Hey, is there anybody here at CAF, who believes that Jesus Christ had biological brothers and can you prove it?

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Hi Sola you pop up everywhere. And at 5am in the morning too!!!

You are a stubborn* ITCH*/COLOR]

I am convinced that one of these days we will come across an edition of The Bible According to “Sola Scripture”!!!

Still you do provide entertainment. This subject is beginning to sound like a gossip column - have you noticed??

😛 :rotfl: :rolleyes:

I wake early and am surrounded by computers every moment … so I get this luxury of blogging to my hearts content (and I obviously I enjoy discussing God at every oppotunity).🙂 🙂 🙂
 
Well I would say that Jesus was down for the homies, but I don’t think any where his literal brothers or sisters. :rolleyes:
 
Wrong about what? The “followers of Jesus”, or the supposed “biological brothers” of Jesus?
The Catholic arguments against what Scripture truly depicts as the biological brothers and sisters of Christ are flimsy and wrong and they know it. They claim that there wasn’t words in the original text to differentiate between brother and kin of another relation? Baloney. Then they claim that these could be half brothers and sisters. Truth is, what Scripture surely and truly says does not fit what the Catholic church professes and teaches about Jesus and Mary. Nothing anywhere in the Scriptures lends itself to Mary and Joseph not having a normal marriage.
 
The Catholic arguments against what Scripture truly depicts as the biological brothers and sisters of Christ are flimsy and wrong and they know it. They claim that there wasn’t words in the original text to differentiate between brother and kin of another relation? Baloney. Then they claim that these could be half brothers and sisters. Truth is, what Scripture surely and truly says does not fit what the Catholic church professes and teaches about Jesus and Mary. Nothing anywhere in the Scriptures lends itself to Mary and Joseph not having a normal marriage.
Nothing in Scripture lends itself to Mary and Joseph having common conjugal relations. The Church was aware of Mary’s perpetual virginity before the New Testament was written. This doctrine is based on the Spirit of the Word not the letter of the word. The early Church Fathers had to contend with heretics who opposed the teachings of the Apostolic Catholic Church pertaining to Mary’s perpetual virginity. These heretics raised the same feeble arguments Fundamentalists do today, and they were soundly refuted just as well. 👍

PAX
 
The Catholic arguments against what Scripture truly depicts as the biological brothers and sisters of Christ are flimsy and wrong and they know it. They claim that there wasn’t words in the original text to differentiate between brother and kin of another relation? Baloney. Then they claim that these could be half brothers and sisters. Truth is, what Scripture surely and truly says does not fit what the Catholic church professes and teaches about Jesus and Mary. Nothing anywhere in the Scriptures lends itself to Mary and Joseph not having a normal marriage.
Tsk, tsk. How childish.

the word adelphoi may refer to male relatives that one is not a descendant of and that are not descendant from one (such as a blood brother, step-brother, nephew, uncle, cousin, etc.) or non-relatives such as neighbors, fellow workers, co-religionists, and friends.

Because of this broad usage, we can be sure that the 120 “brothers” in Acts 1:15 did not have the same mother. Neither did Lot and his uncle Abraham, who were called “brothers” (Gen. 11:26-28, 29:15).

The reason relatives were called brothers or sisters was because in Hebrew, there was no word for cousin, nephew, or uncle. So the person was referred to as simply a “brother.”

Now, does Matthew’s use of “until” mean what you says it does? Nope. The Greek word for “until” (heos) does not imply that Mary had marital relations after the birth of Christ. In 2 Samuel 6:23, we read that Michal, the daughter of Saul, had no child “until” the day of her death. (Rest assured that she didn’t have any children after that day, either.) Hebrews 1:13 and 1 Timothy 4:13 are similar examples.

These things were taken for granted by the early Christians, who were familiar with the biblical languages and who knew that Mary was a lifelong virgin.

Heck, one can see that the degredation of Mary is a liberal, revisionist reaction thought up recently, in the 1800’s.

Even Protestants accepted her perpetual virginity before.

And now, SIA, where is your rebuttal? You have none. You shouldn’t rely on your private interpretation of Scripture. Don’t you know the Bible condemns such private interpretations?

I dare you to attempt to answer the above points.
 
The reason relatives were called brothers or sisters was because in Hebrew, there was no word for cousin, nephew, or uncle. So the person was referred to as simply a “brother.”

QUOTE]

This is simply not true.
 
Nothing in Scripture lends itself to Mary and Joseph having common conjugal relations. The Church was aware of Mary’s perpetual virginity before the New Testament was written. This doctrine is based on the Spirit of the Word not the letter of the word. The early Church Fathers had to contend with heretics who opposed the teachings of the Apostolic Catholic Church pertaining to Mary’s perpetual virginity. These heretics raised the same feeble arguments Fundamentalists do today, and they were soundly refuted just as well. 👍

PAX
I keep hearing that Mary was perpetually a virgin. I only have two words that I must repeat even for weeks on end, “Prove It”. Where does the Bible say that Mary was a virgin her whole life and that she never had children with Joseph? Problem is, Mary DID have children with Joseph. These are Jesus’ brothers and sisters!
 
I keep hearing that Mary was perpetually a virgin. I only have two words that I must repeat even for weeks on end, “Prove It”. Where does the Bible say that Mary was a virgin her whole life and that she never had children with Joseph? Problem is, Mary DID have children with Joseph. These are Jesus’ brothers and sisters!
Ummm, did you happen to catch the title of the tread?

Hey, is there anybody here at CAF, who believes that Jesus Christ had biological brothers and can you prove it?

The ball is in your court my friend. 😃
 
Matariel;4086024:
The reason relatives were called brothers or sisters was because in Hebrew, there was no word for cousin, nephew, or uncle. So the person was referred to as simply a “brother.”

QUOTE]

This is simply not true.
Then simly prove it, I’m all ears. :coffeeread:
 
Matariel;4086024:
The reason relatives were called brothers or sisters was because in Hebrew, there was no word for cousin, nephew, or uncle. So the person was referred to as simply a “brother.”

QUOTE]

This is simply not true.
Then simply prove it, I’m all ears. :coffeeread:
 
I keep hearing that Mary was perpetually a virgin. I only have two words that I must repeat even for weeks on end, “Prove It”. Where does the Bible say that Mary was a virgin her whole life and that she never had children with Joseph? Problem is, Mary DID have children with Joseph. These are Jesus’ brothers and sisters!
Were the Gospels originally written in English by Fundamentalists in the modern era? 🤷

You can find my recent posts on the subject of Jesus’ alleged brothers and sisters. I have no wish to repeat myself so soon.

By the way, if Jesus did have uterine brothers and sisters, they would have stood at the foot of the cross with Mary their mother. The Roman authorities permitted close relatives to stand close by so that they can say their last words to each other and bid farewell.

PAX
 
This is one of those topics I can see that inflames passions. 🙂

Obviously no one will be able to prove this one either way. We are left with this in Scripture:

Jesus’ brothers are mentioned in several Bible verses. Matthew 12:46, Luke 8:19, and Mark 3:31 say that Jesus’ mother and brothers came to see Him. The Bible tells us that Jesus had four brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). The Bible also tells us that Jesus had sisters, but they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:56). In John 7:1-10, His brothers go on to the festival while Jesus stays behind. In Acts 1:14, His brothers and mother are described as praying with the disciples. Later, in Galatians 1:19, it mentions that James was Jesus’ brother. The most natural conclusion of these passages is to interpret that Jesus had actual blood siblings.

gotquestions.org/Jesus-siblings.html
If one believes what Matthew 13:55 tells us about Jesus’ four brothers, then one has to believe what the same text tells us about Jesus’ father: the carpenter.
 
If one believes what Matthew 13:55 tells us about Jesus’ four brothers, then one has to believe what the same text tells us about Jesus’ father: the carpenter.
This is a false dichotomy? Honestly not a topic I have overwhelming interest in; but I will simply say this. These brothers of Jesus could have been the children of Joseph from a previous marriage (and Joseph could have been a widower as the EOC believes). The RCC rendering (brothers as in fellow Christian brethren) does not fit the context. Cousins also seems unlikely given there is a Koine Greek word for cousin.

Overall I think the preponderance of the evidence supports that Mary had children and a normal marriage after she gave birth to Christ. We will disagree; however, we won’t settle this issue here either, which is why I’m not very interested in pondering the nature of the relationship between Mary and her husband.
 
This is a false dichotomy? Honestly not a topic I have overwhelming interest in; but I will simply say this. These brothers of Jesus could have been the children of Joseph from a previous marriage (and Joseph could have been a widower as the EOC believes). The RCC rendering (brothers as in fellow Christian brethren) does not fit the context. Cousins also seems unlikely given there is a Koine Greek word for cousin.

Overall I think the preponderance of the evidence supports that Mary had children and a normal marriage after she gave birth to Christ.
I take it you claim that the New Testament was originally written in Koine Greek in its entirety. But the fact remains we do not know for sure. Indeed, there are scholars who beg to differ from you. One such scholar is the noted Semitic language professor Charles C. Torrey. In his work ‘The Four Gospels, a New Translation’ he contends that much of the gospels, the first fifteen chapters of Acts, and Revelation were translated into the Greek from Aramaic originals (Aramaic is closely related to Hebrew, a Semitic language.). And he is convinced that Luke translated his gospel from Aramaic sources (‘Our Translated Gospels’). He does concur that Paul originally wrote his epistles in the Greek, but David H. Stern (‘The Jewish New Testament’) adds that the apostle “drew on his native Jewish and Hebraic thought forms when he wrote.” The authors of the gospels did as well.

Other scholars maintain that Matthew’s gospel was originally written in Aramaic - the language of Jesus - and then translated into the Greek for practical purposes, either by the author himself or by one of his disciples. Matthew did address the Palestinian Jews when he wrote his gospel. Since his text was to be extended to the wider community in the Roman empire, a translation into the vernacular Greek was required. We must not deny the rich Semitic flavour that permeates the gospels and epistles. Finally, ‘adelphos’ does have a wider meaning than uterine siblings, so ‘anepsios’ does not necessarily have to be used. The term ‘adelphos’ may refer to disciples or disciples who are relatives of Jesus as cousins. A cousin is a relative, but a relative is not necessarily a cousin. A cousin may be referred to as a relative. In Hebrew and Aramaic there is no word for cousin, so the more generic form ‘relative’ (‘adelphos’) may have been retained by the authors in their transalations to the Greek.

The Protestant arguments against Mary’s perpetual virginity are nothing more than assumptions. Scripture does not provide any concrete evidence that Mary and Joseph had other children. The Catholic rebuttals show that any scriptural evidence leans more towards the truth of this Church dogma. One cannot arrive at the truth by granting supremacy to the written word, and one’s private interpretations of the text, over the Spirit of the Word and Sacred Tradition.

PAX
Good Fella :cool:
 
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