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Hypnotoad
Guest
True but puperty didn’t set my sexual preference in stone; it made me aware that I’m a being capable of sexual experiences. I used to be one of those people that professed from the highest peak of Everest that I only like women and that I could only like women because hey lets face it I believed this 100%. Well I was shown my pride in such a statement (the Devil is a cunning being who takes something good and distorts it) and I feel others should check themselves at the door before doing the same thing because God will show you that without His grace you are fully capable of loving anything and anyone incorrectly.
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Debora123
Guest
I would like to point out that the very first crush I remember having on a boy was when I was 4 years old. Actually, I liked TWO boys when I was that age. One was a neighbor who was 2 years older than me. His name was Andre. The other was a classmate from my preschool. His name was Gabriel. I always got really shy and nervous around them, I was constantly trying to impress them, and I remember thinking they were very very good looking.
After that, I always had Crushes on boys… one right after the other. Until I found my husband and married at the age of 24.
I have never, however, had a crush on a girl (well, except maybe Megan Fox
).With that being said, I don’t know if a person is born with the sexual orientation they have, or if it develops over time starting in the very very early life. None of us do, and the Church admits that this is a mystery and that either could be possible.
What we DO know is that sexual orientation is something that is very very deeply engrained and rooted into us. We most certainly don’t “choose” which gender we are attracted to.
As for whether or not people can willfully change their sexual orientation, well the answer is very simple.
I’m sure it HAS happened before (though it’s very very rare). But human beings are not machines. Just because it can or has happened to someone somewhere, doesn’t mean it can happen to everyone. (I for one, know that I could NEVER be attracted to girls if I wanted to. No matter how much counseling I went through.)
I know that many many faithful Catholics who have a homosexual orientation pray endlessly for God to change their orientation. Though I’m sure some (very few) have been able to switch over, the vast majority don’t… no matter how much they pray. God calls these people to carry their cross and live chastely, and the best thing they can do is offer it up for the Lord.
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Dakota_Roberts
Guest
The hormones in puberty turn on circuits regarding attract that were put down a long time ago (as I recall depending on the part of the brain it is set up between in the womb and 2ish).
I’ve known a number of people who remember their first “crush” between four and six.I would like to point out that the very first crush I remember having on a boy was when I was 4 years old. Actually, I liked TWO boys when I was that age. One was a neighbor who was 2 years older than me. His name was Andre. The other was a classmate from my preschool. His name was Gabriel. I always got really shy and nervous around them, I was constantly trying to impress them, and I remember thinking they were very very good looking.
After that, I always had Crushes on boys… one right after the other. Until I found my husband and married at the age of 24.
I have never, however, had a crush on a girl (well, except maybe Megan Fox
With that being said, I don’t know if a person is born with the sexual orientation they have, or if it develops over time starting in the very very early life. None of us do, and the Church admits that this is a mystery and that either could be possible.
What we DO know is that sexual orientation is something that is very very deeply engrained and rooted into us. We most certainly don’t “choose” which gender we are attracted to.
As for whether or not people can willfully change their sexual orientation, well the answer is very simple.
I’m sure it HAS happened before (though it’s very very rare). But human beings are not machines. Just because it can or has happened to someone somewhere, doesn’t mean it can happen to everyone. (I for one, know that I could NEVER be attracted to girls if I wanted to. No matter how much counseling I went through.)
I know that many many faithful Catholics who have a homosexual orientation pray endlessly for God to change their orientation. Though I’m sure some (very few) have been able to switch over, the vast majority don’t… no matter how much they pray. God calls these people to carry their cross and live chastely, and the best thing they can do is offer it up for the Lord.
Well, severe brain trauma has been known to do wonders for drastically altering personality.
Through God all things are possible, but that doesn’t mean he does everything for people and of course suffering is good for you. Anyone remember the Beatitudes or Redemptive Suffering?
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ahs
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Seeker1961
Guest
I believe God can do anything, I just don’t think He alwayschooses to change people’s orientation. I know far too many homosexuals who prayed and prayed and prayed for that change and the answer was always “No”.
Is that the CAF approved answer or am I a CAF heretic?
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Dakota_Roberts
Guest
I believe God can do anything, I just don’t think He alwayschooses to change people’s orientation. I know far too many homosexuals who prayed and prayed and prayed for that change and the answer was always “No”.
Is that the CAF approved answer or am I a CAF heretic?
Well, it’s not heretical in Catholic thought, but I think it is anathema to these fora.
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shocktrooper
Guest
I believe God can do anything, I just don’t think He alwayschooses to change people’s orientation. I know far too many homosexuals who prayed and prayed and prayed for that change and the answer was always “No”.
Is that the CAF approved answer or am I a CAF heretic?
Seeker1961,
Maybe I an generalizing but how many of your homosexual friends that “prayed” for a conversion actually prayed for it? Were they expecting a zap of grace to immediately change them or did they actually deprive themselves through mortification and penance so that their prayer could be efficacious? Did they actually want change and were willing to do what was necessary or were they just looking for “proof” that they are what God wants; taking the lack of change as approval for their sinful nature. We also need to remember that sexual acts include lust, so just because a person is not physically in a homosexual relationship does not mean they are not sinning via lust.
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shocktrooper
Guest
Debora123,
I think we need to make a distinction with the word Catholic and how it is used. You are referring to “Catholic” as a member of a body that one is grafted into at baptism. This indelible mark one receives is by its very nature impossible to do away with, not even by the worst of sins. However, the Body grafted into can be lost. It is not God that does this, but the person who freely chooses.
Many people, including myself, use the word “Catholic” when referring to only those that claim to be faithful to the teachings of the Catholic Church. When one chooses to abandon a teaching, they are no longer faithful. This lack of faith is what prevents us from partaking in the Sacraments, if mortal in nature. Mortal sin does sever the limb from the vine, so in reality, we are no longer abiding in Christ.
My question to you or anyone is this… what good is it, at death, to be Catholic (simply meaning via baptism) if one is in a state of mortal sin and is no longer abiding in Christ or his Body, the Church? Baptism does not give us a “get of jail free” card, i.e. OSAS. This is why many use the term “Catholic” when only referring to those actively trying to live the faith and not as some birth right. When I was baptized Lutheran (valid baptism), I was not considered Catholic, even by the Catholic Church. I had to make a profession of faith before getting confirmed. Only then was I able to receive the other Sacraments as a Catholic, a faithful one.
I understand your points but just wanted to make a distinction. It seems to me like you and the other poster are using the word Catholic in different ways.
God bless.
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Debora123
Guest
Correct.
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Debora123
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That’s right Seeker, you and your friends weren’t “praying right.” If you had actually prayed right and actually taken the right steps, you all would be completely heterosexual right now.
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Debora123
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I am not here to judge who is a good Catholic and who is not a good Catholic. The poster I was addressing stated a falsehood and so I (along with a couple others) were correcting her/him.
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shocktrooper
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But it was only a falsehood under your use of the word, Catholic. Not his use, if that is how he was using it. This is all I am pointing out.
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Debora123
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Well then he needs to use the word “Catholic” for what it actually means, not his own definition. Doing so can cause confusion and can cause people to believe things that are not true.
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shocktrooper
Guest
Debora123, are you suggesting that there is not an incorrect way to pray?
That’s right Seeker, you and your friends weren’t “praying right.” If you had actually prayed right and actually taken the right steps, you all would be completely heterosexual right now.
I think your sarcasm is undeserved and not profitable for either side. I also think it is emboldening to those that may really need exhortation.
God bless.
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shocktrooper
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There is room in the Church to use the word in both ways. I just think we need to be more clear when doing so.
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revert_jen
Guest
Frankly, my problem with this whole question is that I’m pretty sure that even if the Church did say something quasi-officially about all homosexuals being able to change, it wouldn’t matter, because it is not a matter of faith or morals, so it really doesn’t come into the purview of definitive Church teachings. This is really a question of fact–a fact we don’t happen to know, but one that could be ascertained eventually. OTOH, no amount of research could determine whether Mary was conceived without sin. That is a matter of faith.
It is a matter of faith that it would be possible for God to change someone. It can’t possibly be a matter of faith that God would change any specific individual, much less that He has made it possible for all individuals to change themselves.
God could certainly just take away my natural inclination to being hot-tempered, for example. That is a matter of faith, because God can do anything. Instead of doing so, He has given me the daily grace to overcome it, tiny bit by tiny bit. I still sometimes have that viceral, instantaneous rush of anger. But thanks to years of help from God, it has been a very long time since I acted on that feeling, and the feeling itself comes less frequently. I personally believe that God is willing to assist all people to overcome their sinful inclinations in this way, whatever those inclinations might be. But it’s probably not heresy to disagree.
It is a matter of morals for the Church to say, as she has, that it is sinful for people with SSA to act on those impulses. It is a heavy burden, but then, frankly, there are a lot of heavy burdens. Alcoholism is a heavy burden. Mental illness is a heavy burden. Birth defects can be heavy burdens. The Cross is a heavy burden, and we all must carry it. But God will give us the strength to do so, if we are willing to accept it.
–Jen
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Debora123
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Well, I think people should use it the correct way.
When people are referring to good/devout/practicing Catholics, they should specify that they are referring to good/devout/practicing Catholics rather than just using the word “Catholic” when they are going to be saying things like “so and so is not Catholic.” …when so and so clearly IS.
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Debora123
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I apologize for the sarcasm, it’s just that comments like those really really frustrate me. They come off to me as extremely ignorant… with all due respect.
So we shall just leave it at that, and we can let people like Seeker and Dakota (who actually HAVE a homosexual orientation, and who actually ARE devout, practicing Catholics) tell you what they think about your comment.
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shocktrooper
Guest
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