Tis_Bearself
Patron
Interesting. I strongly suspect that a lot of Catholics aren’t even familiar with some of the stuff in the OT, much less read it as kids or had their kids read it.
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2towers
Guest
I have to agree. This argument that seems to be going around is that it is ok to let your kids read about lurid sex acts as long as the information is being consumed on MY watch.
Exactly what do these parents think is going to happen? That their kid is going to come forward with questions about the dynamics of group sex, abuse, rape for discussion? Not going to happen unless you sit there and read it with them.
The next point is, “well I don’t want my kid to live in a vacuum.” I understand this point, I really do, but this is where you do pre-teaching. You can explain to them ahead of time in general terms the type of stuff that is out in the world and the type of stuff that is in books, so by they time they ARE exposed, they will be prepared and be able to view and hear this stuff through a better moral lens. People might not think so, but this makes all the difference in the world, seriously.
Another common fear here is that, well if they aren’t exposed to this “real world stuff,” in high school [or at summer camp, which is how my parents did it, with tragic results] When they get to college or out in the big world they will be naive and vulnerable.
No, not if you have planned for this ahead of time. By the time they go to college, and they have been exposed to morals, they WILL be prepared, without having to have direct exposure to it before hand. They DO NOT have to read about sexual depravity first hand to know that it exists, what is out there and how to avoid it, what it can do to you.
I know that even with all the moral preparation in the world, things might or will happen when they leave your roof. With the proper grounding and education from YOU, and the church hopefully, such experiences don’t have to own them. I hope all of this makes sense.
I apologize to the folks that think differently. There is no perfect formula, and most people parent the very best way they know how, and truly what works for some, might not work for others. It is just my wish that people in here understand, that going the cautious way, is not inferior to ways we are arguing for in this thread, it just isn’t, not if you take control of the situation and pre-teach.
Blessings to all.
Exactly what do these parents think is going to happen? That their kid is going to come forward with questions about the dynamics of group sex, abuse, rape for discussion? Not going to happen unless you sit there and read it with them.
The next point is, “well I don’t want my kid to live in a vacuum.” I understand this point, I really do, but this is where you do pre-teaching. You can explain to them ahead of time in general terms the type of stuff that is out in the world and the type of stuff that is in books, so by they time they ARE exposed, they will be prepared and be able to view and hear this stuff through a better moral lens. People might not think so, but this makes all the difference in the world, seriously.
Another common fear here is that, well if they aren’t exposed to this “real world stuff,” in high school [or at summer camp, which is how my parents did it, with tragic results] When they get to college or out in the big world they will be naive and vulnerable.
No, not if you have planned for this ahead of time. By the time they go to college, and they have been exposed to morals, they WILL be prepared, without having to have direct exposure to it before hand. They DO NOT have to read about sexual depravity first hand to know that it exists, what is out there and how to avoid it, what it can do to you.
I know that even with all the moral preparation in the world, things might or will happen when they leave your roof. With the proper grounding and education from YOU, and the church hopefully, such experiences don’t have to own them. I hope all of this makes sense.
I apologize to the folks that think differently. There is no perfect formula, and most people parent the very best way they know how, and truly what works for some, might not work for others. It is just my wish that people in here understand, that going the cautious way, is not inferior to ways we are arguing for in this thread, it just isn’t, not if you take control of the situation and pre-teach.
Blessings to all.
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Teek
Guest
That was EXCELLENT. Jumped up and cheered at my kitchen table. My kids think I am nuts…but they are used to that.
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Joe_5859
Guest
Right. And maybe it is the case that we are all closer to agreement than it appears. Sometimes, I feel like we can end up having two different arguments side-by-side where the people we are arguing against aren’t really represented by any specific poster in the thread at all.
I would think that most here agree that you cannot shelter a child in such a way that they are completely oblivious to anything bad, and then once they turn 18, you just cut the cord and say “Good luck out there!”
I would also think most here agree that exposing your children to the evil of the world so that they know how to deal with it is not something that you do indiscriminately. You wouldn’t take an adolescent to a strip club, or pull up pornographic videos on the internet in order to facilitate having a “teaching moment.”
So it ultimately boils down to where a parent draws the line. And though we all may draw the line in different places (and sometimes a different place for different kids in the same family), I think we should (mostly) all agree that we do need to draw a line somewhere and that we also need to do our best to prepare our children for how to live in the world.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
I totally agree with this. I see the whole issue here as a parent drawing the line in the place where she personally thinks it’s good for her child and then the school comes around wanting to cross that line. I saw my mother and other mothers go through the same, even with Catholic schools. I disagree with the idea of trying to speak for kids not your own unless you’ve spoken to their parents and they are on the same page with you, because different parents may choose to draw their lines in different places based on how they’re teaching their kids and the needs of those kids. But discussing and pre-teaching and handling situations for your own child is a must. I don’t think anyone is saying it should be left entirely to a school, even a Catholic school.
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Lemuel
Guest
Why do you send your kids to prison? Homeschool.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Just downloaded it from my library.
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josh987654321
Guest
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josh987654321
Guest
I agree except for this. I’m certainly not sorry.
When I was more naïve, I would have assumed the best as some of the well meaning posters here, but I am too familiar with the LGBTQIA agenda to not see what is really going on here, especially on topics such as ‘sodomy’ etc and it’s not an innocent/honest mistake.
Any normal adult would deem material the OP describes as highly inappropriate.
God Bless You
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SuperLuigi
Guest
“nothing to see here” as the building burns.
And when it collapses, everyone is “surprised”.
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Teek
Guest
Well, I am dotting all my i’s and crossing all of my t’s for the meeting tomorrow with the teacher.
I was reading Pope Benedict XVI’s “Jesus of Nazareth” this morning, and in one passage he pointed out Psalm 119, which he calls “a single outburst of joy and gratitude” for the gift of “knowledge of God’s will and so of the right path of life.” Because this very gift is what I need to keep at the forefront during my meeting, I jumped right into the Psalms to see what it could teach me.
It never ceases to amaze me how very generous our God is! I needed everything that is in that Psalm, for strength and reassurance and resolve… If anyone would like to join me in praying Psalm 119 this week as an offering to the Lord so that His will be done in this little meeting of mine, but also in every endeavor of every person who is now fighting to walk in His ways against any resistance—I am sure that our united prayer will do more for the world than ever my little battle here could do.
God bless you all for your support, advice and prayers!
Great peace have those who love your law; nothing can make them stumble.
Psalms 119:165
I was reading Pope Benedict XVI’s “Jesus of Nazareth” this morning, and in one passage he pointed out Psalm 119, which he calls “a single outburst of joy and gratitude” for the gift of “knowledge of God’s will and so of the right path of life.” Because this very gift is what I need to keep at the forefront during my meeting, I jumped right into the Psalms to see what it could teach me.
It never ceases to amaze me how very generous our God is! I needed everything that is in that Psalm, for strength and reassurance and resolve… If anyone would like to join me in praying Psalm 119 this week as an offering to the Lord so that His will be done in this little meeting of mine, but also in every endeavor of every person who is now fighting to walk in His ways against any resistance—I am sure that our united prayer will do more for the world than ever my little battle here could do.
God bless you all for your support, advice and prayers!
Great peace have those who love your law; nothing can make them stumble.
Psalms 119:165
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Rosalie
Guest
How did the meeting go?
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Bruised_Reed
Guest
The reaction of your daughter, which you described upthread sounds like there is a sense of shame attached to it which, at first glance, might seem like a good thing. But I wonder why your daughter, and you, seem more disturbed by the sexual content than the violence and abuse. The books that are assigned aren’t sexy, the intention is not to arouse and I would be concerned if a young person, especially one what was sheltered, found them arousing. If you have created a sense of shame due to certain kinds of artwork because it depicts nudity or something sexual that is not erotic then I think that your message was incomplete.
I agree with the points in the article you linked but the ages make it less relevant to a student your daughter’s age. I also find it interesting how many posters discussed how disturbing and inappropriate they think the content is but I’d be willing to bet that everyone of them have mocked the idea of trigger warnings in the past. Sadly, many of her classmates will have been exposed to, or are victims of abuse. Whether you realise it or not your children are being exposed to the effect of the abuse and exploitation of their classmates and friends. I don’t understand why you can’t take the same approach with the reading that is assigned now as you did with the other topics that were challenging. It would go a long way toward protecting them and teaching them compassion.
I agree with the points in the article you linked but the ages make it less relevant to a student your daughter’s age. I also find it interesting how many posters discussed how disturbing and inappropriate they think the content is but I’d be willing to bet that everyone of them have mocked the idea of trigger warnings in the past. Sadly, many of her classmates will have been exposed to, or are victims of abuse. Whether you realise it or not your children are being exposed to the effect of the abuse and exploitation of their classmates and friends. I don’t understand why you can’t take the same approach with the reading that is assigned now as you did with the other topics that were challenging. It would go a long way toward protecting them and teaching them compassion.
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Rhubarb
Guest
It’s rather like people who get upset at The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn because of the racially insensitive content, while missing the point that the book advocates the exact opposite of that worry.
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Teek
Guest
Thanks for all of your support and for the constructive comments that helped me prepare for that meeting.
It was awesome.
The teacher seemed concerned and she is willing to allow my daughter to pick books with content that is not objectionable. She listened to my reasoning and, though we clearly do not see eye to eye, she allowed me to explain and responded with her position in a sincere and earnest way.
If only all conversations between people who are passionate about a subject but support opposing views would go like that one!
Did it change anything substantial? I do not believe so. However, if my assessment is correct, she expected me to have opposed the content because I view sexuality as wrong and inappropriate and shameful. She was legitimately astounded that I opposed the content because sexuality is good and right and beautiful. I am hoping that the idea that she could build for the students a model of humanity that is noble and uplifting before contrasting it with the alternative really grips her. It could be the beginning of a change, at least.
It was awesome.
The teacher seemed concerned and she is willing to allow my daughter to pick books with content that is not objectionable. She listened to my reasoning and, though we clearly do not see eye to eye, she allowed me to explain and responded with her position in a sincere and earnest way.
If only all conversations between people who are passionate about a subject but support opposing views would go like that one!
Did it change anything substantial? I do not believe so. However, if my assessment is correct, she expected me to have opposed the content because I view sexuality as wrong and inappropriate and shameful. She was legitimately astounded that I opposed the content because sexuality is good and right and beautiful. I am hoping that the idea that she could build for the students a model of humanity that is noble and uplifting before contrasting it with the alternative really grips her. It could be the beginning of a change, at least.
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Rau
Guest
That’s an excellent suggestion.
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Teek
Guest
It would be if these books advocated the opposite of that worry, and did not glorify the subject of that worry.
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Rhubarb
Guest
Have you read Huck Finn? The whole point is to humanize Jim, and show the cruelty and nastiness of the so-called “civilized” people. Jim is the only decent person in that entire book.
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Bruised_Reed
Guest
I"m curious: What do you understand glorify to mean? How does Huck Finn glorify racism?
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nodito
Guest
I think Teek is referring to the books that her daughter was asked to read vi a vis sexual content, not Huck Finn.Teek:
I"m curious: What do you understand glorify to mean? How does Huck Finn glorify racism?
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