Hi!

[mini_me640]

OP,

While you may not consider it serious, exhaustion can contribute to depression, which IS serious. Being gone so much, you may not notice early signs of depression. I had a bout of PPD after my sons birth andy husband had no idea. I cried almost all day while he was at work and then tried to fake being ok when he was home. I didn’t tell him about it until after our next child was born. I thought I was weak and a failure. Now I know I was exhausted and mildly depressed. Your wife’s mental state matters. When I am tired, I am short tempered and impatient which are not good qualities in a mom.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

Hi! I wrote this earlier, and have not had a chance to read the whole thread, but thought I would go ahead and post it :

First of all, I do not agree with the notion that having x amount of children makes a woman immune to having selfish reasons to avoid (at least I know that up to 5 kids it doesn’t work ), but don’t discount the fact that it takes generosity to receive 7 young men and raise them 16 yrs. I think you should talk with your wife about the reasons she feels you have serious/just/grave reasons to avoid. It is something a couple discerns together. Now, I must add, being a stay at home mom is a full time 24hr/day job. She is not asking for you to hire a nanny and housekeeper 7 days a week. If your family can afford having help every other week, heck, even weekly, that is not something extravagant to do! I know you have a very heavy work load as well, 70 hrs is a lot, which is why I think it was very smart and considerate of your wife to suggest having someone from the outside help her with her load instead of her asking you to do more. Also, is there anything you can think of to help your wife not have to be up so much with your 3 yr old? I don’t know if your child has any special needs (and if he/she does you do not need to share it here), but if not, maybe there is something that can be done to help her get a better rest at night…At that stage normally (at least my children) don’t need their mom as much at night.
Now, if a person is pushing a vasectomy, getting tubes tied, condoms, and, if not, withholding sex they probably need to learn more about the gift of sexuality. Pushing these immoral options on their spouse is an indicator that they possibly do not completely understand sexuality and fertility, and thus not immune to misusing the sexual gift, and I do think that you are correct in being concerned. Nevertheless, the fact that your wife has been open to life and received 7 blessings, and has been raising them, shows she is a generous person. I think there are 2 separate issues here: 1. Discerning whether to avoid now (and the good thing about this is that even if you discern that you need to avoid for the moment, it does not mean you are done, granted you go about avoiding morally, using NFP.) If she is 41 she may be nearing the end of her fertile years, or may have a couple left. Talk with her, try to understand her reasoning you know her better than any of us, you can help her discern whether comfort or necessity is a motivator. 2. The form of avoiding: You are right in wanting what is best for her, even if it is not the easiest path (and that not only goes for receiving blessings, which is something you guys need to talk more about, it goes for not doing things that would put your souls in danger such as using condoms, or sterilizing yourselves, withholding sex, etc, which are definitely morally wrong). What is best for you as a couple is to not do anything that harms your souls or marriage, and while one aspect is something you can discern, but ABC and sterilization is never ok (and witholding sex because your spouse won’t go along with it is not ok either).

All in all, continue loving your beautiful wife, mother of your 7 sons, and continue to try to talk to her about being open to life, discerning God’s will, pray for her, try to help her in any way you can, and that includes not accepting to use condoms nor a vasectomy, and counseling her against having her tubes tied, since these will not get either of you closer to Him, closer to Heaven.

 

[monicatholic]

All I can picture is a woman, ready to put her hair out, screaming, “no, no, no…I cannot take any more. That is it, you want more children right now, I will have my tubes tied.”

This is a woman at the end of her rope. She sees no way out. And her husband wants to pour more onto her. She is drowning already.

that she is or isnt desperate isnt my contention. she may or mayn’t have serious reason to avoid pregnancy isnt my contention. ABC is objectively mortally sinful either way.

that Gordon is not listening to her*** IS ***my contention. that he’s not trying to help remove barriers to avoidance-- that’s my contention. that whatever he IS doing to relieve her burden, he’s doing with judgment and dismissiveness-- that is also my contention. instead, he’s trying to change her mind-- with little clarity as to what/ why her mind really is.

 

[monicatholic]

All in all, continue loving your beautiful wife, mother of your 7 sons, and continue to try to talk to her about being open to life, discerning God’s will, pray for her, try to help her in any way you can, and that includes not accepting to use condoms nor a vasectomy, since that will not get either of you closer to Him, closer to Heaven.

lifeisbeautiful always has beautiful perspective. i have only one contention with her capsulization. do all the above suggestion except, i think it’s better to NOT keep talking about being open. instead, listen. just listen.

 

[maryjk]

that she is or isnt desperate isnt my contention. she may or mayn’t have serious reason to avoid pregnancy isnt my contention. ABC is objectively mortally sinful either way.

Of course it is. And I would never say she should use ABC.

that Gordon is not listening to her*** IS ***my contention. that he’s not trying to help remove barriers to avoidance-- that’s my contention. that whatever he IS doing to relieve her burden, he’s doing with judgment and dismissiveness-- that is also my contention. instead, he’s trying to change her mind-- with little clarity as to what/ why her mind really is.

That is really my contention too.

It seems as though she has tried many different ways to tell him that she is at the end of her rope. He deems her concerns as silly. That she is opting out of her vows. That she is bowing to secular pressure.

When really all she wants is his help and understanding. What she is hearing is that all he wants from her is another child, and another, and another. It that right for them? Maybe. It could be that they as a family will have a dozen children. Only God knows.

But I am getting from the OP that he thinks the way to get into heaven is to have as many children as possible. And maybe the wife is getting the same impression. If so, she may be feeling that he is using her as a baby making machine and totally disregarding her feelings.

 

[RolandSimms]

Wow. You have all given me a lot to think about. I have to admit some of this is painful because I have always thought of myself as a very decent, if imperfect, head of household. It pains me to think my wife might be willing to compromise her salvation because of the way I’ve made her feel. I would never want her to feel disrespected. I never thought I’d be the husband of a burned out wife! Praying about this fervently.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

The housekeeper - well the way I see it, we have a 16-year-old son, and a 14 -year-old, and a 13-year-old and they are fit and able to help around the house. There is no reason they should not be helping their mother with the yard work and lawn mowing, taking out the garbage, fixing little things around the house, carrying in the groceries. They can put away their own laundry. The fact that she has not made them responsible for these things is beyond me. I think it would lighten her “load” so to speak, but she claims they are too busy with school, homework and extracurricular activities. I do not think the laundry has been put away for two weeks and I am now living out of the dryer.

Sorry to vent I just need a place where I can place all my burdens on the altar. Please pray for me, and for my wife. I love her so dearly and only want the best. This is just very hard for me to accept.

Thanks
Roland

Hi Roland, I had not read this part. Why don’t you talk with her and the children directly telling them the must help out more around the house, maybe she can come up with a chore list and you guys can have them complete XYZ chores or they don’t get to do some of the extracurricular activities. No wonder she is exhausted, if she does not get help from your kids. It is a disservice to your children to not have them help out in the house, she shouldn’t take everything on her shoulders.

i have only one contention with her capsulization. do all the above suggestion except, i think it’s better to NOT keep talking about being open. instead, listen. just listen.

Absolutely listen, monicatholic is right… but I do think you should talk about being open to life too, though, since she is clearly having trouble with that (wanting condoms, vasectomy, tubal), and also about discerning God’s will, if it does include another blessing now or down the road. But yes, I agree with monicatholic, listening is very important…and sometimes after we have said what we needed to we may just need to be quiet and pray (and listen ).

I really like what monicatholic said here in another post:

OK, then, i wont argue anymore whether her reasons are valid. but a good husband asks sincere questions, trying to listen with his heart. he tries to-- patiently and lovingly-- remove the barriers between his wife and her openness. he prays for her. perhaps he doesnt cater to her every whim, but he avoids judging her requests as extravagant and silly.

I like this, especially the part of trying to remove the barriers between your wife and openness, patiently and lovingly. I know what it is like to not get a good night’s sleep, maybe working on that alone can help a lot. Listen to her and try to find those barriers, whether she needs to learn more about what married love should really be, the eternal repercussions of closing oneself off to life and not being open to God’s will, or needs help so she isn’t as tired, or needs help in one of many other different ways… Pray for her… that is something we should always do for our spouses, but especially so when their souls are in danger. Try to understand where she is coming from, this will help you help her.

Wow. You have all given me a lot to think about. I have to admit some of this is painful because I have always thought of myself as a very decent, if imperfect, head of household. It pains me to think my wife might be willing to compromise her salvation because of the way I’ve made her feel. I would never want her to feel disrespected. I never thought I’d be the husband of a burned out wife! Praying about this fervently.

I really do not think this is a burden that falls completely on your shoulders. No matter how difficult life may be, ABC should never be an option. It sounds that you are a loving husband that wants what is best for your wife and family, and may not have been completely aware of everything that being a stay at home mom entails. I would want my husband to want my to strive to holiness, not complacency, and I think that is what you are trying to do. It is easy to just sit back and let your spouse do whatever, I think it is very good that you are not doing that, but you also need to be sensitive to your spouses needs. I just think at this point you need to sit down with her and try to see why both of you have different ideas of what God’s plans are for you. She may never be pregnant again even if you are open to a pregnancy, or maybe God does have another child planned for you and just needs you both to be open to it, or maybe after talking with her you will feel that you do have reasons to avoid for the present. This is something you will both need to pray and talk about. Do you have a good faithful priest you could talk with? I think it would benefit both of you.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

Obviously I sound like a real jerk. Patricia always says I have a hard time expressing myself!

Is being tired really a valid reason to avoid welcoming another baby? My wife is healthy, slim, does not struggle with mental illness - and yes of course she’s tired with the 7 boys - but beyond that I really do not feel she is unwell or unstable.

In no way do I consider my lovely wife to be a “baby factory” - but we did agree to welcome as many children as God sees fit. In some ways I feel she is reneging on our vows, and telling God she knows best. I am concerned for her soul, because she obviously wants to be the decider as to how many children we have. Many women care for far more than 7 children (and let’s be honest, the three or four oldest are pretty much self-sufficient, so it’s not like she’s caring for 7 little ones.)

The housekeeper - well the way I see it, we have a 16-year-old son, and a 14 -year-old, and a 13-year-old and they are fit and able to help around the house. There is no reason they should not be helping their mother with the yard work and lawn mowing, taking out the garbage, fixing little things around the house, carrying in the groceries. They can put away their own laundry. The fact that she has not made them responsible for these things is beyond me. I think it would lighten her “load” so to speak, but she claims they are too busy with school, homework and extracurricular activities. I do not think the laundry has been put away for two weeks and I am now living out of the dryer.

Sorry to vent I just need a place where I can place all my burdens on the altar. Please pray for me, and for my wife. I love her so dearly and only want the best. This is just very hard for me to accept.

Thanks
Roland

Roland, forgive me if I duplicate another post, I am only halfway through your growing thread but I had to respond to this post.

You work 70 hours a week. You are a male, your sons’ dad. YOU, Sir, should be teaching them how to do chores. If you are never there, please do not criticize your wife’s raising of your sons. If you want it done differently, then be there to help do it yourself.

I am the wife of a man who has ALWAYS worked long hours, and spent a lot of time and energy outside of our home. Even when he IS home, he does not want to do chores, chores that he and our sons could have done, such as lawn care, car washing, etc. When he was growing up, his mother did it all for him. Yet he seems to get frustrated because I do not choose to be the perennial “drill sergeant” with the boys and MAKE them do chores. With everything else I have done, I am just not going to do that too.

You cannot criticize your wife this way - I had TWO sons and at times I was overwhelmed. She has SEVEN and must be up to her eyeballs in needs, desires, demands, etc. and you begrudge her a little household help? Either cut back on your hours and do it yourself or let her get a housekeeper.

Sorry to be harsh but really.

 

[aloe]

Kindness and understanding goes a long way. You said you have enough money for another child so don’t make the housekeeper a sore spot. It isn’t a full time thing, just a help thing to help with an intense workload that keeps multiplying for her. I think having a house keeper will bless your marriage and your wife will feel like her concerns have heard by you and she will feel supported in love by you in that way. Also if you lead by example to your boys and teach them they are expected pitch in with the chores that will also richly bless your marriage (and your boys future marriages as well). She might find that having another isn’t such a hardship or big deal with more of her husband’s help, love, and full support.

 

[samiam1611]

I love our big family and we can afford to welcome another little soul - maybe even a girl. My wife believes that she is “burned out” on pregnancy and childcare and sick of the demands on her. She said she couldn’t do it all again. To tell you the truth, it’s hard for me to accept because before we got married we used to talk about having a baker’s dozen of children. My wife’s health really is fine, our house is big enough, and I’m not sure I can say with a pure heart that I believe we should avoid having more children other than for selfish reasons. It would grieve me to abstain during her fertile periods, knowing I was participating in it. And anyway she says NFP is not good enough and too much work. I guess her cycles are not regular anymore? Plus she is up all hours of the night with Ben, the baby.

Of course I will not use condoms, or get a vasectomy. I just wish I could get into her head! Why after all our blessings would she refuse more? Right now we are mostly abstinent although I sheepishly admit that this is quite difficult on my end. I don’t think I can go the rest of my marriage like this.

Patricia, my wife, wants to hire a housekeeper every other week so that she can relax more. I think that’s a bit extravagant and silly, but I might be willing to go for it if it means she could be open to the possibility of LIFE. I fear that the secular world has gotten to her, though, telling her she must be DONE with 7 boys.

Thanks,
Roland

Yikes. You deny it, but you most definitely are coming across as if you view your wife as a baby-making machine.

I can’t believe you think getting a housekeeper every other week is extravagant when you have so many kids, and presumably a big house. Heck, if she suggested getting a** live-in **nanny I wouldn’t call it extravagent, given your large family size! And you indicate that you’d be willing to make a DEAL with your wife? - You are basically saying “I’ll only hire a housekeeper if you agree to have more children.” <----baby-factory :nope: wrong wrong wrong

If you don’t want to hire a housekeeper, how about you cut back your hours at work to 40 and spend the time that you would have been working helping your wife raise your children and clean house? If you have money to spare at the moment, save it for retirement.

 

[EasterJoy]

The housekeeper - well the way I see it, we have a 16-year-old son, and a 14 -year-old, and a 13-year-old and they are fit and able to help around the house. There is no reason they should not be helping their mother with the yard work and lawn mowing, taking out the garbage, fixing little things around the house, carrying in the groceries. They can put away their own laundry. The fact that she has not made them responsible for these things is beyond me. I think it would lighten her “load” so to speak, but she claims they are too busy with school, homework and extracurricular activities. I do not think the laundry has been put away for two weeks and I am now living out of the dryer.

Our family was six boys and 2 girls. Making kids work is more work than doing it yourself. I do have a suggestion, though.

My grandfather hated milking the cow. My grandmother hated doing dishes at night, but she didn’t mind taking care of the cow. At night, as the story goes, Grandma would go outside and milk the cow. Grandpa would make the kids do the dishes. It worked well for both of them!

The biggest help you could do around the house is to teach the boys what you want them to do. Once they’ve learned, you delegate the work and you survey whether or not they are keeping up. You can let the 16 year old be your lieutenant, if one is needed, or that job can rotate among the older boys.

I suggest you teach the 16 year old to grocery shop, by the way. He doesn’t have to scan for deals, but he ought to be able to read a list and bring home the usual suspects. Nobody drives the car without learning to become a competent grocery shopper. Once you train him, you can train helpers for him, if he so desires. (No more than one helper at a time, though. Give those poor store managers a break!)

Also, you can teach the boys to cook. I once rented a room where part of my payment was washing X number of windows on a rotating basis and providing one evening meal per week. If I wasn’t going to be there, I had a salad made and a casserole ready to go into the oven, plus of course my mess was cleaned up. (The lady of the house had a rule: If you don’t have time to clean up after yourself, you don’t have time to eat.)

Boys who can’t cook, grocery shop, and take care of a home are not ready for college. That way, if they find themselves a really good Catholic girl who doesn’t know how, they can teach her to cook themselves. Heaven knows, they have to be able to look after themselves if they’re ordained, too.

One caveat: Your dear wife is going to have to decide which of her standards is really important. God gave her help, but He didn’t give her girls. She’s going to have to make the best of that.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

Our family was six boys and 2 girls. Making kids work is more work than doing it yourself. I do have a suggestion, though.

My grandfather hated milking the cow. My grandmother hated doing dishes at night, but she didn’t mind taking care of the cow. At night, as the story goes, Grandma would go outside and milk the cow. Grandpa would make the kids do the dishes. It worked well for both of them!

The biggest help you could do around the house is to teach the boys what you want them to do. Once they’ve learned, you delegate the work and you survey whether or not they are keeping up. You can let the 16 year old be your lieutenant, if one is needed, or that job can rotate among the older boys.

I suggest you teach the 16 year old to grocery shop, by the way. He doesn’t have to scan for deals, but he ought to be able to read a list and bring home the usual suspects. Nobody drives the car without learning to become a competent grocery shopper. Once you train him, you can train helpers for him, if he so desires. (No more than one helper at a time, though. Give those poor store managers a break!)

Also, you can teach the boys to cook. I once rented a room where part of my payment was washing X number of windows on a rotating basis and providing one evening meal per week. If I wasn’t going to be there, I had a salad made and a casserole ready to go into the oven, plus of course my mess was cleaned up. (The lady of the house had a rule: If you don’t have time to clean up after yourself, you don’t have time to eat.)

Boys who can’t cook, grocery shop, and take care of a home are not ready for college. That way, if they find themselves a really good Catholic girl who doesn’t know how, they can teach her to cook themselves. Heaven knows, they have to be able to look after themselves if they’re ordained, too.

One caveat: Your dear wife is going to have to decide which of her standards is really important. God gave her help, but He didn’t give her girls. She’s going to have to make the best of that.

 

[Viki63]

In the medical field, pain is defined as what the patient says it is.
If your wife says she’s burned out, she’s had enough, then she is.
Give her the respect of believing her.
And make a list of chores for those boys to do, including the smallest. A 3 year old can set the table.
God bless.

 

[RolandSimms]

Hi all… Thanks for bearing with me while I work through this. I have been praying fervently to St. Gerard and St. Anne about this situation. I think I have some ideas.

First… To answer some of your questions:
-I cannot work less. I run a business and my 70+ hours per week is necessary. I wish I could take time off to loaf around Unfortunately, in my line of work and with my family size, I need to put in those hours. It was the deal my wife and I made when we got married, and I’m fulfilling my end of the bargain. It’s hard - I won’t lie - but I do it because I’m committed to my family and my job.

-The boys could help out more, although my wife is getting sick of yelling at them and nagging them to clean up. They are busy kids with school, sports, etc. I do need to talk to them about taking on some of the yard work and “heavy lifting” around the house.

-My wife is not depressed or at her wit’s end. She says she’s ready to “move on” from the baby making time in her life. She said she doesn’t want to ever be pregnant again. She says she’s tired and sick of it and happy with the family she has. In no way do I think she’s crazy or about to “lose it” or anything.

-I definitely do my part by working and bringing in the income. When I get home, I need to unwind and destress. I can’t come home and jump into chores after working sometimes for 12 or 13 hours. Again, this was the deal my wife and I made. She gets to stay home with the children and care for our home, and I have to work to earn money. She might not like the deal she made, but it’s the way it is.

-I do not treat my wife as a baby factory at all. Bringing precious life into this world is our obligation as married Catholics. I know my wife would love and adore another child if she had one. She’s just, for what I think are somewhat selfish reasons, not open to life anymore. We might not have too many years of fertility left, on her part, and I want to make sure we hear God’s call to bring life forth into the world. At one time, we were prepared to accept ANY AND ALL children that God saw fit to send to us. Now, she’s “done.” I’m still heeding the call.

Yes, folks, I am frustrated. After working so hard for so long, I did not think I would be dealing with apostasy in my own marital bed. I am, frankly, not willing to go back to NFP. With my wife’s irregular cycles, it often meant up to 20+ days a month of abstinence. We’re married and I need to share intimacy with my wife. I am not sure how I could get through life without the release that intimacy provides for me. To know that there were certain days I could not ask my wife for intimacy would be really painful for me, and would make me grumpy.

I’m not sure where to go from here. My wife is “done.” She does not want to use NFP, and frankly, even if she tried I would not be able to follow her many abstinent days. She says the most practical thing to do is for me to get a vasectomy. Of course, I refuse. She wants me to wear condoms. I will not. She is threatening to get a tubal ligation. I have told her she will burn in the fires of Hell for eternity if she does so. This is such a sad, sad situation. I love my wife and want so much for her to have salvation.

Roland

 

[Kelfa28]

-I definitely do my part by working and bringing in the income. When I get home, I need to unwind and destress. I can’t come home and jump into chores after working sometimes for 12 or 13 hours. Again, this was the deal my wife and I made. She gets to stay home with the children and care for our home, and I have to work to earn money. She might not like the deal she made, but it’s the way it is.

Her job is not 12 or 13 hours a day. If it was, the house would be a total disaster and the kids wouldn’t be fed or taken care of. Her job is 24 hours a day and 7 days a week. Frankly, she works more then you do.

Yes, folks, I am frustrated. After working so hard for so long, I did not think I would be dealing with apostasy in my own marital bed. I am, frankly, not willing to go back to NFP. With my wife’s irregular cycles, it often meant up to 20+ days a month of abstinence. We’re married and I need to share intimacy with my wife. I am not sure how I could get through life without the release that intimacy provides for me. To know that there were certain days I could not ask my wife for intimacy would be really painful for me, and would make me grumpy.

I’m not sure where to go from here. My wife is “done.” She does not want to use NFP, and frankly, even if she tried I would not be able to follow her many abstinent days. She says the most practical thing to do is for me to get a vasectomy. Of course, I refuse. She wants me to wear condoms. I will not. She is threatening to get a tubal ligation. I have told her she will burn in the fires of Hell for eternity if she does so. This is such a sad, sad situation. I love my wife and want so much for her to have salvation. Roland

The way I see it, you are putting her in Hell if you refuse to abstain with her. This cross should not be hers to bear, it’s both of yours at the end of the day. You both agreed to use NFP and your choices are to either get help and take NFP classes to help figure out her charts or you abstain. There is a reason why she wants to get her tubes tide. I think you are putting her in an impossible situation.

 

[Castello]

Sit your sons down and tell them, “You will not disrespect my wife. You live in this house, you will help with chores. Here is the list (it is more than “heavy lifting”, they need to be assisting in all the aspects of running the house.). If you do not assist with your household duties, there will be NO sports, no clubs, no fun.”

To call it apostasy when your wife wants help with the housework is boggling. Get the woman some help.

As far as “burning in hell fire for all eternity”, unless God died and gave you the job of judging souls, you cannot make that determination.

Please, get to Retrouvaille.

 

[jilly4ski]

• I am, frankly, not willing to go back to NFP. With my wife’s irregular cycles, it often meant up to 20+ days a month of abstinence. We’re married and I need to share intimacy with my wife. I am not sure how I could get through life without the release that intimacy provides for me. To know that there were certain days I could not ask my wife for intimacy would be really painful for me, and would make me grumpy.

Roland

I was not one who said you thought of your wife this way and did believe it, but this sentence concerns me. This shows that you might indeed see your wife as a ‘baby factory’ or maybe more accurately a means for your release. You are not willing to abstain and obviously right moral judgement says you cannot use ABC’s or sterilization. This is where your problem lies. There are other ways to express intimacy than sex.
(obviously this might be moot if your wife refuses to use it as well)

Other things I noticed about your post. You say you need time to unwind after work, well guess what your wife never gets time to unwind, until the kids go to bed. (I bet she actually doesn’t even then, because she is up late doing chores or projects, or the older kids are now up just as late).

She might not be depressed or at her wits end, but she is showing your her strong/tough side. She is probably scared about what another pregnancy at this stage of her life will do to her body and emotions. I have heard of many women who around 40 really feel like they slow down and get tired much more quickly than they did before. Your wife might be feeling this way.

Now I am not saying your wife is perfect or even right, but I do notice you are trying to take the high moral ground saying you are following God’s will etc. But you don’t know this. God could be saying that you are your wife are done having children and you should abstain, this is something you and your wife need to discern** together in prayer**. Did it occur to you that you might be reacting like this for selfish reasons (marital relations whenever you want them)? I am not saying that you are (as marital relations are an integral part of a marriage). But there are some seasons of marriage where marital relations and indeed child bearing take a back seat. Sometimes perimenopause and the onset of menopause are one of those times. The woman is trying to figure out her body again, her desires might be less, she might have some other physical issues related to the change of hormones, etc.

I personally have had a super tough 1st and 2nd trimester of this pregnancy (my third). I have been nauseated almost the entire time, with a super sensitive gag reflex, and very exhausted. This has meant that relations with my husband have been infrequent, and he has been wonderful and suffered willingly right along side me.

I will pray for you and your marriage.

 

[mini_me640]

Hi all… Thanks for bearing with me while I work through this. I have been praying fervently to St. Gerard and St. Anne about this situation. I think I have some ideas.

First… To answer some of your questions:
-I cannot work less. I run a business and my 70+ hours per week is necessary. I wish I could take time off to loaf around Unfortunately, in my line of work and with my family size, I need to put in those hours. It was the deal my wife and I made when we got married, and I’m fulfilling my end of the bargain. It’s hard - I won’t lie - but I do it because I’m committed to my family and my job.

-The boys could help out more, although my wife is getting sick of yelling at them and nagging them to clean up. They are busy kids with school, sports, etc. I do need to talk to them about taking on some of the yard work and “heavy lifting” around the house.

-My wife is not depressed or at her wit’s end. She says she’s ready to “move on” from the baby making time in her life. She said she doesn’t want to ever be pregnant again. She says she’s tired and sick of it and happy with the family she has. In no way do I think she’s crazy or about to “lose it” or anything.

How do you know she’s not at her wits end? She may likely feel she can’t be honest with you about her feelings judging from the way you talk on this thread.

-I definitely do my part by working and bringing in the income. When I get home, I need to unwind and destress. I can’t come home and jump into chores after working sometimes for 12 or 13 hours. Again, this was the deal my wife and I made. She gets to stay home with the children and care for our home, and I have to work to earn money. She might not like the deal she made, but it’s the way it is.

Your wife has to keep working after 12 hours. I also don’t like your phrasing that she GETS to stay home while you HAVE to work, as if her end is easier than yours.

-I do not treat my wife as a baby factory at all. Bringing precious life into this world is our obligation as married Catholics. I know my wife would love and adore another child if she had one. She’s just, for what I think are somewhat selfish reasons, not open to life anymore. We might not have too many years of fertility left, on her part, and I want to make sure we hear God’s call to bring life forth into the world. At one time, we were prepared to accept ANY AND ALL children that God saw fit to send to us. Now, she’s “done.” I’m still heeding the call.

Yes, folks, I am frustrated. After working so hard for so long, I did not think I would be dealing with apostasy in my own marital bed. I am, frankly, not willing to go back to NFP. With my wife’s irregular cycles, it often meant up to 20+ days a month of abstinence. We’re married and I need to share intimacy with my wife. I am not sure how I could get through life without the release that intimacy provides for me. To know that there were certain days I could not ask my wife for intimacy would be really painful for me, and would make me grumpy.

Your refusal to use NFP because of your need for “release” is selfish on your part. Having another child is painful for your wife, and might make her grumpy, but you say that’s no reason not to. Why is it all about your feelings?

I’m not sure where to go from here. My wife is “done.” She does not want to use NFP, and frankly, even if she tried I would not be able to follow her many abstinent days. She says the most practical thing to do is for me to get a vasectomy. Of course, I refuse. She wants me to wear condoms. I will not. She is threatening to get a tubal ligation. I have told her she will burn in the fires of Hell for eternity if she does so. This is such a sad, sad situation. I love my wife and want so much for her to have salvation.

Maybe if you would get her some help, stop pressuring her, and agree to use NFP she would reconsider. The pressure of it all is surely making it difficult to see clearly for her. Also sterilization is not unforgiveable do threatening her with hell is quite presumptuous and mean quite frankly.
Roland

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

Hi all… Thanks for bearing with me while I work through this. I have been praying fervently to St. Gerard and St. Anne about this situation. I think I have some ideas.

First… To answer some of your questions:
-I cannot work less. I run a business and my 70+ hours per week is necessary. I wish I could take time off to loaf around Unfortunately, in my line of work and with my family size, I need to put in those hours. It was the deal my wife and I made when we got married, and I’m fulfilling my end of the bargain. It’s hard - I won’t lie - but I do it because I’m committed to my family and my job.

-The boys could help out more, although my wife is getting sick of yelling at them and nagging them to clean up. They are busy kids with school, sports, etc. I do need to talk to them about taking on some of the yard work and “heavy lifting” around the house.

-My wife is not depressed or at her wit’s end. She says she’s ready to “move on” from the baby making time in her life. She said she doesn’t want to ever be pregnant again. She says she’s tired and sick of it and happy with the family she has. In no way do I think she’s crazy or about to “lose it” or anything.

-I definitely do my part by working and bringing in the income. When I get home, I need to unwind and destress. I can’t come home and jump into chores after working sometimes for 12 or 13 hours. Again, this was the deal my wife and I made. She gets to stay home with the children and care for our home, and I have to work to earn money. She might not like the deal she made, but it’s the way it is.

-I do not treat my wife as a baby factory at all. Bringing precious life into this world is our obligation as married Catholics. I know my wife would love and adore another child if she had one. She’s just, for what I think are somewhat selfish reasons, not open to life anymore. We might not have too many years of fertility left, on her part, and I want to make sure we hear God’s call to bring life forth into the world. At one time, we were prepared to accept ANY AND ALL children that God saw fit to send to us. Now, she’s “done.” I’m still heeding the call.

Yes, folks, I am frustrated. After working so hard for so long, I did not think I would be dealing with apostasy in my own marital bed. I am, frankly, not willing to go back to NFP. With my wife’s irregular cycles, it often meant up to 20+ days a month of abstinence. We’re married and I need to share intimacy with my wife. I am not sure how I could get through life without the release that intimacy provides for me. To know that there were certain days I could not ask my wife for intimacy would be really painful for me, and would make me grumpy.

I’m not sure where to go from here. My wife is “done.” She does not want to use NFP, and frankly, even if she tried I would not be able to follow her many abstinent days. She says the most practical thing to do is for me to get a vasectomy. Of course, I refuse. She wants me to wear condoms. I will not. She is threatening to get a tubal ligation. I have told her she will burn in the fires of Hell for eternity if she does so. This is such a sad, sad situation. I love my wife and want so much for her to have salvation.

Roland

Frankly, Roland, the more you write the more selfish you sound. At this point I feel nothing but pity for your spouse.

Where you and your wife go from here is to the office of a good and holy priest who can advise both of you. You need pastoral care of the kind we cannot provide on this forum.

BTW: if you’ve got the kind of time it takes to write extended postings like this, you’ve got time help your wife instill more discipline in your seven children or at the very least fold up some laundry from the dryer.

Luna

 

[Castello]

Frankly, Roland, the more you write the more selfish you sound. At this point I feel nothing but pity for your spouse.

Where you and your wife go from here is to the office of a good and holy priest who can advise both of you. You need pastoral care of the kind we cannot provide on this forum.

BTW: if you’ve got the kind of time it takes to write extended postings like this, you’ve got time help your wife instill more your seven children or at the very least fold up some laundry from the dryer.

Luna

Where is the clapping smiley?