didn’t mean any of my post to offend you, and I never meant it as an accusation of any kind. I just wanted to honestly know if you “condoned” any of the actions in the pictures, and I’m glad that you don’t. I am sorry I offended you with my seemingly innocent question. Also, it is quite imprudent to say I “argue nonsense” when all I did was ask a question and especially when most on the forum have found that I am quite knowledgeable and helpful.
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I guess some things are a one way street…
 
Do not be deceived folks—what we have encountered is non other than what Pope Benedict then Card. has touched on in the following. For many many years – decades actually — young and old have been “innoculated” with an aversion to not only the TLM — but also to the pre-counciliar Church. This is reflected by the disdain they hold towards the pre–Vat II Church. “Innoculate” them long enough—they will believe the pre–Vat II Church was sick.

latinmassjax.org/augustnewsletter.htm

“However, whether the Holy See “will once again worldwide and without limit authorize” the old rite as you wish it and have heard through rumor may happen, cannot be simply said or entirely confirmed. One must always reckon with the fact that too many Catholics have been **inoculated for years with an aversion to **the traditional liturgy, which they disdainfully call “pre-conciliar” and likewise with considerable opposition on the part of many bishops against a general reauthorization [of the old rite]”.
 
Walking_Home said:
Do not be deceived folks—what we have encountered is non other than what Pope Benedict then Card. has touched on in the following. For many many years – decades actually — young and old have been “innoculated” with an aversion to not only the TLM — but also to the pre-counciliar Church. This is reflected by the disdain they hold towards the pre–Vat II Church. “Innoculate” them long enough—they will believe the pre–Vat II Church was sick.

latinmassjax.org/augustnewsletter.htm

“However, whether the Holy See “will once again worldwide and without limit authorize” the old rite as you wish it and have heard through rumor may happen, cannot be simply said or entirely confirmed. One must always reckon with the fact that too many Catholics have been **inoculated for years with an aversion to **the traditional liturgy, which they disdainfully call “pre-conciliar” and likewise with considerable opposition on the part of many bishops against a general reauthorization [of the old rite]”.
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Sad. Very sad. But unfortunately true.
 
I am going to probably upset a few people on both sides of this issue. The pre-Vatican II Church was neither perfect nor always “user friendly.” On the other hand it was not what I would call sick.

The hierarchy in the members of the Church was very well defined with little overlap of Religious, Clergy, and Laity. Laity like ourselves who are active in todays Church would have been told that they were being allowed to share a small part of the work of the clergy. Lay instructors for converts, children, or teens were rare as “hen’s teeth.” Of course there were some like the Sheed et. al. but by and large most lay people attended Mass and Devotions and that was it except for private prayer.

There were indeed situations where pastors and religious superiors abused their authority, but certainly not the majority of them. If there was sexual abuse of minors we never heard about it and I suspect that for the clergy it was much more rare than after the Council.

While I dislike the abuses going on in the liturgy today, for the most part my feeling is that I am much happier with the atmosphere in many of today’s parishes. The Joan of Arc’s and such of the Diocese of Minneapolis are relatively few when compared to the number of good faithful parishes in the diocese.

I also recall the kind of fear that Mom of 5 talks about. For a number of us who accepted as gospel truth all that sister said, God was up there in heaven just waiting to plunge us into the abyss if we screwed up. Its difficult to relate to God’s love and not sin because you love Him back rather than not sinning as best you can out of petrifying fear. Despite that my memories and experiences with “the Sisters” and priests both before and after Vatican II have been overwhelmingly positive. I can’t say the same for some Bishops.

I don’t have a whole lot of years left, but my experience of the Church, Priests, Religious, Mass, etc. has been so much more positive than it was before. There were things I still recall fondly, being an altar boy with cassock and surplus for 14 years serving at Mass and Benediction. Some of the most beautiful hymns and singing I have ever experienced. I espouse a combination of Latin and Vernacular as otherwise we do indeed lose some of our heritage. Why does it need to be only one or the other?

Today I count three retired priests and an 87 year old Sister as close friends. They are not perfect, but they love God and still do his work in retirement. Like many of us they strive for perfection and trust the merits of Jesus earned on the cross to heal the gaps.

My opinion, and that is all it is, is that there is an immense amount of negativity among those who inhabit these forums.
 
Mom_of_5 said:
I can say that I had many family members in the “religious orders”…including priests and nuns. Six nuns in the family, all told us what it was like in the convent. Much of what they told us would make your skin crawl. Several left the convent, worked in the secular world, never married and were wonderful women. We had four priests in the family and three more who went be priests, returned home before the final vows. I went to Catholic school for 12 years, never missed Mass on purpose.

**Now, the reasons are there are no longer the number of nuns of long ago are many. One HUGE reason is that the nuns, YES, MANY, were abused by superior nuns. There was fear everywhere for many years. Fear of nuns, priests and of God. Some fear is good, it keeps us on the straight and narrow, but when we find ourselves acting out of fear most of the time, it is not good. My nun cousin argrees with me that she did not know her religion, she was taught the “rules” of the church, the Ten Commandments, the Baltimore Catechism was memorized. As a nun she could not ask questions of her religion lest she be chastized. She was afraid to leave the convent because her parents wanted her to be a nun and pushed her in that direction. At 70 she is still a nun, living in an apartment and teaching in a Catholic school. **

Have you not noticed or read that there are now more young women choosing to join the convents?? I believe that it took a house cleaning, revamping, to get women back into the convents. I believe that our “sick” church will come on strong and well when the “house is clean” again. Vatican ll was the beginning and soon, within a few years, we will see what was truly meant to be God’s church on earth. By the way, we have more young men studying for the priesthood in our state Diocese than in many years…NO, we are Not dying, we are only beginning to “live”!!

Love and peace,
Mom of 5
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And here I thought that Maria Monk was long gone. Tell me, did your sisters have to lick crosses on the floor in front of the Superior, or lick the bottoms of her shoes? Maybe they were the ones who had to have sex with the Priests because he the embodiment of the Holy Spirit and she the Bride of Christ were supposed to have sex. Or perhaps one of them found the lime pits in the cellar where they disposed of the infants that resulted from these unions. Or maybe, one of your sisters got thrown into the pit that the others marched around 24 hours a day sprinkling Holy Water until she died of starvation or was locked in the cells until she signed over all property to the Church.

Which one was she?
 
brotherhrolf said:
Yes, it is indeed true that none of us knew what was going on in Mass back then. I can remember kneeling there and saying decade after decade of the rosary…not! If I had a nickle for every time I’ve heard this, I’d be a wealthy man. By the time we were in second grade and made our First Communions we had gotten pretty good at reading. My mother showed me how to use my missal and I can see her finger pointing to the rubrics and to the words in Latin as they were said. I don’t believe my experience was anywhere near unique.

Scripture? I went to a Catholic boy’s high school from 8 - 12th grade. This was before 1970 btw. Seems to me I can recall having the Plan of Salvation laid out before me and readings from the (gasp!) Bible as part of nightly assignments for religion class.

Fear of God? You betcha! I’ll plead guilty to that. I have a conscience (or as was explained to me in religion class in 8th grade by Brother Eugene [God rest his soul] “con scientia” - with knowledge) and I thank God for the good nuns, brothers, and priests who taught me.

Priests? I was an altar boy from fourth grade to my senior year in high school. The majority of priests back then (as now) were men of God. Do you have any idea of how many 6 am Masses I served with just me and Father in attendance? Fr. was a young chaplain in WWII and parachuted with the troops into Normandy in 1944. He encouraged my life-long love of history. I believe you paint with too broad a stroke.

Nuns? What an influence on me. Starting with being sent to the principal’s office when I did well in arithmetic. No, all we want to believe is that old caricature of sister standing there with a yardstick. We don’t ever see Sister giving out holy cards for good grades in math - or that those cards are still in one’s 1962 St. Joseph’s missal. Or the nun who took you aside and told you it was OK to be a nerd and not an athelete.

Or 25 years later to encounter one of those nuns (from the convent of your new parish years ago where you served as an altar boy) years later when you both sang in the choir and she acts “in persona Christi” when you are troubled.

I was one of those who was quite happy with HMC as it was in the late 60s. If everything is so hunky-dory today, why have I driven 25 miles (one way) since 1983 so that I can attend a reverent NO?
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Almost every post on this Traditional Catholicism Section is a complaint about how good the TLM is and how terrible the NO is.

But this post is by far one of the best I’ve read here.

No disrespect to a Mom of 5 (as my wife is a Mom of 4) but I think these were honest and charitable answers.
 
palmas85 said:
And here I thought that Maria Monk was long gone. Tell me, did your sisters have to lick crosses on the floor in front of the Superior, or lick the bottoms of her shoes? Maybe they were the ones who had to have sex with the Priests because he the embodiment of the Holy Spirit and she the Bride of Christ were supposed to have sex. Or perhaps one of them found the lime pits in the cellar where they disposed of the infants that resulted from these unions. Or maybe, one of your sisters got thrown into the pit that the others marched around 24 hours a day sprinkling Holy Water until she died of starvation or was locked in the cells until she signed over all property to the Church.
Which one was she?
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This diatribe was totally uncalled for. Have some respect for other peoples opinions and thoughts.
 
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SemperFidelis:
Ah, yes, because it is more important to face the men in the pews, than it is to face God.
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SF, this is a pet peeve of mine. Way back when we memorized the Baltimore Catechism the answer to “Where is God?” was “Everywhere.” So which ever way the priest faces, he is facing God.

“Strain out a gnat, swallow a camel.” (Matt 23:24)

John
 
John_Higgins said:
SF, this is a pet peeve of mine. Way back when we memorized the Baltimore Catechism the answer to “Where is God?” was “Everywhere.” So which ever way the priest faces, he is facing God.

“Strain out a gnat, swallow a camel.” (Matt 23:24)

John
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Then it was pointless for the Priests to face East for all of those centuries? Pope Benedict XVI among many others would most definitely disagree with you.
 
rwoehmke said:
This diatribe was totally uncalled for. Have some respect for other peoples opinions and thoughts.
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Oh come now — Mom of 5 comes here --dishes out her disdainful agenda — and you get upset when she gets a dose of her own medicine.
 
Walking_Home said:
Oh come now — Mom of 5 comes here --dishes out her disdainful agenda — and you get upset when she gets a dose of her own medicine.
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It’s like I said earlier: “I guess some things are a one way street…”
 
SemperFidelis said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walking_Home
Oh come now — Mom of 5 comes here --dishes out her disdainful agenda — and you get upset when she gets a dose of her own medicine.

It’s like I said earlier: “I guess some things are a one way street…”
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Looks that way.
 
rwoehmke said:
This diatribe was totally uncalled for. Have some respect for other peoples opinions and thoughts.
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It was rather disgusting, offensive and nasty. It is hardly the “same medice” unless one considers cyanide a medicine.

Perhaps instead of praying for God’s will and then telling Him what His will is, we should submit ourselves to that will regardless. The OP is not so much a prayer as rhetoric. I am reminded of how Jesus taught us to pray and encouraged us to go into our closets. Somehow when prayer takes the form of an attack it seems a little too much like the Pharisee that thanked God he was not as bad as those sinners over there. The posting of the pictures (without reference to what they are, BTW) reminds me of the “over there” part.
 
rwoehmke said:
This diatribe was totally uncalled for. Have some respect for other peoples opinions and thoughts.
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I will quote exactly what the poster wrote
**Six nuns in the family, all told us what it was like in the convent. Much of what they told us would make your skin crawl. **Several left the convent, worked in the secular world, never married and were wonderful women. We had four priests in the family and three more who went be priests, returned home before the final vows. I went to Catholic school for 12 years, never missed Mass on purpose.

Now, the reasons are there are no longer the number of nuns of long ago are many. One HUGE reason is that the nuns, YES, MANY, were abused by superior nuns. **There was fear everywhere for many years. Fear of nuns, priests and of God. **Some fear is good, it keeps us on the straight and narrow, but when we find ourselves acting out of fear most of the time, it is not good. **My nun cousin argrees with me that she did not know her religion, she was taught the “rules” of the church, the Ten Commandments, the Baltimore Catechism was memorized. As a nun she could not ask questions of her religion lest she be chastized. She was afraid to leave the convent because her parents wanted her to be a nun and pushed her in that direction. **

Since this person alleges that the convents were cesspools of violence, fear, intimidation, ignorance and abuse, I felt it was in order to point out that these allegations have been made since the 1840s at least and they are still making them. Maria Monks book caused riots when it came out and many anti Catholics stil quote from it at length, although changing the wording so it looks modern.

It wasn’t true then and it isn’t true now. I know it, you know it and I’m pretty sure the poster knows it as well. Her post was an attempt to rationalize the virtual disappearance of Nuns in the western world by saying the religious orders needed to be abolished anyway. Just like our good friend Maria Monk did.👍

.
 
palmas85 said:
I will quote exactly what the poster wrote
**Six nuns in the family, all told us what it was like in the convent. Much of what they told us would make your skin crawl. **Several left the convent, worked in the secular world, never married and were wonderful women. We had four priests in the family and three more who went be priests, returned home before the final vows. I went to Catholic school for 12 years, never missed Mass on purpose.

Now, the reasons are there are no longer the number of nuns of long ago are many. One HUGE reason is that the nuns, YES, MANY, were abused by superior nuns. **There was fear everywhere for many years. Fear of nuns, priests and of God. **Some fear is good, it keeps us on the straight and narrow, but when we find ourselves acting out of fear most of the time, it is not good. **My nun cousin argrees with me that she did not know her religion, she was taught the “rules” of the church, the Ten Commandments, the Baltimore Catechism was memorized. As a nun she could not ask questions of her religion lest she be chastized. She was afraid to leave the convent because her parents wanted her to be a nun and pushed her in that direction. **

Since this person alleges that the convents were cesspools of violence, fear, intimidation, ignorance and abuse, I felt it was in order to point out that these allegations have been made since the 1840s at least and they are still making them. Maria Monks book caused riots when it came out and many anti Catholics stil quote from it at length, although changing the wording so it looks modern.

It wasn’t true then and it isn’t true now. I know it, you know it and I’m pretty sure the poster knows it as well. Her post was an attempt to rationalize the virtual disappearance of Nuns in the western world by saying the religious orders needed to be abolished anyway. Just like our good friend Maria Monk did.👍

.
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Not only that, I asked a simple question wanting to know her beliefs on something and got a “you’re disgusting,” “you argue nonsense,” etc. Ah, whatever. I’ve got much too thick of skin to continue on with this.
 
palmas85 said:
And here I thought that Maria Monk was long gone. Tell me, did your sisters have to lick crosses on the floor in front of the Superior, or lick the bottoms of her shoes? Maybe they were the ones who had to have sex with the Priests because he the embodiment of the Holy Spirit and she the Bride of Christ were supposed to have sex. Or perhaps one of them found the lime pits in the cellar where they disposed of the infants that resulted from these unions. Or maybe, one of your sisters got thrown into the pit that the others marched around 24 hours a day sprinkling Holy Water until she died of starvation or was locked in the cells until she signed over all property to the Church.

Which one was she?
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you’re a bit sick buddy.
 
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