hey ATHIESTS, was Hitler right?

[VARC]

(I read the title of the thread to myself in a The Warriors voice and cracked up – hey aaaatheists, come out and play-ay!)

.

LOL!!Caaaaaan yoooouuuu dig iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit?!?!?!?!?

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmDownWisWins
we are created in the image of God, being human, and only God has the right to take human life

Unacceptable for me , the reason why:
it’s a mankinds’creation , made up by some or someone !!

Well, we’ll just have to agree to disagree about that. I’m not here to “convert” you to Christianity.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmDownWisWins
I agree. Murder does destroy goodness. But why is that a bad thing? Why is evil bad? Does evil exist? What do you compare evil to which makes it evil?

It’s what mankind make / made it , that’s the problem !!
Unfortunely , the difference between good & bad
is for everyone different !!

So, whatever humans with power decide is “good” or “bad” at any particular time is actually “good” or “bad”, regardless of whether any one of us thinks that those things are really good or bad?

In other words, “might makes right”?

Murder is destroying a life who had no reason to die !!
Or is it (all) written ??

It is all written, but it is not all understood as it needs to eventually be understood.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Please note that Hitler was a Catholic and Stalin had at one time studied for the priesthood.

Matthew

“Bad Catholics”, because they are rebelling against the REAL truth of goodness in the fullest possible expression, are REALLY BAD!

The singularly most evil people on the planet are “ex-religious” people, because they retain their “religious ferver” and use it to promote their new-found EVIL gods!

There is massive power in religion, such as Hitler’s Hitlerism and Stalin’s Stalinism, precisely because religion is so basic to the human condition, being an integral part of human nature.

The “God shaped hole” MUST be filled, and when it is filled with anything but God the frustration caused by the “bad fit” causes massive violence and inhumanity to force the gaps to close, which they never can if the filler is not God Himself.

 

[notself]

“Bad Catholics”, because they are rebelling against the REAL truth of goodness in the fullest possible expression, are REALLY BAD!

The singularly most evil people on the planet are “ex-religious” people, because they retain their “religious ferver” and use it to promote their new-found EVIL gods!

There is massive power in religion, such as Hitler’s Hitlerism and Stalin’s Stalinism, precisely because religion is so basic to the human condition, being an integral part of human nature.

The “God shaped hole” MUST be filled, and when it is filled with anything but God the frustration caused by the “bad fit” causes massive violence and inhumanity to force the gaps to close, which they never can if the filler is not God Himself.

Never the less, Hitler’s religious upbringing did not make him into a moral adult. Why do you think that even though he received much the same religious training as the people on this board, Hitler became synonymous with murder and evil? Is it because people are immoral or good regardless of religious belief or disbelief?

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Never the less, Hitler’s religious upbringing did not make him into a moral adult.

It didn’t make him a moral adult because it was some combination of very bad “upbringing/education” and personal rebellion of “goodness”.

Why do you think that even though he received much the same religious training as the people on this board, Hitler became synonymous with murder and evil?

Firstly, we don’t know that his education was “much the same” as those on this board.

The reason that he became “very evil” was due to his choices of whom he would make his “god”. He chose himself, and discovered some very effective ways to elevate himself, as a god, above the welfare of humanity.

Is it because people are immoral or good regardless of religious belief or disbelief?

To NOT have an “idol” which one worships so as to gain “power to comfort one’s-self” is only possible in two ways.

Either one gets VERY good at listening to one’s “well formed” (somehow!?) conscience which clamours for the Church if it is available (and will find if at all accessible), and obeying the “natural law” which that conscience will reveal,…

…Or, one becomes as fully a member of the Body of Christ in communion as possible.

Those are the ONLY two options by which to avoid setting up one’s own personal idol (with the “assistance” of bad 'ol Nick of course), and becoming as effective as one is motivated to accomplish in promoting the “wants” that that idol tempts one with.

 

[Laurent_LUG]

Well, we’ll just have to agree to disagree about that.

How come ??

I’m not here to “convert” you to Christianity.

I know that

So, whatever humans with power decide is “good” or “bad” at any particular time is actually “good” or “bad”, regardless of whether any one of us thinks that those things are really good or bad?

In other words, “might makes right”?

Absolutely not !!
In some cases , power can be useful ,
but when used for & with bad intentions ,
that makes it criminal !!
Watch the politic issues

It is all written, but it is not all understood as it needs to eventually be understood.

So , literally , I’m typing this reply ,
it’s also “written” ??

The singularly most evil people on the planet are “ex-religious” people, because they retain their “religious ferver” and use it to promote their new-found EVIL gods

I disagree on this one , because of:
I follow not even one religion , and …
I have no bad / evil intentions !!
I even say , don’t / never follow me !! Why ??
I am I , I’m unique and I like it to keep it that way !!

The “God shaped hole” MUST be filled, and when it is filled with anything but God the frustration caused by the “bad fit” causes massive violence and inhumanity to force the gaps to close, which they never can if the filler is not God Himself.

Who’s to blame for all of the cruelty of mankind ??

or

Who’s to blame for mankind’s fall in the garden ??

Never the less, Hitler’s religious upbringing did not make him into a moral adult. Why do you think that even though he received much the same religious training as the people on this board, Hitler became synonymous with murder and evil? Is it because people are immoral or good regardless of religious belief or disbelief?

You kind of idolize hitler ??

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), january 30, 2008

 

[Laurent_LUG]

Well, we’ll just have to agree to disagree about that.

How come ??

I’m not here to “convert” you to Christianity.

I know that

So, whatever humans with power decide is “good” or “bad” at any particular time is actually “good” or “bad”, regardless of whether any one of us thinks that those things are really good or bad?

In other words, “might makes right”?

Absolutely not !!
In some cases , power can be useful ,
but when used for & with bad intentions ,
that makes it criminal !!
Watch the politic issues

It is all written, but it is not all understood as it needs to eventually be understood.

So , literally , I’m typing this reply ,
it’s also “written” ??

The singularly most evil people on the planet are “ex-religious” people, because they retain their “religious ferver” and use it to promote their new-found EVIL gods

I disagree on this one , because of:
I follow not even one religion , and …
I have no bad / evil intentions !!
I even say , don’t / never follow me !! Why ??
I am I , I’m unique and I like it to keep it that way !!

The “God shaped hole” MUST be filled, and when it is filled with anything but God the frustration caused by the “bad fit” causes massive violence and inhumanity to force the gaps to close, which they never can if the filler is not God Himself.

Who’s to blame for all of the cruelty of mankind ??

or

Who’s to blame for mankind’s fall in the garden ??

Never the less, Hitler’s religious upbringing did not make him into a moral adult. Why do you think that even though he received much the same religious training as the people on this board, Hitler became synonymous with murder and evil? Is it because people are immoral or good regardless of religious belief or disbelief?

You kind of idolize hitler ??

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), january 30, 2008

 

[notself]

Originally Posted by notself

How do you reach the conclusion that I idolize Hitler from my quote above?

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurent LUG

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmDownWisWins
we are created in the image of God, being human, and only God has the right to take human life

Unacceptable for me , the reason why:
it’s a mankinds’creation , made up by some or someone !!​

quote: CalmD**
Well, we’ll just have to agree to disagree about that. I’m not here to “convert” you to Christianity.**​

How come ??

Because you are not going to change your basic “axiom” that God is a nonsense creation of men to suit me, and I’m not going to change my mind about God to suit you.

So, the best we can do is to agree that our basic foundational beliefs are completely unreconcilable with each other, and move to (perhaps) try to understand why the other believes what they do.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmDownWisWins
So, whatever humans with power decide is “good” or “bad” at any particular time is actually “good” or “bad”, regardless of whether any one of us thinks that those things are really good or bad?

In other words, “might makes right”?

Absolutely not !!
In some cases , power can be useful ,
but when used for & with bad intentions ,
that makes it criminal !!
Watch the politic issues

It’s easy to SAY “might does NOT make right!”, but to say that all “goodness” and “badness” is relatively interpretable by each individual is to say precisely that “might makes right”, because humans are quite capable of, and inclined to, judge that “goodness/badness” relativity so as to justify their actions to get what they want.

There are no “bad” intentions when there is no standard of “bad”, or when “bad” means whatever each individual decides what it means.

Therefore there are no “criminal acts” for those with overwhelming power to force those who think they are “bad” to be “punished” for their perceived “badness”.

When punishing the bad for being bad is the only REAL PROOF that bad is bad, and not good, then not being able to enforce that punishment allows “bad” to be defined as “good”, because the “bad” not being PUNISHED is the only proof that a bad act is actually BAD!

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
It is all written, but it is not all understood as it needs to eventually be understood.

So , literally , I’m typing this reply ,
it’s also “written” ??

What are you refering to by the pronoun “it”?

I’m refering to revealed truth only in the area of faith and morals.

Your “typing” is not about “faith and morals”, in that you are not propounding some doctrine of faith and morals, and so is not part of that “it” that I was refering to in my statement.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmDownWisWins

The singularly most evil people on the planet are “ex-religious” people, because they retain their “religious ferver” and use it to promote their new-found EVIL gods

I disagree on this one , because of:
I follow not even one religion , and …
I have no bad / evil intentions !!
I even say , don’t / never follow me !! Why ??
I am I , I’m unique and I like it to keep it that way !!

You are quite wise to tell othes not to follow you. NO ONE should follow anyone but God.

But, do you **actively **NOT want to take the Eucharist, or find out why it is important to do so?

If you do, then you reject God, and that is an “evil” act, an evil intention.

I actually am not sure what you are disagreeing with in what I said. I only said that so-called “ex-religious” people are some of the MOST evil people because they retain their “fervor” (their enthusiasm) for “doing good” (as they define “good”) and become even more motivated to do the “will” of their “new god” (usually their own comfort of some sort) because their “new god” is so PERSONAL to them.

What do you disagree with about that?

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
The “God shaped hole” MUST be filled, and when it is filled with anything but God the frustration caused by the “bad fit” causes massive violence and inhumanity to force the gaps to close, which they never can if the filler is not God Himself.

Who’s to blame for all of the cruelty of mankind ??

Manking is to blame for it. It is each individual’s choice to sin. My point here was that by trying to “satisfy” the NEED to fill the emptiness which only God can fill by filling it with not-God we DO cruelty/violence to ourselves and each other.

The more “effort” that one gives to “making not-God fit” into the God shaped hole, which becomes “assymptotically” more difficult(which just means “more and more hard to do the closer one gets to the goal being accomplished”) to “force”, the CRAZIER (more insane) one becomes out of egomaniacal frustration at being thwarted!

or

Who’s to blame for mankind’s fall in the garden ??

Man is to blame, in that man made the choice, even though he was tempted by Satan in powerful ways, because God said specifically NOT to do what man specifically DID!

Thus, our (mankind’s as whole) journey toward understanding the consequences of sin which mankind finds itself on, which we travel in our own way as individuals.

 

[Laurent_LUG]

How do you reach the conclusion that I idolize Hitler from my quote above?

I’m not saying you are idolizing , but are you kind of idolizing
Maybe in some ways , admiring/appreciation for some reason ??

Because you are not going to change your basic “axiom” that God is a nonsense creation of men to suit me, and I’m not going to change my mind about God to suit you.

Agree !!

So, the best we can do is to agree that our basic foundational beliefs are completely unreconcilable with each other, and move to (perhaps) try to understand why the other believes what they do.

Once more I have to agree with you !!

It’s easy to SAY “might does NOT make right!”, but to say that all “goodness” and “badness” is relatively interpretable by each individual is to say precisely that “might makes right”, because humans are quite capable of, and inclined to, judge that “goodness/badness” relativity so as to justify their actions to get what they want.

There are no “bad” intentions when there is no standard of “bad”, or when “bad” means whatever each individual decides what it means.

Therefore there are no “criminal acts” for those with overwhelming power to force those who think they are “bad” to be “punished” for their perceived “badness”.

When punishing the bad for being bad is the only REAL PROOF that bad is bad, and not good, then not being able to enforce that punishment allows “bad” to be defined as “good”, because the “bad” not being PUNISHED is the only proof that a bad act is actually BAD!

Simply , there is no bad without good !!
Good & bad cannot exist without each other !!

What are you refering to by the pronoun “it”?

I’m refering to revealed truth only in the area of faith and morals.

Your “typing” is not about “faith and morals”, in that you are not propounding some doctrine of faith and morals, and so is not part of that “it” that I was refering to in my statement.

OK , you only refering to faith and morals ,
but what about the rest ??

You are quite wise to tell othes not to follow you. NO ONE should follow anyone but God.

I Disagree !! Why ?? Be yourself !!
You may have , need an example , but just be yourself !!
Never copy someone or something !!

But, do you **actively **NOT want to take the Eucharist, or find out why it is important to do so?

If you do, then you reject God, and that is an “evil” act, an evil intention.

I think you know the answer to that !!
But you see it as “evil” , I simply don’t !!
It’s my own choice , no regrets !!
I don’t hurt anyone with it , neither mental nor physical !!

I actually am not sure what you are disagreeing with in what I said. I only said that so-called “ex-religious” people are some of the MOST evil people because they retain their “fervor” (their enthusiasm) for “doing good” (as they define “good”) and become even more motivated to do the “will” of their “new god” (usually their own comfort of some sort) because their “new god” is so PERSONAL to them.

What do you disagree with about that?

Maybe , the thruth ?? 'cause There’s only the thruth !!
To be bad , what do you need to be like that ??
To be good , what do you need to be like that ??

For example: Luigi Cascioli , is he a bad person ??

Manking is to blame for it. It is each individual’s choice to sin. My point here was that by trying to “satisfy” the NEED to fill the emptiness which only God can fill by filling it with not-God we DO cruelty/violence to ourselves and each other.

The more “effort” that one gives to “making not-God fit” into the God shaped hole, which becomes “assymptotically” more difficult(which just means “more and more hard to do the closer one gets to the goal being accomplished”) to “force”, the CRAZIER (more insane) one becomes out of egomaniacal frustration at being thwarted!

Man is to blame, in that man made the choice, even though he was tempted by Satan in powerful ways, because God said specifically NOT to do what man specifically DID!

Thus, our (mankind’s as whole) journey toward understanding the consequences of sin which mankind finds itself on, which we travel in our own way as individuals.

So , when man is to blame for all the badness ,
who created (this) badness or even satan ??

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), february 1, 2008

 

[notself]

I’m not saying you are idolizing , but are you kind of idolizing
Maybe in some ways , admiring/appreciation for some reason ??

– Laurent LUG (.@…), february 1, 2008

I said that being raised as a Catholic did not stop Hitler from being evil.

Exposure to religion, being raised in a specific religion, following a religious belief for the most formative time of his life, did not stop him from being evil.

I think you need to read my orignial post again.

 

[notself]

…

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmDownWisWins
It’s easy to SAY “might does NOT make right!”, but to say that all “goodness” and “badness” is relatively interpretable by each individual is to say precisely that “might makes right”, because humans are quite capable of, and inclined to, judge that “goodness/badness” relativity so as to justify their actions to get what they want.

There are no “bad” intentions when there is no standard of “bad”, or when “bad” means whatever each individual decides what it means.

Therefore there are no “criminal acts” for those with overwhelming power to force those who think they are “bad” to be “punished” for their perceived “badness”.

When punishing the bad for being bad is the only REAL PROOF that bad is bad, and not good, then not being able to enforce that punishment allows “bad” to be defined as “good”, because the “bad” not being PUNISHED is the only proof that a bad act is actually BAD!

Simply , there is no bad without good !!
Good & bad cannot exist without each other !!

“Bad” is simply a situation where there is a disfunction in correct operation.

If there is no disfunction, in other words: if things are operating according to “the rules” such that what is meant to be accomplished is being accomplished, there IS no “bad”.

“Bad” exists as a perversion of “good”, and has no existence separated from that condition (being dependent on “good”).

“Good”, in contradistinction, has no need to be contrasted with “bad” to exist (thus being independent of “bad”), except to give “bad” an excuse FOR existence.

The dark is not a THING. It is a LACK of a thing.

The light is a thing which only “creates” the dark by being interfered with by elsewhat (aka sin).

The Light has no need of the dark, but the dark is utterly dependent on the Light.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmDownWisWins
What are you refering to by the pronoun “it”?

I’m refering to revealed truth only in the area of faith and morals.

Your “typing” is not about “faith and morals”, in that you are not propounding some doctrine of faith and morals, and so is not part of that “it” that I was refering to in my statement.

OK , you only refering to faith and morals ,
but what about the rest ??

We are talking about human behavior and the reasons why people do things, which is always a moral question.

There is no “the rest” to consider!

What, other than the morals (based on one’s faith) of someone, does that someone base their actions (behavior) on?

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmDownWisWins
You are quite wise to tell othes not to follow you. NO ONE should follow anyone but God.

I Disagree !! Why ?? Be yourself !!
You may have , need an example , but just be yourself !!
Never copy someone or something !!

You are a creation of God. When you “be yourself” you implicitly “follow God”, but since you have free will and a limited awareness of “how the universe operates” (gifts of God) you are capable of not following “the rules” as they SHOULD be followed but don’t NEED to be followed (aka you don’t immediately DIE if you break “the rules”).

We all take our examples from what we observe of God’s creation. We are each individuals. We are all unique. But if we are entirely “self-directed” then ONLY our “benefit” is considered, and we are “allowed” (by our “god” which is ourself) to do anything whatsoever to promote our goal of “personal comfort”, which would allow mass-murder and planetary-enslavement of humanity by an “elite” as perfectly acceptable.