Help us, Pope Benedict 16th! We are a sick church!

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It’s like I said earlier: “I guess some things are a one way street…”
yeah, you got to be tough with those old women.

This is why peope get scared off from many TLM Catholics, or all people who belong to hardline conservative sects. While this is a generalization and not a rule, it seems like there is just a ton of anger, agression, being nasty, a blind self rightousness.
 
yeah, you got to be tough with those old women.

This is why peope get scared off from many TLM Catholics, or all people who belong to hardline conservative sects. While this is a generalization and not a rule, it seems like there is just a ton of anger, agression, being nasty, a blind self rightousness.

And being old is now an excuse for obvious bigotrous disdain for the pre-Vat II Church.
 

And being old is now an excuse for obvious bigotrous disdain for the pre-Vat II Church.
biggotry?

She told you abour her experience, many people beleive Vatican II brought about vital reforms, and had very bad experiences in the Church before Vatican II.
 
biggotry?

She told you abour her experience, many people beleive Vatican II brought about vital reforms, and had very bad experiences in the Church before Vatican II.

There is much more embedded within her words. If you can’t see it — you may have had a dose of “inoculation” yourself.
 

There is much more embedded within her words. If you can’t see it — you may have had a dose of “inoculation” yourself.
More likely it is just better to err on the side of not being judgemental about the person, especially when we read past what was posted and try to determine the character of another. We all must fight the temptation to go beyond the content and get personal. “Bigotry” only has meaning in the context of a bigot and is a personal attack.
 

See post 42.
ok, so, you say being old isin’t an excuse for biggotry, I ask how what she said had biggotry in it, you say if I can’t see what was imbedded I might need to be inoculated, I ask what was imbedded, you refer me back to the first post where you claim there was biggotry.

Circles can be fun, but I prefer not to on around on them without end:p
 
More likely it is just better to err on the side of not being judgemental about the person, especially when we read past what was posted and try to determine the character of another. We all must fight the temptation to go beyond the content and get personal. “Bigotry” only has meaning in the context of a bigot and is a personal attack.

My discussions are based on what is stated. If what is stated is such — it will be called for what it is.
 

My discussions are based on what is stated. If what is stated is such — it will be called for what it is.
very clarifying.

Look, if you don’t want to give a clear answer, or back up your claims, just say so.
 
yeah, you got to be tough with those old women.
I know, I’m just a big, bad, conservative and am picking on those who aren’t because I perceive them as lesser beings. [/sarcasm] Read the whole string of posts before you make off-the-wall and ludicrous comments, and walk away before you embarass yourself more than you already have.
 
you’re a bit sick buddy.
Not sick at all my friend. The poster in question rather viciously and vehemently attacked the whole institution of religious life for women. It was obvious that she has an agenda. I was silent after Vatican II when the progressives and modernists and anti-Catholic forces had their way and rammed whatever they wanted down our throats and most people in the interest of charity, obedience and above all ecumenism did absolutely nothing. I stood by in obedience and saw what happened to the Church.

I saw Marian devotion almost disappear. Ditto for Eucharistc Adoration. I saw the Mass in many instances go from the re-presentation of the supreme sacrifice at Calvary to a three ring circus. I saw people blatantly strut heresies and loathsome lifestyles into the Church and all was quickly accepted by charitable folks who didn’t want to hurt anybodies feelings. I saw more abuses than I care to remember or even think about.

Do you know why i decided to become a catechist? One of my co-workers was converting and was telling me about the RCIA program. They had a very progressive program in his parish. Let me tell you a few of the gems he was being taught.

Christs death was not salvific in nature, it was mere martyrdom.
There was no virgin birth. This was made up to satisfy the Jewish requirement that the Messiah be born of a virgin.
The Catholic Church is a European based religion that is slowly coming to terms that it is not exclusive.
Prayers to the four cardinal winds are acceptable in the Mass.
A gay lifestyle, if monogamous is to be admired as it shows maturity and concern for others. It is fully in sync with Christs teachings as it exalts the dignity of man.
The Eucharist itself is salvific in nature so it is perfectly acceptable and indeed advisable to receive at all times.

I will not ever be silent again.

Incidentally, I will point you to a link where many people who loathe the Catholic Church get some of their information. remnantofgod.org/

Be sure to read Sister Charlottes testimony. Sister Charlotte is ex-nun who escaped the Convent by scaling a fence.👍 Most of it is a verbatim recycling of Maria Monks book. If you read the posters expose of pre-Vatican II convent life you will see the similarity.

Hope you enjoy the read.
 
Incidentally, I will point you to a link where many people who loathe the Catholic Church get some of their information. remnantofgod.org/
This website one of the sickest things I’ve seen in a long while. I had no idea people actually believed this kind of thing!
My stomach is turning…
 
Fear is certainly needed. We are to “work out our Salvation in fear and trembling”. The road to Paradise is narrow, to eternal damnation broad. We all better fear lest we be lost. The Novus Ordo preaches we’re pretty much all saved, so all the Novus Ordo people think they are going to heaven, since the road is narrow to to Paradise many will be lost who believe otherwise. Presumption is a sin, I’d rather fear now and be saved later, then get cocky know, and end up…well you know…God Bless You all…Pray for me a sinner…Remember what Pope Paul VI said…“The smoke of SATAN has entered the Church” right fter Vatican II and all it’s do whatever you want “rules”…he certainly was right then and there is now a raging inferno in Rome…God help us all…
 
The Novus Ordo preaches we’re pretty much all saved, so all the Novus Ordo people think they are going to heaven, …
This is simply untrue and an illogical leap. The current Mass does not teach all are saved, but one can still know they are in a state of grace and therefore going to heaven. It does not mean one will always be in the state of grace, though and that is where fear (as in a healthy respect) becomes necessary.
 
No but it is certainly implied in the Novus Ordo…since they don’t want to “scare anyone”. They even removed almost or perhaps all prayers during Mass which warn of eternal damnation…don’t wanna scare anyone. Pope Benedict has also stated that all religions be they Hindu Islam Jew or whatever can be saved by their own volition…patently false…Both sides of this debate that can “prove” they are right by pointing out others teachings. Novus Ordo new masses point to the infallibility of the Pope and how Christ will be with it to the end of time to '"prove " us Traditionalists wrong. We point to prior teachings which are infallible and point out how the new Mass and Popes disobey them…I say that Christ foresaw all these troubles coming and pointed out that “BY THEIR FRUITS YOU WILL KNOW THEM”…The fruits of the second Vatican Council are all rancid…Empty churches, sacrilege, no reverence by the parishoners , priests, bishops et al. Popes kissing the Koran, praying with Jews for the coming of the Messiah, No more kneeling, civilians handing out the “body of Christ”, Clown masses , acrobat masses Kool Aid instead of wine, bagels being consecrated, Deviant sexual predators running wild in the seminaries, Bishops covering up for it, transferring the pedophiles instead of excommunicating them and turning them over to civil authorities for prosecution. The Pope doesn’t excommunicate the guilty pedophile bishops, oh no, he transfers or rewards them. No excommunications. Archbishop Lefevre he gets excommunicated…Dominus Vobiscum… Indulgentiam, absolutionem, et remissionem peccatorum nostrorum, tribuat nobis omnipotens et misericors Dominus, Amen
 
Both sides of this debate that can “prove” they are right by pointing out others teachings.
Which is why we must stay close to the Church. It is the only safe way through the storm. Thought the hull may be battered, inside it’s safe and dry. …
I say that Christ foresaw all these troubles coming and pointed out that “BY THEIR FRUITS YOU WILL KNOW THEM”.
Great! Stmaria posted a docuement showing how the ratio of priests to faithful has increased. The same document, from 2003, listed the percentage increases everywhere but Europe which had a a stable number of Catholics. That year there were 15,000,000 new Catholics brought into the Church. I have no problems looking at the fruits of the Church. Not just the numbers of faithful who have joined but the work of charity, being the largest charity organization in the world. I am sure not worried about the few abberations that sedevacantist love to harp on and even lie about.
 
Which is why we must stay close to the Church. It is the only safe way through the storm. Thought the hull may be battered, inside it’s safe and dry. **… Great! Stmaria posted a docuement showing how the ratio of priests to faithful has increased. **The same document, from 2003, listed the percentage increases everywhere but Europe which had a a stable number of Catholics. That year there were 15,000,000 new Catholics brought into the Church. I have no problems looking at the fruits of the Church. Not just the numbers of faithful who have joined but the work of charity, being the largest charity organization in the world. I am sure not worried about the few abberations that sedevacantist love to harp on and even lie about.
No, what I posted shows that the Church is in a state of crises.

SYNOD OF BISHOPS
XI ORDINARY GENERAL ASSEMBLY October 2005
vatican.va/roman_curia/synod/documents/rc_synod_doc_20050707_instrlabor-xi-assembly_en.html

, from 1978 to 2003, in the number of Catholics in relation to the number of priests, that is, one priest for every 1,797 Catholics in 1978 to one priest for every 2,677 Catholics in 2003. The situation is quite diverse from continent to continent. For example, in Europe, there is one priest for every 1,386 Catholics; in Africa, one for every 4,723 Catholics; in America, one for every 4,453; in Asia, one for every 2,407; and in Oceania, one for every 1,746.7 In the same period, the permanent deaconate also witnessed a strong development with the overall number of deacons multiplying over 15 times or having a relative increase of 466.7%.
…in the majority of countries in Europe, America and Oceania. In some cases, the percentage of those who participate at Sunday Mass is as** low as 5%**. 7.….In many countries, persons have lost, or are gradually losing, an awareness that conversion is necessary for receiving the Eucharist. Its connection with the Sacrament of Penance is not always understood, e.g., the necessity of being in the state of grace before receiving Holy Communion. As a result, the obligation of confessing mortal sins is forgotten…Certainly, thought needs to be given to the great disproportion between the many who receive Holy Communion and the few who go to confession. The faithful frequently receive Holy Communion, without even thinking that they might be in the state of mortal sin… responses coming from various countries note some deficiencies and shadows in the celebration of the Eucharist on the part of both the clergy and the faithful, which seem to have their origin in a weakened sense of the sacred in the Sacrament
Certain actions which challenge a sense of the sacred, often mentioned in the Lineamenta responses, can be of assistance in treating the subject, for example, a neglect by the celebrant and the ministers to use proper liturgical vestments and the participants’ lack of befitting dress for Mass; the use of profane music in Church; the tacit consent to eliminate certain liturgical gestures thought to be too traditional, such as genuflexion before the Blessed Sacrament; an inadequate catechesis for Communion in the hand and its improper distribution; a lack of reverence before, during and after the celebration of Holy Mass, . a certain way of acting indicates that transubstantiation and the Real Presence are understood in a symbolic sense only. Many responses noted that some celebrants at the liturgy seem more like showmen, who must draw people’s attention to themselves, instead of servants of Christ, called to conduct the faithful to union with him….It is worth considering whether the removal of the tabernacle from the centre of the sanctuary to an obscure, undignified corner or to a separate chapel, or whether to have placed the celebrant’s chair in the centre of the sanctuary or in front of the tabernacle—as was done in many renovations of older churches and in new constructions—has contributed in some way to a decrease in faith in the Real Presence.”
 
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