Hey, is there anybody here at CAF, who believes that Jesus Christ had biological brothers and can you prove it?

[sola_scriptura]

Are there any examples of a specific married woman in the OT taking a vow of perpetual chastity in the OT?

Of course not? These things were alien to Judaic culture (at least Israeli i.e. Palestinian culture during and prior to the Second Temple period).

Catholics will point to the fact that women could enter into oaths (with their husbands consent) as somehow pointing to the fact that an oath of chastity was possible (I suppose one could take a binding oath to jump off a bridge as well – does that mean anyone would do such a thing). It is indeed one of their more absurd theological arguments (but sadly not the most absurd).

 

[guanophore]

Of course not? These things were alien to Judaic culture (at least Israeli i.e. Palestinian culture during and prior to the Second Temple period).

Catholics will point to the fact that women could enter into oaths (with their husbands consent) as somehow pointing to the fact that an oath of chastity was possible (I suppose one could take a binding oath to jump off a bridge as well – does that mean anyone would do such a thing). It is indeed one of their more absurd theological arguments (but sadly not the most absurd).

Perhaps to ancient Judaic culture, though it seems clear that David intended to keep Michal perpetually chaste as a punishment. However, by the intertestamental period, there were devotional communities such as the Essenes that had celibate marriages.

 

[sola_scriptura]

Perhaps to ancient Judaic culture, though it seems clear that David intended to keep Michal perpetually chaste as a punishment. However, by the intertestamental period, there were devotional communities such as the Essenes that had celibate marriages.

Actually the story of Michal is unclear – but it certainly has no relevance to this issue. She was assumably punished for making fun of David for dancing in the streets during the procession (when the Ark was being transported into Israel) & she died childless (if anything this tells us that in Jewish culture it was a curse to die childless – not a virginal blessing).

With regard to the Essenes; they were sort of like the Gnostic Quakers of Judaism However, this cult was not the Judaism Mary was born into.

 

[Jeremiah333]

O.k. for the umpteenth time…the Hebrew word for brother indicates, nephew, kinsmen, cousin, relative, friend, or associate. To determine exact relationship to Jesus we must examine other verses to get a fuller picture. Have you read through this thread? If not, it’s been fascinating I suggest giving it a read.

This was written in Greek, not Hebrew. A study of the Bible in its original languages is fascinating. And yes, there are specific words in Greek for those things. It Specifically says “Brother” in its original language… which would be Greek.

 

[guanophore]

This was written in Greek, not Hebrew. A study of the Bible in its original languages is fascinating. And yes, there are specific words in Greek for those things. It Specifically says “Brother” in its original language… which would be Greek.

Welcome to the thread, and CAF, Jeremiah. you might want to consider reviewing the thread before you hop in.

Yes, the study of the Bible in the original languages is indeed fascinating. One tidbit you will find as you study is that the Gospel of Matthew was first written in Aramaic, then translated into Greek. In Jewish culture, everyone in the clan is considered a brother or sister. This is the case to prevent marriages between close relatives.

 

[Jeremiah333]

Welcome to the thread, and CAF, Jeremiah. you might want to consider reviewing the thread before you hop in.

Thank you, and you’re right, I should, sorry.

I got overwhelmed trying to keep up with it, lol.

It’s just that I am hypersensitive to the argument that they didn’t have a word to use for “cousin”, etc, and I get carried away.

 

[guanophore]

Thank you, and you’re right, I should, sorry.

I got overwhelmed trying to keep up with it, lol.

It’s just that I am hypersensitive to the argument that they didn’t have a word to use for “cousin”, etc, and I get carried away.

I know, the longer the thread, the harder to keep up. Why are you hypersensitive about that? Do you think it is not true?

 

[Jeremiah333]

I know, the longer the thread, the harder to keep up. Why are you hypersensitive about that? Do you think it is not true?

Right. I’ve heard people say there is no Greek word for “cousin” and of course there is. Then they’ll say well in modern Greek, but not Koine Greek. It’s probably already been said, lol, but the Koine word for “cousin” is ανεψιος, (“anepsios”), and this word is used in the New Testament.

 

[guanophore]

Right. I’ve heard people say there is no Greek word for “cousin” and of course there is. Then they’ll say well in modern Greek, but not Koine Greek. It’s probably already been said, lol, but the Koine word for “cousin” is ανεψιος, (“anepsios”), and this word is used in the New Testament.

OIC. I did not know that. I think most people dont’ know that word was not used by Aramaic language and culture which is the original source of the book of Matthew. The Jews would have been scandalized if anyone had proposed marriage to a “brother ore sister” (near clan relative). I see that same thing here in the native population. Marriage within the tribe is preferred, but definitely not within the clan (brothers and sisters).

 

[Good_Fella]

Right. I’ve heard people say there is no Greek word for “cousin” and of course there is. Then they’ll say well in modern Greek, but not Koine Greek. It’s probably already been said, lol, but the Koine word for “cousin” is ανεψιος, (“anepsios”), and this word is used in the New Testament.

“Is he not the carpenter, the son of Mary, and the brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?”
Mark 6, 4

The townspeople who questioned the credibilty of Jesus did not speak in Koine Greek. They spoke in Aramaic which has no distinct word for cousin. Instead they referred to Jesus as the brother (ah) of the four men. They used “sisters” (aha) when referring to the female relatives or cousins. Even if the traditionally accepted author of the gospel, a native Jew in Jerusalem by the name of John Mark, had originally written it in the Greek, he must have retained the Jewish idiomatic expressions used by the townspeople in the translated form (adelphos). The author does literally employ Aramaic in 5, 41: “Talitha cumi.” Moreover, it’s important to keep in mind that the Greek translators of the Septuagint knew that there was a separate word for cousins (anepsios), but they used ‘adelphos’ instead. They themselves retained the Semitic usage of the original Hebrew spoken by the characters of the Old Testament.

PAX

 

[sola_scriptura]

Right. I’ve heard people say there is no Greek word for “cousin” and of course there is. Then they’ll say well in modern Greek, but not Koine Greek. It’s probably already been said, lol, but the Koine word for “cousin” is ανεψιος, (“anepsios”), and this word is used in the New Testament.

 

[justasking4]

Welcome to the thread, and CAF, Jeremiah. you might want to consider reviewing the thread before you hop in.

Yes, the study of the Bible in the original languages is indeed fascinating. One tidbit you will find as you study is that the Gospel of Matthew was first written in Aramaic, then translated into Greek. In Jewish culture, everyone in the clan is considered a brother or sister. This is the case to prevent marriages between close relatives.

Where is the manuscript evidence that Matthew was written in Aramaic?

 

[guanophore]

Where is the manuscript evidence that Matthew was written in Aramaic?

With the rest of the mss that Jerome used.

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;4176203]
Originally Posted by Jeremiah333
Right. I’ve heard people say there is no Greek word for “cousin” and of course there is. Then they’ll say well in modern Greek, but not Koine Greek. It’s probably already been said, lol, but the Koine word for “cousin” is ανεψιος, (“anepsios”), and this word is used in the New Testament.

guanophore
OIC. I did not know that. I think most people dont’ know that word was not used by Aramaic language and culture which is the original source of the book of Matthew. The Jews would have been scandalized if anyone had proposed marriage to a “brother ore sister” (near clan relative). I see that same thing here in the native population. Marriage within the tribe is preferred, but definitely not within the clan (brothers and sisters).

So you agree that if the writers of Scripture wanted to convey in Matthew 13:55-56 for example that these “brothers” were really “cousins” he would have used the word specific word for cousin, which is ‘anepsios’? View attachment 4072

 

[guanophore]

So you agree that if the writers of Scripture wanted to convey in Matthew 13:55-56 for example that these “brothers” were really “cousins” he would have used the word specific word for cousin, which is ‘anepsios’? View attachment 4072

no. Those that copied the Aramaic did their best to be faithful to the Aramaic, which calls everyone in the clan “brother” or “sister” as they are not eligible marriage partners.

Has the church infallibly recognized “What did Christ teach that wasn’t written,and if it wasn’t written how can you be sure He taught it”?

Absolutely!

If so where and can you give some examples what Christ taught that is not written down?

The Catechism is a sure norm. I think one would be hard put to find anything in Sacred Tradition that has not been written down by this time.

Here is your post:
"Apostolic Tradition is the preaching of the Apostles. It is God’s word, not men’s. “And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers,” 1 Thes 2:13.

Most of Apostolic Tradition overlaps Scripture (for instance, the accounts of the life, ministry, miracles, death and resurrection of Jesus appear both in Scripture and in Tradition). If you mean something which is only in Apostolic Tradition and isn’t in Scripture, the easiest example is the canon of Scripture itself (Scripture doesn’t say which books belong to the Bible – we know which books belong to the Bible from the Apostles’ preaching)."

Where is this “Tradition” to be found? Secondly, your answer does not address what was it that Jesus taught not recorded in Scripture? I’m not talking about the canon since we have written evidence for it rather i’m asking for specific examples of what Jesus taught or did not recorded in the Scriptures. That has yet to be shown.

That He is an only child of His mother.

 

[Good_Fella]

So you agree that if the writers of Scripture wanted to convey in Matthew 13:55-56 for example that these “brothers” were really “cousins” he would have used the word specific word for cousin, which is ‘anepsios’? View attachment 4072

You’re either blind or suffering from a reading comprehension disability. Or maybe your glasses could be the wrong prescription. Please see my reply #579.

 

[guanophore]

You’re either blind or suffering from a reading comprehension disability. Or maybe your glasses could be the wrong prescription. Please see my reply #579.

 

[GailMac]

Hey there guys! Nice to see Guano and Justasking going at it again!

Dear Justasking **Don’t forget that those in the passage you give the authority to speak for God aren’t God but His detractors. Jesus speaks in the passage and rebukes them for their lack of faith! **

Just a reminder…

Peace,

Gail

 

[guanophore]

So you agree that if the writers of Scripture wanted to convey in Matthew 13:55-56 for example that these “brothers” were really “cousins” he would have used the word specific word for cousin, which is ‘anepsios’? View attachment 4072

None of your questions will have any merit until you demonstrate how you dispensed with the Scripture about these individuals belonging to another Mary. Sorry.

Also, until you do your homework on the Aramaic origin of Matthew, your efforts to use the Gk to prove your point have no merit either. Study up, then come back.

 

[guanophore]

Hey there guys! Nice to see Guano and Justasking going at it again!

Dear Justasking **Don’t forget that those in the passage you give the authority to speak for God aren’t God but His detractors. Jesus speaks in the passage and rebukes them for their lack of faith! **

Just a reminder…

Peace,

Gail

I wonder if that is why ja4 is so well versed in detraction and calumny? Great role models!