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InSearchofGrace
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You have not been reading my posts closely.
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JesusPeaceLove
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Applications seems pretty obvious to me. Pope Benedict says your sex is given by your bodily identity and not your psychological identity or feelings like gender dysphoria advocates claim. Why is that hard to understand? Relevance is clear.
Those who claim that bodily change are only medicine make not much sense. Talk about preaching hopelessness. Happiness NEVER ever comes from having reality match what we want but from learning to love reality when it is not what we want. If someone believes they are different sex from the HEALTHY sex God has given them treatment is to help them accept themselves and their reality. If I am born in a race I feel I don’t identify with, changing my skin to be white is sickness. I should learn to accept my reality and others should help me see what is to love in my nature that God gave me. XY male with healthy male body should be helped to love OBJECTIVE reality of who they are. Those who preaching that they cannot be happy until they are mutilated to stop looking male are preaching strange message of what happiness is and where it comes from.
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Rau
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I believe those experiencing extreme dysphoria simply want a fix. If a pill could sort out the brain, that would be great. If that’s not possible, is there any wonder they look elsewhere?
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JesusPeaceLove
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Even those with severe suicidal depression want a quick fix. That is human. Nobody enjoys suffering. Is that so strange or new? But happiness is a question of psychology and spirit. The idea that one cannot be happy until they can make reality match their inner state is not from truth. It falls in what Pope Benedict says: to believe that line you have to believe that nature is something you make up rather than receive as gift…“something given”.
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Rau
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I believe that is to over think the issue. The individuals concerned want and need a solution. I find the idea of mutilating the body appalling - but the fact that persons would consider it screams that their situation is desperate. These are damaged people, not dreamers wishing to live a fairy tale.
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JesusPeaceLove
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Nobody called them dreamers. I don’t believe comparing them to suicidally depressed people trivializes their suffering, just the opposite. The idea that people cannot be happy without mutilating their healthy bodies given them as gifts by God is another lie from the devil. What are people born incurably blind, lame or limbless supposed to do with such a world-view? Jump over tall buildings because there are no surgeons to give them the bodies they feel they should have? Perish the thought! Happiness cannot and will never come from a surgeon fashioning genitals. This message is surely a lie. Yet this is the basis for those arguing that the pain of gender dysphoria can never be solved except by transitioning or mutilation.
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Rau
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I imagine the blind might jump at the opportunity to have bionic eyes, and the deaf would be thrilled at the opportunity to have cochlear implants.
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JesusPeaceLove
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With gender dysphoria, it is not the body that is sick. Advocates are arguing that a healthy human body is sick…Why?? It is the person’s vision and beliefs that are sick. Yet people think treating the body and not the vision and beliefs are the solution and assume this is mercy…I find that thoroughly confused thinking. Treat what is ill and do not mess with what is perfectly healthy.
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Rau
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Which is why I said if a pill could fix the brain that would be the solution. The claim is not that the body is broken, just that changing it gives relief.
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JesusPeaceLove
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Changing a brain is not the only way to fix one’s vision. Neither is chopping up and messing one’s BEAUTIFUL natural healthy body. One can accept both the subjective experience and the healthy body and love them as God’s gifts to them. But this is a psychological and spiritual solution. Fixing the belief that one’s body is a mistake.
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Brygida
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Firstly, I ask that you please excuse my English, as I am quite out of practice. Secondly, I would like to introduce myself. My name is Brygida and I am clinical psychologist, now retired after 50 years of practice as psychotherapist. I specialized in the treatment of LGBT peoples, with subspecialty in the treatment of gender dysphoria. I do not wish to intrude into your conversation, but offer to provide some insight into this issue by answering to the best of my ability any questions you may have. This is obviously and understandably a quite difficult issue for most of us who do not feel this incongruence with regard to gender, however, I think we can develop inaccurate theories when we rely solely on our own speculation.
I will tell you that in my experience, sex reassignment surgery is not always the best course of action, but that very often, it is a most appropriate treatment. I have written many letters of authorization for SRS over the years,
I also believe that the regret expressed by individuals who have undergone SRS should not be ignored. To me this is a symptom of a failure to adopt a more multi-disciplinary approach. Gender dysphoria has largely fallen under the scope of surgeons and psychiatrists since the advent of SRS. And in this vane, it has largely been presented as a medical problem with a medical solution, with psychologists simply giving their stamp of approval for a medical procedure in many cases. While I agree with majority of my colleagues that gender dysphoria itself is not a pathology, that does not indicate that it should be treated as solely a medical condition. In my experience, it is the psychotherapist who ought to be at the helm and working in conjunction with surgeons, psychiatrists, and other practitioners, as SRS should be seen as just one component (a very important one), but just one component of an overall multi-disciplinary approach to treatment.
I will tell you that in my experience, sex reassignment surgery is not always the best course of action, but that very often, it is a most appropriate treatment. I have written many letters of authorization for SRS over the years,
I also believe that the regret expressed by individuals who have undergone SRS should not be ignored. To me this is a symptom of a failure to adopt a more multi-disciplinary approach. Gender dysphoria has largely fallen under the scope of surgeons and psychiatrists since the advent of SRS. And in this vane, it has largely been presented as a medical problem with a medical solution, with psychologists simply giving their stamp of approval for a medical procedure in many cases. While I agree with majority of my colleagues that gender dysphoria itself is not a pathology, that does not indicate that it should be treated as solely a medical condition. In my experience, it is the psychotherapist who ought to be at the helm and working in conjunction with surgeons, psychiatrists, and other practitioners, as SRS should be seen as just one component (a very important one), but just one component of an overall multi-disciplinary approach to treatment.
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Thorolfr
Guest
Why does the body have precedence over the psychological identity?
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JesusPeaceLove
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My guess would be fallen state of emotions feelings. How people can decide subjective feelings are objective basis for sex beyond the healthy body seems crazy to me when we know how messed up we are emotionally in terms of sin, truth and natural law. Like Paul says, we want what is bad and dislike what is good. Feelings are simply not basis of reality. It is through reason looking at nature we discover natural law of God and not through our feelings. Advocates are saying that the body is something someone can twist to ones liking if it doesnt match feelings. This seems clearly false. Our bodies are not properties we own but part of who we are.
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Rau
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Certainly true. And it is appalling that an individual would choose to mutilate their body. The ‘need’ to do it must be great and the alternatives ineffective.
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Thorolfr
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From the perspective of the transsexual person, it must not be perfectly good since it doesn’t align with their gender identity. The fact that they don’t align obviously means that there is “something wrong”. But who has the right to determine that the “something wrong” is what’s in the head/brain and not what’s in the physical body?
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Rau
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I don’t think it can be viewed quite that symmetrically. The body functions in every way as the body should ( Eg. It can procreate). We can’t say that in respect of the brain where gender identity “exists”. The brain is at least to a degree plastic, the body is not.From the perspective of the transsexual person, it must not be perfectly good since it doesn’t align with their gender identity. The fact that they don’t align obviously means that there is “something wrong”. But who has the right to determine that the “something wrong” is what’s in the head/brain and not what’s in the physical body?
Surgery is pursued because it is possible and expected to ease the person’s distress - not because the body is broken.
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Rau
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In the context of gender and sex reassignment surgery, I think it’s a relevant attribute of the body don’t you?Is the most important thing about a body that it can procreate? There sometimes seems to me to be an obsession with procreation here in CAF.
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