Help? Why do they hate the faith so very much?

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Perhaps it would for devout cradle Catholics, but non-Catholics wouldn’t care - until the time when they might consider becoming Catholic. And semi-Catholics (I don’t know what else to call them) would still ignore it. I’ve been married twice, and I went into both of them completely certain that it would last forever. My first turned out to be an immature child who was clearly not ready for marriage, and my second was a lying, cheating scoundrel.
The Marriage Tribunal would help you to heal from these bad experiences, I think, even if they were not able to give you a Declaration of Nullity. But if you are not married to anyone right now, then this whole thing isn’t even an issue, unless you are planning to marry again at some time in the future.

If you intend to remain single, then you don’t need to worry about any of this stuff.
I don’t mean to be hijacking the thread. 🙂 But I think that the entire marriage/divorce/annulment thing is a barrier for those of us who haven’t grown up Catholic.
It also causes me to hesitate about recommending the Catholic faith to my divorced and remarried friends. But, if they felt the call, then nothing - not even the task of going through the Nullity process - would deter them. And there are very few cases that are actually refused.
 
When speaking with other people about the Catholic faith, all sorts of horrific things come out of their mouths and is posted on many forums. I understand to a reasonable degree when people just do not agree with certain teachings…

However, why does it seem that so many people really, truly hate Catholics and the Catholic faith? I mean really hate–not just dislike…

It is hard to grasp.

Many reasons, including:​

  • bad example of Catholics
  • genuine & supposed past & present evils in Catholicism
  • misunderstanding of Catholic doctrine & practice
  • sincerely held doctrinal differences
  • plain ignorance
  • bigotry
  • inability to understand how anyone could reasonably or sincerely differ from themselves
  • Biblical interpretation
  • maltreatment by Catholic authority figures
  • literature by Catholics that shows a failure to understand what other Christians believe
  • books by former Catholics
  • literature by other Christians containing matter discreditable to Catholicism
  • conspiracy theories
  • the unlovelier parts of the history of Catholicism
  • the prevalence of certain sins regarded as sins not by Catholics but by some of their critics (such as the consumption of alcohol)
  • certain kinds of theology, including Dispensationalism
  • certain features of Catholicism, such as infant baptism, the doctrine of hell, etc.
    • including certain features of Mariology, itself often (not always) criticised as illegitimate in principle
  • rejection of Catholicism as alien to the country’s culture - in the US, it can be seen as “unAmerican”; as bad, because “not Protestant” ( the complaint comes from the time when the USA was above all Most Protestant Nation (with England as the only other contender for the title) & therefore “God’s Own Country”. I’m afraid that England must take a hefty share of the blame for this political Messianism :o
  • fear of the weakening of the US by immigration - this concern has a long history
  • racial pride: the virtuous & godly & hard-working, Bible-reading WASP is pitted against all those feckless, immoral, drunken, & inferior Italians, Slavs, Irish, & similar losers in the fight for life - which brings us to:
  • the impact of certain forms of Darwinism
  • national arrogance
  • insularity - helped by geography & politics
There are sure to be other reasons - some that used to be important have probably given way to others, but may in time return.
 
Gottle: Did you get your list from memory or did you do some research?
 
Thoughtful post, Xyneshia; liked yours too, Earnest. BTW, re the OW quote, do you know the etymology of “person?”

Here’s a consideration that adds a slightyl different slant. I used to attend lectures by a well known metaphysician. He spoke well, with a musical voice, using “notes” from his vocabulary as tools of exact meaning, not pedantry. He dressed impecably, as he said, “out of respect for that which moves me to speak.” Before speaking, he always prayed “May the words of my mouth be acceptable unto You, oh God.” Everyone who came to hear him wore at least semi formal attire, unless it was a specificly casual event.
those who heard him speak, as a group, were bright, intelligent, inquisitive, asked moving questions based on their experience, and respected the answers they were given, which were appropriate to the one asking, never blanket statements of generality. Everyone arrived on time and left quietly. The area of the lecture was always left clean and policed. I was on the verge of being late to one of these lectures once, and walked into a convention area with many meetings going on. I knew exactly where to go because I heard voices that reflected the joyful and meaningful voice of the lecturer. Good works followed him, and once, I walked into a local store, and was greeted with “You attend lectures given by the Doctor, don’t you?” I was stunnedd, as I had never seen this person before in my life. I asked how he knew. He said that those who attended had a particular glow about them.

I have recently been at numerous Catholic services. One would not be able to tell, either by manner, dress, or arrival time that anything of importance was happening. The eyes and the voices were hollow and rote, starting with the priest’s lecture, through the responses of the congregation, to even the reading of the annoncements and the singing. I had no doubt why so many looked half asleep and had difficulty controlling their children. I have no personal knowledge of what good might be done by these folks, but it didn’t appear to me that it would be done with much enthusiasm. (there’s another etymological check to do.)

If you were in my shoes, and had to choose a Way by the evidence of its speaker and listeners, which would you choose? I will not consider answers based on claims of veracity of dogma. The lecturer I speak of was consulted by Jesuit scholars and other people in the Church whom you would recognize, as he had an uncanny ability to resolve their theological and faith based impasses. This was true of teachers from the East as well, some of whom regarded him as the living example of their most profound teachings, as I did of him as regards Christianity.
 
I’m going to respond directly to the OP because no one has given particularly concrete answers as to why some people hate Catholic faith.

Some hate it because of the child-abuse scandal amongst Catholic priests.

Some hate it because they oppose gay marriage, a sincerely offensive position to those who support gay rights. I have to say, right now, this is probably the most prevalent reason non-Christians hate the Catholic faith.

There are numerous other reasons, but these two are the most common. I doubt jealousy is high on the list.
 
I’m going to respond directly to the OP because no one has given particularly concrete answers as to why some people hate Catholic faith.

Some hate it because of the child-abuse scandal amongst Catholic priests.
And yet, no one hates the Boy Scouts, even though they have an even greater problem of pedophilia among their leadership. People still send their kids out for hockey, too, in spite of several high-profile cases of hockey coaches molesting kids. 🤷
Some hate it because they oppose gay marriage, a sincerely offensive position to those who support gay rights. I have to say, right now, this is probably the most prevalent reason non-Christians hate the Catholic faith.
There are lots of Christian denominations that oppose gay marriage, along with Islam, Hinduism, and other family-oriented religions, as well - why pick specifically on the Catholic Church? 🤷
 
Yep, I agree, jmcrae. Goodness or its opposite are not dependent on religion or of any other institution as such.
 
Its quite simple…most profound things are! When the wealthy class in germany invented protestantism…it was because they wanted to plunder the church of all its land,gold and silver ornaments and art work…once doing this they then wrote books detailing how evil the RCC church and always will be and that safeguarded their plunder. In a world run by the elitist class.any established religion that preached…pie in the sky by and by must become the enemy…and numero uno is and always shall be the RCC. America was settled by disgruntled protestants who hated the fact that they had to join a national church when ever they moved from one country to another…thus we have this great land…but the biggest enemy of all is now in the saddle for all to see and fear…or worship if you are cowardly and like to salivate on cue…oh look today it is written 2+2= 5…so be it big brother you know best! …and so the onslaught continues…The Passover Plot,last temptation of Jesus,DaVinci code etc etc…all well heeled,organized and financed to destroy Mans belief in the hereafter…destroy His belief and he becomes a consumer…and that boys and girls are what our ruling class thinks we are…nothing but consumers…o wow…heres another catalog in the mail…look at all these gadgets…I want that,and that and…
 
jmcrae, I didn’t say the reasons were fair, and attacking the logic behind them on a Catholic forum probably isn’t going to sway anyone who holds those prejudices.

That said, the boyscouts, Islam, Hinduism, and “other family-oriented religions” don’t have the influence in this country to push their agenda via public policy the way the Catholic Church does. Perhaps that’s why they don’t raise as much ire.
 
That said, the boyscouts, Islam, Hinduism, and “other family-oriented religions” don’t have the influence in this country to push their agenda via public policy the way the Catholic Church does. Perhaps that’s why they don’t raise as much ire.
Not wanting to take this thread off-topic I have started a thread in Social Justice to challenge your claim that Catholicism has influence in the U.S. to ‘push their agenda’ via public policy:

Catholicism influencing U.S. public policy

Please feel free to respond to my challenge there, should you wish to continue the discussion.
 
Its quite simple…most profound things are! When the wealthy class in germany invented protestantism…it was because they wanted to plunder the church of all its land,gold and silver ornaments and art work…once doing this they then wrote books detailing how evil the RCC church and always will be and that safeguarded their plunder. In a world run by the elitist class.any established religion that preached…pie in the sky by and by must become the enemy…and numero uno is and always shall be the RCC. America was settled by disgruntled protestants who hated the fact that they had to join a national church when ever they moved from one country to another…thus we have this great land…but the biggest enemy of all is now in the saddle for all to see and fear…or worship if you are cowardly and like to salivate on cue…oh look today it is written 2+2= 5…so be it big brother you know best! …and so the onslaught continues…The Passover Plot,last temptation of Jesus,DaVinci code etc etc…all well heeled,organized and financed to destroy Mans belief in the hereafter…destroy His belief and he becomes a consumer…and that boys and girls are what our ruling class thinks we are…nothing but consumers…o wow…heres another catalog in the mail…look at all these gadgets…I want that,and that and…
Nino: When we take our baptismal vows, the second vow we take is: “Do you reject the glamour of evil and refuse to be mastered by sin?” Reply: “I do.” The point of this vow is for us to recognize that evil is attractive and seductive. Then we acknowledge that if we submit to evil we will become its servant and evil will be our master; we will willingly give up our freedom and bind ourselves to death. Instead, we choose God’s freedom and refuse to be servants of evil.
 
Aside from those who hate the Church not for what She is but for what they *think *She is…

Fear.

Fear that the Church is right and that they are living bad lives, and fear bringing to the fore that internal struggle between their conscience and their concupiscence, which are like those cartoon devils and angels on someone’s shoulders.

The problem is that the Church at Her best clarifies the boundaries that God set on our behavior. Some of those boundaries we accept, like only being married to one person, but some we do not, like only being married to one person till death.

Conversion would require that they admit that they were wrong, that they would change not just their lives, but their idea of reality.

I believe that there were times in my life when this would have been impossible for me to do, but God led me very gently back to His Church. In that process, and in the continuing process of conversion since then, there have been times when I had to struggle between what I wanted to hold on to and what I was learning I needed to do.

But like rebellious teens who do not accept that their parents are really trying to look out for them and instead reject the restrictions their parents’ care puts on them, we kick and fight and scratch against the physical manifestation of God’s care for each of us.
 
I’ve read this last post by St. Francis over and over again, and just feel that a clarification is in order. But first, I think that it is wonderful that you and those like you have found something that is meeting your needs for a relationship with God. This is well, good, and necessary in the order of things.

You also need to know, in all justice, that there are those who leave the Church who do so in good conscience within themselves and for good reason according to their best lights. Not everyone, perhaps, and there may be those who fit your discription on here of fear and hate. But those are the animal emotions of negativity and may not apply to all whom you look at and deem to be “against” the Church. What if we are for something that the Church hasn’t given us?

That was so, at least in my case and the cases of many that I know. We have no ax to grind with the Church as you know it, but it is insufficient, as a belief system, for our particular needs. And that is not from a misunderstanding of what we allegedly think the Church is, or because we want to go and do our own thing, or have an excuse to “sin.” Sorry, that doesn’t wash in this case.

And as for something that would “change not just their lives, but their idea of reality,” it is precisely an unexpected, sudden, and necessary change in that idea that eventually led me to leave the Church. The Church just doesn’t cover, to the best of my ability to find it, the dynamic of my experience. I had to go elsewhere. But I was supremely fortunate. I found a system of understanding that has proven over the last thirty odd years to be increasingly useful and practical in explicating the dynamics of experience, including the Church’s view. In fact, it has over time led me to somewhat of a reconciliation with the Church, though on a radically different footing.

So this is simply to request the kind of honesty that regards the life experience of some, who are no longer Catholic in the religious sense, with other than an attitude that we hate or fear the Church. Neither of those is loving, and both of those are immature. They may yet apply to some, I don’t know. I am only speaking on behalf of myself and those who left as a necessary result of conscience, however contradictory that might seem to the pious faithful of Catholicsm.

In this regard I feel it also necessary to point out that there is as well a seeming fear and arrogance inherent in the unquestioned attitudes of those who claim that Catholicism is the bigger picture when they are faced with the opportunity to look at the contexts and roots of Catholicism in other than a pious exegesis. If such simple faith as you have is sufficient for you, well and good. But that is not reason to vilify those who have been blessed with the need to know beyond simple faith.

Some of us are in the position of the monk seeking enlightenment who saw the joyous family living their happy life on the river bank. They were satisfied and happy, and they thought they knew, and that was enough for them. But some have experiences that force them into a deeper inquiry, one that is not supported by the dynamics and dogmas of the Church. It may be useful to know that I say that as a very well catechized and formerly zealous missionary minded Catholic. As such I tried my best within the clergy and literature of the Church to discover a fitting solution. Such was not only not forthcoming, but I was discouraged by many clerics in my inquiry. It became clear that this discouragement was not stemming from any teaching of the Church, but from the embarrasment of its representative’s inadequacy based on those in dealing with my questions.

So as I said on another thread "I’m sure that it is wonderful to have the simplicity of that kind of security that is engendered by simple belief. Some of us are not that fortunate. We are engendered with a curiosity that forces us to make demands of ourselves to take the risks of perception necessary to explore the bit of infinitude of this astonishing creation while we have the brief chance of this little short life on Earth.

God made this astonishing Unverse and it is His art work. For me as an artist I believe it would be a slap in the face, a refusual of an infinite gift, to not explore the glory of posssibiity inherent in the phenomenon of the world not only around us, but in us and as us. We cannot be separate from the wonders of this creation, and to know it as thoroughly as we can is to know ourselves and God as well. It says in may places, times, and many ways “Gnothi Seauton.” “Know ThySelf.” This is not a frivoulous injunction.

If God is the root of creation and of conscious awareness, then I will, like a child learning to walk, make my tiny steps and take my tiny falls. I will refuse to give up my right to fail, and will stumble on the landscape of life and maybe die from my bleeding and bruises. But I will know where the rocks are, and the cool grasses and the fresh ponds and the lovely trees. I will have met sages and sabre tooth tigers and taken my stripes from each. I will fall exhausted at heavens gate, laughing, whooping, crying, yelling “What a ride! Thank you, thank you, thank you.!”

I will go where I have earned to go and be what I have earned to be. But I will go there and be that in good conscience and having faced the encounter offered to me by this exhorbitantly generous gift of possibility with energy, curiosity, and a willingness to make my errors and learn from them. I will give back as best possible the gift of appreciation for the bit of infinitude that was mine to make use of and learn from.

Heaven, as I understand it, is the feeling of Unity with God. Hell is the feeling of separation. I wish to know God as His Creation as thoroughly as possible and never have to say I didn’t try when I had the chance. Will God fault me for making my best effort by my best conscience?"

 
Detales
you have found something that is meeting your needs for a relationship with God.
“Meeting your needs”??? Sound like something from one of those gushy Oprah programs.
, that there are those who leave the Church who do so in good conscience
Um…not according to classic theology. Which would put the blame squarely on sin.
but it is insufficient, as a belief system, for our particular need
There’s that gushy Oprah “need” thing again, not to mention the idea that the Catholic church, which one billion people in this world adhere to, is “insufficient” for wonders of you. (gentle smile).,
when they are faced with the opportunity to look at the contexts and roots of Catholicism
Oh no…you’re not going to bring up Harpur again are you? I am still laughing at that one. The man barely qualifies as tabloid trash reading. And I’ve been studying the roots and contexts of Catholicism for a very long time and challenge you to cough up anything I can’t squash like a bug.
Some of us are in the position of the monk seeking enlightenment who saw the joyous family living their happy life on the river bank.
:confused: Me: chocking laughter.
as a very well catechized and formerly zealous missionary minded Catholic.
Please. I am laughing so hard I am gasping. You were so well catechized you could read Harpur …!!!
m sure that it is wonderful to have the simplicity of that kind of security that is engendered by simple belief.
Why yes, our simple, dim beliefs clung to by the mentally incompetent. Let me wipe the tears of laughter from my face.
It became clear that this discouragement was not stemming from any teaching of the Church, but from the embarrasment of its representative’s inadequacy based on those in dealing with my questions.
I’m becoming hysterical now I’m laughing so hard. Why, Detales, I’ve forgotten how much I enjoyed hearing from you. Please, please reply. Please.

May God bless you with a million miracles, Annem
 
I hardly feel that the persnality of a speaker on Truth is that important…one goes to hear the message not to be entertained…Billy Sunday used to jump onto the stage and take a slide as in running,a large group of followers of such a performer were enchanted enough to commit suicide…women and children included…these are what are called cults! We had such an evil man posing as a chaplain in the catholic (small C)high school I taught at…his mission was to destroy the school…brought in a new program that eliminated the dress code,attendance in classes,no personal cleanups at cafeteria,a discovery program that questioned all aspects of faith…and he was handsome and charming…a svengali…also was in the process of doing other very immoral acts…a great speaker etc etc…I notice the comment on the tired parents bringing their kids…that received no compliment I see…as to the Jesuits,I refer anyone to pick up a copy of America mag.theirs and try and find the RCC faith in any issue! The RCC is hated because it and it alone has stood between empty promises and an earthly paradise…the RCC is 2000 years old and stands alone on issues that in this nation one is called a ‘hater’ if one opposed them…The Rev.Pat Robertson was such a charmer till he was ordered to endorse former Mayor Guiliani for president,this was such an outlandish position to take it stunned his blind followers…none are so blind as those who will not see…
 
Wow. How profound and insightful is that? Thanks for yet another verification of my wise decision.

Bindar Doondat.
 
Wow. How profound and insightful is that? Thanks for yet another verification of my wise decision.
:rolleyes:

You have never said what it was that you were looking for.

Sand paintings? Catholics can do sand paintings - no law prohibits it. You are even allowed to pray while you paint. Smudge ceremonies? The Catholic Church has incense. Ancestor worship? Our ancestors are Saints in Heaven. While we don’t actually worship them, we can certainly pray to them and ask for their assistance. The Bible? The Catholic Church wrote it. Environmentalism? Become a Franciscan.

Again - what could you want, that the Catholic Church does not have? 🤷
 
Anything but the shallow, flip, and dimissive froth you are, despite your intelligence, presenting. You do yourself an injustice, misrepresent your tradition, and do a disservice to what you righfully hold sacred.
 
Anything but the shallow, flip, and dimissive froth you are, despite your intelligence, presenting. You do yourself an injustice, misrepresent your tradition, and do a disservice to what you righfully hold sacred.
Are you thinking that the New Age has nothing but very deep thinkers, then?

But if you want St. Thomas Aquinas, we have him - just because I’m not him, doesn’t mean we don’t have him. 🙂
 
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