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Jengl
Guest
I guess I’m going to have to.
- Status
J
Jengl
Guest
L
Liberanosamalo
Guest
I’d throw in a caveat…
When relationships with a narcissist go sour it is NOT both parties.
Maybe with normal people it’s both.
Mother Teresa couldn’t have made a relationship with a narcissist function. That’s my theory.
He would have accused her of just taking care of lepers for show but that she was really a hypocrite.
Yes, that’s how they talk. Unless you’ve lived with one, you can’t believe what they do and say.
It takes two to make a marriage, but only one to really foul it up, destroy all peace and walk out and end it.
Don’t buy into this 50/50 garbage, when YOUR garbage is just responding to his stuff and defending yourself. It’s a merry-go-round they get you on where they pull your strings (which they KNOW) and get you to react and then use your reaction against you.
Be very careful that he’s not taping you surreptitiously or doing anything in these next weeks to use against you in the divorce that he wants. Mine would pick fights and have hidden tape recorders. Spit in my face and have a tape recorder in his pocket to catch my reaction.
Watch your step closely till he’s out of the house. Him staying… there is nothing benign about it.
Narcissists are not capable of benignity except to themselves.
When relationships with a narcissist go sour it is NOT both parties.
Maybe with normal people it’s both.
Mother Teresa couldn’t have made a relationship with a narcissist function. That’s my theory.
He would have accused her of just taking care of lepers for show but that she was really a hypocrite.
Yes, that’s how they talk. Unless you’ve lived with one, you can’t believe what they do and say.
It takes two to make a marriage, but only one to really foul it up, destroy all peace and walk out and end it.
Don’t buy into this 50/50 garbage, when YOUR garbage is just responding to his stuff and defending yourself. It’s a merry-go-round they get you on where they pull your strings (which they KNOW) and get you to react and then use your reaction against you.
Be very careful that he’s not taping you surreptitiously or doing anything in these next weeks to use against you in the divorce that he wants. Mine would pick fights and have hidden tape recorders. Spit in my face and have a tape recorder in his pocket to catch my reaction.
Watch your step closely till he’s out of the house. Him staying… there is nothing benign about it.
Narcissists are not capable of benignity except to themselves.
T
TheRiver
Guest
Very sorry to hear Jengl, it must be very painful for you. However where there is still time, you mentioned one year? - Then you’ll always have one foot in the door, and that’s all that’s needed at times for God to work.
Remember the story about the Midianites and Gideon? God kept cutting down the size of the army, and Gideon wondered how he was ever going to defeat the Midianites. God wanted to demonstrate that it is Him who will defeat the enemy, Gideon just has to submit to his will, even if he can’t understand the reasoning. - It also goes to show nothing is impossible.
Do not show you are overly upset with him leaving, don’t plead and beg, don’t get emotional constantly, though I know it’s hard, remember, the forces of attraction still work regardless of where you are in the relationship, he’s more and more likely to be pushed away if you do.
I think you should be prayerful, do the novena regularly, in particular to St. Jude, he’s the patron saint of desperate situations. Fast if you can, or abstain from things that you like once in a way, and do your best as a woman and a mother.
Just to put things in to a different perspective, if he does leave, and he leaves earlier than a year, let him go, do not make attempts to get him back or be violent or overly emotional, it won’t work. Just know that you’re the one in control if he does leave, because he may realize eventually what he’s lost, and if he comes crawling back, he has to play by your rules.
As for his porn addiction, you might have to set some ultimatums there, especially if he’s watching that stuff in the house. You also have to consider if you really do want him around, he sounds like he doesn’t care and doesn’t want to do his part in the relationship. Keep us updated, so we can remember to pray for you always.
Remember the story about the Midianites and Gideon? God kept cutting down the size of the army, and Gideon wondered how he was ever going to defeat the Midianites. God wanted to demonstrate that it is Him who will defeat the enemy, Gideon just has to submit to his will, even if he can’t understand the reasoning. - It also goes to show nothing is impossible.
Do not show you are overly upset with him leaving, don’t plead and beg, don’t get emotional constantly, though I know it’s hard, remember, the forces of attraction still work regardless of where you are in the relationship, he’s more and more likely to be pushed away if you do.
I think you should be prayerful, do the novena regularly, in particular to St. Jude, he’s the patron saint of desperate situations. Fast if you can, or abstain from things that you like once in a way, and do your best as a woman and a mother.
Just to put things in to a different perspective, if he does leave, and he leaves earlier than a year, let him go, do not make attempts to get him back or be violent or overly emotional, it won’t work. Just know that you’re the one in control if he does leave, because he may realize eventually what he’s lost, and if he comes crawling back, he has to play by your rules.
As for his porn addiction, you might have to set some ultimatums there, especially if he’s watching that stuff in the house. You also have to consider if you really do want him around, he sounds like he doesn’t care and doesn’t want to do his part in the relationship. Keep us updated, so we can remember to pray for you always.
G
GeorgeBailey
Guest
I’ve thought of leaving my wife and family too. I’m 47 and my wife is 45 and we’ve been married for almost 20 years.
I’m in a sexless marriage, where in a good year, my wife and I have intercourse 4-5 times. And that’s only if I literally beg and plead. Even then there’s a better than even chance she’ll turn me down.
Do you know how humiliating it is to have to beg for intimacy? I do.
As bad as that is, even worse for me is the complete absence of any affection from her. She doesn’t kiss me, she doesn’t even touch my hand. Forget hearing “I love you.” No touching, no caressing, no nothing.
In the absence of sexual intimacy I’m ashamed to say that I’ve turned to internet porn. That only deepens the humiliation, but my need for intimacy – even a false intimacy is overwhelming after all these years.
Several years ago I read Dr. Laura Schlesinger’s “The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands”. That book is dead-on in its recommendations. (My wife, however, refused to read it.) If you haven’t read it, you should.
I’m in a sexless marriage, where in a good year, my wife and I have intercourse 4-5 times. And that’s only if I literally beg and plead. Even then there’s a better than even chance she’ll turn me down.
Do you know how humiliating it is to have to beg for intimacy? I do.
As bad as that is, even worse for me is the complete absence of any affection from her. She doesn’t kiss me, she doesn’t even touch my hand. Forget hearing “I love you.” No touching, no caressing, no nothing.
In the absence of sexual intimacy I’m ashamed to say that I’ve turned to internet porn. That only deepens the humiliation, but my need for intimacy – even a false intimacy is overwhelming after all these years.
Several years ago I read Dr. Laura Schlesinger’s “The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands”. That book is dead-on in its recommendations. (My wife, however, refused to read it.) If you haven’t read it, you should.
J
Jengl
Guest
Don’t do it. It’s 20 years! She should be part of you. Men and women have different sex drives - I know I at one point was afraid of showing affection to my husband because it resulted in degrading treatment like hitting my rear as I walked by or making “wooo hoo” noises when I changed or got ready for a shower. When you feel cheap - it makes feel ugly and stupid and the LAST thing you want to do is have sex - especially with the person that made you feel that way.
I recommend you check out a thread started by Tedfay called something like “on defeating lust and sex addiction”. He’s very honest and may be able to help.
I recommend you check out a thread started by Tedfay called something like “on defeating lust and sex addiction”. He’s very honest and may be able to help.
T
TheRiver
Guest
I don’t see how playful smacks or a man being your husband makes a woohoo noise when you’re changing is meant to be degrading?
If anything, you should be glad that he’s still very attracted to you, and you should respond back saying thanks honey, but you’re not getting any tonight, it’ll make him laugh or something, something humorous.
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Liberanosamalo
Guest
There is a tone and an attitude that can affect the meaning of words.
If she feels degraded, he probably intended it. I’ve lived it. I won’t write here what this young bride was repeatedly told by her new husband and how degraded it made her feel every time he wanted to have relations. Even when he knew it bugged me.
Unless you’ve lived it, you don’t understand. You are made to feel your husband doesn’t want YOU or to be joined to you, he wants to use you. There’s no feeling attractive when someone uses coarse words or gestures to make it known what he wants.
And the worst part… he didn’t show any of that side of him until after the wedding. The starlight and candlelight turned into something that made you feel seedy.
If she feels degraded, he probably intended it. I’ve lived it. I won’t write here what this young bride was repeatedly told by her new husband and how degraded it made her feel every time he wanted to have relations. Even when he knew it bugged me.
Unless you’ve lived it, you don’t understand. You are made to feel your husband doesn’t want YOU or to be joined to you, he wants to use you. There’s no feeling attractive when someone uses coarse words or gestures to make it known what he wants.
And the worst part… he didn’t show any of that side of him until after the wedding. The starlight and candlelight turned into something that made you feel seedy.
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TheRiver
Guest
Hmm, that’s an interesting view point, I didn’t really realize that women probably do notice the differences in intention. Then that must be really horrible to live through all that, I’m sorry that’s what happened to you, I really am.
J
JRPO
Guest
Don’t be so hard on yourself.
It is a very difficult thing to go through, what your going through with him, and no matter what you did you probably still finish up in the same situation.Its not a relationship thing what he is doing its a one way thing on his part.
J
Jengl
Guest
Exactly. It’s hard to explain. Words are twisted. Memories are distorted and repeated to the point where you don’t know what the truth was.
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whatevergirl
Guest
*Hi Jengl;
Probably the best course of action for you, is to just take each day as it comes. Such a cliche I know, but really…when we’re faced with overwhelming challenges, the only thing we can physically do, is what is right in front of us. Love your kids, pray, exercise (relieves stress!!) eat right…take care of yourself. Your husband will do what he wants to do. Just concentrate on being the best Catholic mommy you can be…and the best servant you can be for Christ. Regardless of what your husband does…you’ll know that you’re doing all you can to be connected with Christ. I will keep praying for you…stay strong in Christ. :hug1:*
Probably the best course of action for you, is to just take each day as it comes. Such a cliche I know, but really…when we’re faced with overwhelming challenges, the only thing we can physically do, is what is right in front of us. Love your kids, pray, exercise (relieves stress!!) eat right…take care of yourself. Your husband will do what he wants to do. Just concentrate on being the best Catholic mommy you can be…and the best servant you can be for Christ. Regardless of what your husband does…you’ll know that you’re doing all you can to be connected with Christ. I will keep praying for you…stay strong in Christ. :hug1:*
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GeorgeBailey
Guest
What women don’t get (but is explained perfectly in Dr. Laura’s book) is that men need sex and the intimacy that comes with it. We aren’t women, we don’t process things the way you do.
I would never a million years think that playfully smacking my wife on the rear or making “woo hoo” noises was offensive. That doesn’t sound degrading in the least – it sounds like a husband who loves his wife and is expressing it in a light-hearted manner.
Men and women are fundamentally different.
C
crazzeto
Guest
Sorry, I’m in agreement with Jen. You’re married, you can not undo that no matter what it is you think you want. I would suggest an appropriate course of action is you have a conversation with your wife about your intamacy issues, and pray. Leaveing your wife isn’t going to fix the problem, if you do so, and you start dating and sleeping with other women you are then putting your self into a state of constant mortal sin. You will not be able to receive communion. You’re denying your self a lot, including ultimatly true happiness which comes with truely being in Gods grace.
Moreover, I wouldn’t base your reasoning on a Dr. Laura book. For starters, I seriously doubt she would even support your reasoning.
L
Liberanosamalo
Guest
George, it may surprise you that women need sex and intimacy and feeling love too. When a wife who previously was loving and amorous becomes distant and avoiding her husband, it is because something has gone wrong. Maybe the husband is selfish in bed. Maybe he has hygeine issues. Or maybe he treats her shabbily all day and then acts like she has a problem when she won’t become his lover at night. Maybe she is exhausted with child care and house work and a job and the husband comes home and expects to be waited on like the lord of the manor and she resents it. Or maybe she has health and hormone issues, or untreated psychological issues. Or maybe she feels completely degraded by his idea of “lovemaking” and wants no part of his porn-fueled fantasies.
There are so many reasons women turn cold. Your issues with your wife are not what this post is about. You’ve complained about your wife elsewhere. You both need real counseling to get to the bottom of why she is avoiding intimacy with you. I suggest that many women do not see a slap on the butt as a compliment. Nor do they like their husband to make the kind of noises a construction worker on the sidewalk would make when they walk by. Men who “slap” their wives on the butt… taken in the overall context of a bad relationship, it can be one more act of “repressed hostility.” But a certain kind of man does that and then when called on it plays the innocent jokester. “I was just kidding.” When you live with a narcissist, the simplest acts can always be taken two ways. They do that on purpose. It assists them in making their target begin to doubt their own perceptions. “Maybe I am wrong and am taking this too personally.” “Maybe he really was only kidding.” “Maybe that was just him being affectionate.” It takes the focus off the fact that he is doing something his wife doesn’t like and makes her feel like a slab of meat. And then he can deny it and make her look like the paranoid nut.
When you love someone and they say “Don’t do that. It bothers me” normal people STOP the action. They don’t make a point of repeating it and then playing offended when they get their desired result.
Laura Schlessinger’s book can only go so far. I’m sure many a narcissist has pulled it off the shelf and shoved it in his wife’s face to show her that a conservative woman thinks she should cater to his every whim. I’m sure she wouldn’t want her book to be used to make a victim of neglect and abuse whose husband has porn problems feel she is trapped in a bad situation and is miserable because somehow she isn’t trying hard enough.
Unless you’ve lived it, you can’t know what it’s like to try everything you know how, ignore bad treatment, give and give more and then still have your spouse leave and tell you it’s because YOU were the problem.
If the person who knows you best supposedly does things that make you feel creeped out and degraded, they probably know exactly what they’re doing. And it’s not a compliment or an indication they think you’re attractive.
If that’s how you approach your wife, no wonder she’s distant. Here’s a clue on the care and feeding of wives: Leave the locker room behavior at the door. Help do the dishes. Clean up the tv room. Give her a shoulder or foot massage and a glass of wine and stroke her hair and look into her eyes and tell her how lovely she is even after a long day. THAT would work even better than a smack on the butt and a woo-woo noise.
If after 20 years you need to be told that, then it’s obvious to me why your wife is tired of it all.
There are so many reasons women turn cold. Your issues with your wife are not what this post is about. You’ve complained about your wife elsewhere. You both need real counseling to get to the bottom of why she is avoiding intimacy with you. I suggest that many women do not see a slap on the butt as a compliment. Nor do they like their husband to make the kind of noises a construction worker on the sidewalk would make when they walk by. Men who “slap” their wives on the butt… taken in the overall context of a bad relationship, it can be one more act of “repressed hostility.” But a certain kind of man does that and then when called on it plays the innocent jokester. “I was just kidding.” When you live with a narcissist, the simplest acts can always be taken two ways. They do that on purpose. It assists them in making their target begin to doubt their own perceptions. “Maybe I am wrong and am taking this too personally.” “Maybe he really was only kidding.” “Maybe that was just him being affectionate.” It takes the focus off the fact that he is doing something his wife doesn’t like and makes her feel like a slab of meat. And then he can deny it and make her look like the paranoid nut.
When you love someone and they say “Don’t do that. It bothers me” normal people STOP the action. They don’t make a point of repeating it and then playing offended when they get their desired result.
Laura Schlessinger’s book can only go so far. I’m sure many a narcissist has pulled it off the shelf and shoved it in his wife’s face to show her that a conservative woman thinks she should cater to his every whim. I’m sure she wouldn’t want her book to be used to make a victim of neglect and abuse whose husband has porn problems feel she is trapped in a bad situation and is miserable because somehow she isn’t trying hard enough.
Unless you’ve lived it, you can’t know what it’s like to try everything you know how, ignore bad treatment, give and give more and then still have your spouse leave and tell you it’s because YOU were the problem.
If the person who knows you best supposedly does things that make you feel creeped out and degraded, they probably know exactly what they’re doing. And it’s not a compliment or an indication they think you’re attractive.
If that’s how you approach your wife, no wonder she’s distant. Here’s a clue on the care and feeding of wives: Leave the locker room behavior at the door. Help do the dishes. Clean up the tv room. Give her a shoulder or foot massage and a glass of wine and stroke her hair and look into her eyes and tell her how lovely she is even after a long day. THAT would work even better than a smack on the butt and a woo-woo noise.
If after 20 years you need to be told that, then it’s obvious to me why your wife is tired of it all.
G
GeorgeBailey
Guest
Liberanosamalo:
How kind and understanding of you.
God bless you.
How kind and understanding of you.
God bless you.
G
GeorgeBailey
Guest
Jengl:
Just in case my previous comments seem cold (I don’t mean them to be so) I want you to know that you are loved and your struggle does not go unnoticed by God or by those of us who live on earth.
I’ll pray that you find comfort in your struggle, Jen.
I’ve found great comfort in the comments of those here; I hope you do too.
Just in case my previous comments seem cold (I don’t mean them to be so) I want you to know that you are loved and your struggle does not go unnoticed by God or by those of us who live on earth.
I’ll pray that you find comfort in your struggle, Jen.
I’ve found great comfort in the comments of those here; I hope you do too.
J
Jengl
Guest
Don’t worry about it. E-mails and discussion boards can sometimes sound harsh when they aren’t meant that way at all. It’s not like talking in person where the tone can make all the difference.
And even in the midst of this God is good to us. He just plants little surprises when you least expect it - but need it most.
And even in the midst of this God is good to us. He just plants little surprises when you least expect it - but need it most.
F
flyingfish
Guest
I also find that degrading and disgusting, I think guys who do this should consider other ways of expressing their attraction. Surely there is something other than slapping a woman’s butt?I don’t see how playful smacks or a man being your husband makes a woohoo noise when you’re changing is meant to be degrading?
It might seem completely innocent and flattering to you, but to a lot of women it is disgusting and a turn off. Find other ways!
J
joandarc2008
Guest
I think everything needs to be taken in the context of a relationship between two people. If a couple gets an afternoon where they are away from the kids, the jobs, the stresses, the bills, etc and they are having and joking and playful afternoon together and they are slapping each other on the butt making construction worker noises and laughing - no that may not be degrading - that may be playful, flirtatious, and fun.
However, when a wife is feeling degraded, depressed, or has a low self esteem and a husband does this constantly this is a different story.
What is really funny is I just finished explaining the meaning of context to my eleven year old step daughter over the phone and she got it and could explain it back to me. (Obviously not about this type of situation) Why is it that some grown men can’t? Or is it that they just don’t care enough too.
However, when a wife is feeling degraded, depressed, or has a low self esteem and a husband does this constantly this is a different story.
What is really funny is I just finished explaining the meaning of context to my eleven year old step daughter over the phone and she got it and could explain it back to me. (Obviously not about this type of situation) Why is it that some grown men can’t? Or is it that they just don’t care enough too.
- Status