Hi!

[RolandSimms]

Frankly, Roland, the more you write the more selfish you sound. At this point I feel nothing but pity for your spouse.

Where you and your wife go from here is to the office of a good and holy priest who can advise both of you. You need pastoral care of the kind we cannot provide on this forum.

BTW: if you’ve got the kind of time it takes to write extended postings like this, you’ve got time help your wife instill more discipline in your seven children or at the very least fold up some laundry from the dryer.

Luna

Wow. You seem to have misunderstood me. I apologize for lacking clarity. My wife, who is supposed to be Catholic, is giving me two options: one of us get sterilized or use condoms OR stop having marital relations. As I see it, both are grievous sins that would likely end in the destruction of our holy union.

Right now Patricia is going through a hard time. I do appreciate that. She’s acting out. I humbly submit as her spouse to most of her whims. But this is going too far and asking me to possibly condemn the BOTH of us to the fires of Hell.

In days of yore, mothers took care of all the household duties with nary a modern convenience. Patricia has a dishwasher, a washing machine, a dryer, a computer, hot water, an automobile… My grandmother had 11 children in the early 1900s, lived without electricity OR indoor plumbing and never hired a day’s worth of work out. Never ordered food from a restaurant. Never used an automobile! She took pride in her vocation as mother and wife, took pride in her housekeeping and cooking. She not only kept an immaculate home, put three squares on the table every single day of her life, and raised 11 children (three of whom went on to religious vocations), but she hand sewed all the clothing for her family, got water from a well every day, and did needlepoint.

You can’t tell me that my wife is “done” and “over it” and “burned out” when the women of yesteryear endured so much more and raised what would become THE GREATEST GENERATION.

 

[Castello]

I think I smell a troll.

IF you are for real, you do know that your grandmother had extend family (HER mother, aunts, sisters) and others in the community who all worked together, right? You know that those kids would not have been lounging around at soccer practice but they would have been working from sunup to sundown? That your greatgrandfather did not come home in the evening and “unwind” with his computer or electronic devices?

 

[jilly4ski]

I think I smell a troll.

IF you are for real, you do know that your grandmother had extend family (HER mother, aunts, sisters) and others in the community who all worked together, right? You know that those kids would not have been lounging around at soccer practice but they would have been working from sunup to sundown? That your greatgrandfather did not come home in the evening and “unwind” with his computer or electronic devices?

Indeed, people didn’t bath everyday, they didn’t change clothes everyday thus less laundry, and less clothes (probably 3 outfits tops, 2 everyday and one Sunday outfit), not to mention the clothes got let out as kids grew. They didn’t have to shop very often or run as many errands. When husband came home from work he would chop wood or get the coal to put in the stove, build up the fire, pump or fetch water, and a host of other chores. He didn’t get to unwind from work or coming in from the fields.

OP, you show no honor and respect for what your wife does everyday, 24hrs a day, as you said before she was still getting up with the youngest, whereas you only have to work 12hr days, 5 days a week.

 

[mini_me640]

Wow. You seem to have misunderstood me. I apologize for lacking clarity. My wife, who is supposed to be Catholic, is giving me two options: one of us get sterilized or use condoms OR stop having marital relations. As I see it, both are grievous sins that would likely end in the destruction of our holy union.

**What you fail to see even after pointed out by many others, is that she likely feels you are backing her into a corner. Since you have stated that you will not use periodic abstinence (NFP), the Church’s approved method of child spacing because you need the “release” as you so kindly put it of sex whenever you want, she probably feels like she has to choose between having another child (and possibly more) in the near future that she doesn’t think she can handle, or doing something drastic. Obviously, contraception and sterlization are not options in our Church, so I’m not defending her proposed usage, just suggesting that you may have pressured her into a situation she feels she can’t win. You, who are “suposed to be Catholic” are supposed to love your wife AS CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH, SACRIFICING HIMSELF FOR HER. You seem to refuse to do that even in the practice of NFP. Your selfishness is also likely to destroy your holy union. **

Right now Patricia is going through a hard time. I do appreciate that. She’s acting out. I humbly submit as her spouse to most of her whims. But this is going too far and asking me to possibly condemn the BOTH of us to the fires of Hell.

**Again, the use of contraception/sterilization is not to be defended here. But if you realize she’s going through a hard time, why do you begrudge her even a little help with the household chores every other week to lighten her load? **

In days of yore, mothers took care of all the household duties with nary a modern convenience. Patricia has a dishwasher, a washing machine, a dryer, a computer, hot water, an automobile… My grandmother had 11 children in the early 1900s, lived without electricity OR indoor plumbing and never hired a day’s worth of work out. Never ordered food from a restaurant. Never used an automobile! She took pride in her vocation as mother and wife, took pride in her housekeeping and cooking. She not only kept an immaculate home, put three squares on the table every single day of her life, and raised 11 children (three of whom went on to religious vocations), but she hand sewed all the clothing for her family, got water from a well every day, and did needlepoint.

**Your grandmother probably had daughters somewhere in those 11 children? My mom came from a large family as well, but her two oldest sisters did as much in raising the 3 youngest children and taking care of the household chores as her mother did. Your comparison of your wife to your grandmother is disrespectful because you seem to imply that your wife does not take pride in her vocation. Also, good chance your grandfather didn’t come home and “unwind” after a long day but rather did more work at home such as gardening, caring for animals, etc. Additionally, your grandmother did not have to chauffeur her children to and from school and extracurricular activities every day either in addition to her work at home. My grandfather literally worked 14 hours a day, 6 days a week. Do you know what he did to “unwind”? He kept a garden. So he worked all the time too. **

You can’t tell me that my wife is “done” and “over it” and “burned out” when the women of yesteryear endured so much more and raised what would become THE GREATEST GENERATION.

Quite frankly, I’m not sold on “THE GREATEST GENERATION” actually being the greatest as both sets of my grandparents (well, mainly my grandfathers) were routinely physically abusive toward my parents and their siblings and my grandfathers were just generally cold men. However, each generation has its own pressures and difficulties and it is unfair to compare them. Would you want your wife comparing you with everyone she thinks has done a better job? And maybe what she’s really done and over with is your selfish attitude and lack of consideration for her since your love for her seems conditional on her doing everything the way you want to. Just a thought…

 

[CopyKat]

I think I smell a troll.

IF you are for real, you do know that your grandmother had extend family (HER mother, aunts, sisters) and others in the community who all worked together, right? You know that those kids would not have been lounging around at soccer practice but they would have been working from sunup to sundown? That your greatgrandfather did not come home in the evening and “unwind” with his computer or electronic devices?

Agreed. Each post is a little more out there. Reminds me of a thread last week where the same thing happened. If it’s legit, then Roland, see a priest with your wife. Please. But be prepared for him to have a lot of compassion for her.

 

[fgh_123]

This must be a troll. No one could be this unfeeling towards their wife?

 

[maryjk]

I’m not sure where to go from here. My wife is “done.” She does not want to use NFP, and frankly, even if she tried I would not be able to follow her many abstinent days. She says the most practical thing to do is for me to get a vasectomy. Of course, I refuse. She wants me to wear condoms. I will not. She is threatening to get a tubal ligation. I have told her she will burn in the fires of Hell for eternity if she does so. This is such a sad, sad situation. I love my wife and want so much for her to have salvation.

Roland

Wow. You seem to have misunderstood me. I apologize for lacking clarity. My wife, who is supposed to be Catholic, is giving me two options: one of us get sterilized or use condoms OR stop having marital relations. As I see it, both are grievous sins that would likely end in the destruction of our holy union…

Your wife has given you a Church approved option. But you can’t seem to control yourself.

You seem to see your wife as a baby making sex machine. There is nothing holy about that.

 

[aloe]

My heart is very sad for your wife and kids. NFP is church approved yet you refuse to exercise any self control and then you say you want your wife to be like your grandmother around 100 years ago when you didn’t really even know all the full dynamics as you weren’t around. And what are your own children learning from all of this? That isn’t the example I would want to show my sons to set them up for success in real life and to go into their own vocations as grown responsible compassionate adult men.
Please see a priest with your wife and get some counseling.

 

[SteveGC]

My wife, who is supposed to be Catholic, is giving me two options: one of us get sterilized or use condoms OR stop having marital relations. As I see it, both are grievous sins that would likely end in the destruction of our holy union.

I would highly doubt that abstinence in this situation is a grievous sin. In fact, I think this entire situation is your sign that you indeed have a justifiably serious reason to abstain. A priest would obviously be most qualified to ascertain that, but if this isn’t serious reason, I’m not sure what is. You do know that there are justifiable reasons to perpetually abstain, right?

And I’m pretty sure you’re not given the right to determine for both of you what constitutes a serious reason. You have your reasons that you bring to the table, she has hers. She’s not to disregard or dismiss your reasons, nor you, hers. But you seem to be completely dismissing hers, and deciding FOR HER that her reasons are not legitimately serious.

 

[TuAutem]

If therefore there are well-grounded reasons for spacing births, arising from the physical or psychological condition of husband or wife, or from external circumstances, the Church teaches that married people may then take advantage of the natural cycles immanent in the reproductive system and engage in marital intercourse only during those times that are infertile, thus controlling birth in a way which does not in the least offend the moral principles which We have just explained.

Humanae Vitae, 16, emphasis mine.

Troll or not, I wanted to make the point clear that the Church’s teaching is that married couples are welcomed, in fact encouraged, to use their reason in deciding whether to have more children or not, and psychological stress is a valid reason to avoid conception, even if only one party is experiencing it.

Moreover, the teaching that the unitive and procreative aspects of the conjugal act should not be separated cuts both ways: it is immoral to have unitive conjugal relations with no procreative aspects, but it is just as immoral to have procreative conjugal relations solely for the gratification of one party.

“Men rightly observe that a conjugal act imposed on one’s partner without regard to his or her condition or personal and reasonable wishes in the matter, is no true act of love, and therefore offends the moral order” (ibid. 13).

This is why there is so much natural revulsion expressed here to the words “to know that there were certain days I could not ask my wife for intimacy would be really painful for me, and would make me grumpy.” While on some level, as selfish sinners we can all relate, it is a sentiment that puts the husband’s personal pleasure ahead of what is pleasing to the wife, and ahead of what is pleasing to God. That these desires are sinful is borne out by all the bad fruit they are producing in this marriage: resentment between spouses and a desire to descend into a graver sin in order to fulfill these urges.

 

[MaryHelene]

I honestly don’t know what to say to a man who won’t accept that his wife is “done” after SEVEN BOYS - coupled with a husband who thinks he is above housework.

You do realize that 100 years ago, your wife might very well have been dead by this point in her life…right? And the whole discussion about having more children would REALLY be moot!

 

[cviolette]

Wow! I hope he is a troll. I can’t imagine a man being so clueless.

You oldest is 16. Does he have a drivers license? I can’t imagine all the driving your wife was to do with 7 kids involved in sports. I use to spend 3-4 hours a day driving my kids to their activities and there were only 4 children. Add in volunteering at the school, laundry, cooking, shopping, doctor, dentist ortho appointments and cleaning and I easily worked 12 hours a day with 4 kids.

And my husband was a workaholic. CEO of startup company. Long hours and traveled often. He still took care of the yard.

 

[PaulGH]

Roland,

If you are for real, I have a few replies to your latest post:

-I cannot work less. I run a business and my 70+ hours per week is necessary. I wish I could take time off to loaf around Unfortunately, in my line of work and with my family size, I need to put in those hours. It was the deal my wife and I made when we got married, and I’m fulfilling my end of the bargain. It’s hard - I won’t lie - but I do it because I’m committed to my family and my job.

I understand. I really, really do. And yet, probably there is a way that you *could *work less if it were necessary. You might make less income, or you might have to change to a different line of work, but I strongly suspect that it *is *possible.

-I definitely do my part by working and bringing in the income. When I get home, I need to unwind and destress. I can’t come home and jump into chores after working sometimes for 12 or 13 hours. Again, this was the deal my wife and I made. She gets to stay home with the children and care for our home, and I have to work to earn money. She might not like the deal she made, but it’s the way it is.

I would think that by the time you get home from 12 to 13 hours of work, your wife is probably ready to unwind and de-stress as well, after a long, hard day of taking care of the kids and the home. You stay that she “gets” to stay home, and I think I understand what you mean, because it is not easy for us as fathers to go away to work and be separated from our family all day. But I doubt that she is just lounging around all day while you are working hard. If she is, then that is a problem. But if the kids are getting clothed and fed, and if the house is getting cleaned at least from time to time, then my guess is that she is staying very busy.

I often work long hours too (though not 12-13 hours per day). And after I finish work in the evening, I have to jump right into a different kind of work – namely helping the kids with their homework, giving the kids their baths, cleaning up around the house, etc. It isn’t easy, and sure I would rather just unwind in the evenings, but hard work is what we are called to do as husbands and fathers, right?

Also, just because you and your wife made a “deal” years ago about how you would split up the responsibilities, doesn’t mean that you are both forever committed to that deal. “Deals” like this can and should be discussed and re-negotiated, so to speak, whenever circumstances change.

Yes, folks, I am frustrated. After working so hard for so long, I did not think I would be dealing with apostasy in my own marital bed. I am, frankly, not willing to go back to NFP. With my wife’s irregular cycles, it often meant up to 20+ days a month of abstinence. We’re married and I need to share intimacy with my wife. I am not sure how I could get through life without the release that intimacy provides for me. To know that there were certain days I could not ask my wife for intimacy would be really painful for me, and would make me grumpy.

No, abstinence isn’t easy. My wife and I recently had to abstain for an extended period of time, and it was certainly not easy. But it can be done, and if you have seven kids already and your wife does not feel that she can handle another one now, then I think you need to step up and make that sacrifice on behalf of your wife, as cheerfully as possible.

 

[Em_in_FL]

-I definitely do my part by working and bringing in the income. When I get home, I need to unwind and destress. I can’t come home and jump into chores after working sometimes for 12 or 13 hours. Again, this was the deal my wife and I made. She gets to stay home with the children and care for our home, and I have to work to earn money. She might not like the deal she made, but it’s the way it is.

WOW… I don’t think I’ve ever heard anything so harsh in my life! What happened to compromise in marriage? Is EVERYTHING always so absolute? Isn’t there opportunity for change and growth?

-I do not treat my wife as a baby factory at all.** Bringing precious life into this world is our obligation as married Catholics**. I know my wife would love and adore another child if she had one. She’s just, for what I think are somewhat selfish reasons, not open to life anymore. We might not have too many years of fertility left, on her part, and I want to make sure we hear God’s call to bring life forth into the world. At one time, we were prepared to accept ANY AND ALL children that God saw fit to send to us. Now, she’s “done.” I’m still heeding the call.

Your “obligation as married Catholics” isn’t simply to bring life into this world. It’s to love one another. That love has a sexual aspect, which is both procreative and unitive… morally those two aspects of marital sexuality cannot be torn apart (hence, the only acceptable way to avoid conception is through abstinence - either total or temporary with NFP). But, just because there is a sexual aspect of your marital relationship doesn’t mean it’s your “obligation” to bring more children into this world. This would imply infertile couples are not meeting their “obligation” and that’s CERTAINLY not the case.

Yes, folks, I am frustrated. After working so hard for so long, I did not think I would be dealing with apostasy in my own marital bed. I am, frankly, not willing to go back to NFP. With my wife’s irregular cycles, it often meant up to 20+ days a month of abstinence. We’re married and I need to share intimacy with my wife. I am not sure how I could get through life without the release that intimacy provides for me. To know that there were certain days I could not ask my wife for intimacy would be really painful for me, and would make me grumpy.

Wah. Too bad. Suck it up.
(Sorry, you’re whining.)

I’m not sure where to go from here. My wife is “done.” She does not want to use NFP, and frankly, even if she tried I would not be able to follow her many abstinent days. She says the most practical thing to do is for me to get a vasectomy. Of course, I refuse. She wants me to wear condoms. I will not. She is threatening to get a tubal ligation. I have told her she will burn in the fires of Hell for eternity if she does so. This is such a sad, sad situation. I love my wife and want so much for her to have salvation.

Roland

Consider sympathizing with her… maybe NFP is actually acceptable if you actually sympathized with her situation - which it’s obvious that you are not doing at this time.

Wow. You seem to have misunderstood me. I apologize for lacking clarity. My wife, who is supposed to be Catholic, is giving me two options: one of us get sterilized or use condoms OR stop having marital relations. As I see it, both are grievous sins that would likely end in the destruction of our holy union.

Right now Patricia is going through a hard time. I do appreciate that. She’s acting out. I humbly submit as her spouse to most of her whims. But this is going too far and asking me to possibly condemn the BOTH of us to the fires of Hell.

In days of yore, mothers took care of all the household duties with nary a modern convenience. Patricia has a dishwasher, a washing machine, a dryer, a computer, hot water, an automobile… My grandmother had 11 children in the early 1900s, lived without electricity OR indoor plumbing and never hired a day’s worth of work out. Never ordered food from a restaurant. Never used an automobile! She took pride in her vocation as mother and wife, took pride in her housekeeping and cooking. She not only kept an immaculate home, put three squares on the table every single day of her life, and raised 11 children (three of whom went on to religious vocations), but she hand sewed all the clothing for her family, got water from a well every day, and did needlepoint.

You can’t tell me that my wife is “done” and “over it” and “burned out” when the women of yesteryear endured so much more and raised what would become THE GREATEST GENERATION.

Oh - that makes a woman feel *FABULOUS *to be *compared *to others…
“My grandma could do it! Why can’t you?”
Good Lord! If you’re looking to turn your wife off… I think you nailed that one!

 

[RolandSimms]

I have really, really tried to pray about this and offer up the sacrifice of the Mass yesterday to this issue between me and my wife. I am really trying to be charitable here, but it seems like I keep being misunderstood or taken the wrong way. Obviously I am really not effectively portraying the gravity of the situation. It seems like some of you are upset with the way you’ve interpreted my words. I apologize for that.

Right now my wife has blocked access to herself and we are practicing abstinence against my wishes. Obviously this is not good for me, my health, our marriage, or our salvation, but clearly I cannot force her to do anything. I have submitted to her choice in body, but not in spirit, and I pray that the good Lord helps to open my wife’s eyes to how damaging her actions are.

Some of you have insinuated that I am disrespectful to my wife. Please be assured that my wife has my respect 100% of the time when she is not in serious error. This action, I cannot respect. If we never had another child, I would be fine, but it’s not our decision to make - it’s God’s. I don’t treat my wife like a factory, but neither do I believe that we should pick and choose when to have children based on our convenience or desire for a break. If she were not able to ever have another baby, I would still love her and submit to God’s will for our family.

Some of you have suggested that I am not teaching my boys how to do housework. Believe me when I say that my boys can do some of the yardwork, wash the car, sweep out the garage and other traditionally male-oriented chores. I know it’s popular to feminize boys these days and many people believe that boys and girls should be raised exactly the same. Girls in pants, boys playing with dolls, girls changing the oil, boys doing the ironing. My wife and I do not raise our boys this way. We raise them to be men with masculine instincts and habits. I see what our culture has achieved with the pervasive emasculation of boys and young men, and it is not good. You might be right that they could help out more. I will speak with them about it. They are definitely NOT allowed to disrespect their mother or treat her with rudeness - that we do not tolerate at all.

I am suffering here. My heart is broken and I feel that my marriage could be a total sham - built on promises not based in an earnest commitment to follow them through. I love my wife dearly, as Christ loved His church. I am just so very, very hurt and disappointed and frustrated. If my wife believes that we will be able to “work this out” (i.e. see things her way) while she is denying me my male needs, I don’t know what to say.

In charity,
Roland

 

[Em_in_FL]

Some of you have insinuated that I am disrespectful to my wife. Please be assured that my wife has my respect 100% of the time when she is not in serious error. This action, I cannot respect. If we never had another child, I would be fine, but it’s not our decision to make - it’s God’s. I don’t treat my wife like a factory, but neither do I believe that we should pick and choose when to have children based on our convenience or desire for a break. If she were not able to ever have another baby, I would still love her and submit to God’s will for our family.

I do not believe you are being disrespectful to your wife… but I do believe you two have a complete disconnect in terms of “responsible parenthood”.
Let me quote the Catechism a bit:

2368
A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality:

When it is a question of harmonizing married love with the responsible transmission of life, the morality of the behavior does not depend on sincere intention and evaluation of motives alone; but it must be determined by objective criteria, criteria drawn from the nature of the person and his acts, criteria that respect the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love; this is possible only if the virtue of married chastity is practiced with sincerity of heart.156

Now, if we look at this through your view of “responsible parenthood”… you seem to be implying that your wife’s desire to avoid more children is selfish. Maybe it is, maybe it’s not. From an outsiders view (mine and many other posters here) what you have written shows us that she doesn’t appear to be selfish whatsoever. Obviously we are only working with what you have written, but still I could only see someone who is selfLESS who could take on what your wife does.
Regardless… it’s something for you to pray about… your view of her life… and your “expectations” of her.
Something to pray about TOGETHER.

I am suffering here. My heart is broken and I feel that my marriage could be a total sham - built on promises not based in an earnest commitment to follow them through. I love my wife dearly, as Christ loved His church. I am just so very, very hurt and disappointed and frustrated. If my wife believes that we will be able to “work this out” (i.e. see things her way) while she is denying me my male needs, I don’t know what to say.

In charity,
Roland

Your marriage vows were to love, honor, and respect one another…
Making up additional requirements (as in, having as many children as YOU want) was your *own *doing, not God’s. You’re not breaking a vow to God by discussing whether it’s prudent to avoid conception for a valid reason. That was YOUR idea of marriage 19 years ago. God’s plans are not always our own.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Some of you have suggested that I am not teaching my boys how to do housework. Believe me when I say that my boys can do some of the yardwork, wash the car, sweep out the garage and other traditionally male-oriented chores. I know it’s popular to feminize boys these days and many people believe that boys and girls should be raised exactly the same. Girls in pants, boys playing with dolls, girls changing the oil, boys doing the ironing.

You do realize that washing the car cleaning the garage etc are not chores that are normally done daily, the oil is changed every two thousand miles. I have no idea how to do that, so it goes to mechanic.

7 boys means constant laundry. Most should be able to put away their clothes and put a load of laundry on.

Three meals a day for seven. The boys can make their own lunches, they can clean up after themselves when they use the shower and the bathroom. Clean up after dinner, wash and put away dishes. Boys can cook or help cook. And they can clean their own rooms.

These things are no way feminine. You are not doing your sons any service by not permitting them to be self sufficient.

 

[dailey]

I read much of this entire thread. Am I correct in understanding you have not talked to your priest about this?

 

[maryjk]

I have really, really tried to pray about this and offer up the sacrifice of the Mass yesterday to this issue between me and my wife. I am really trying to be charitable here, but it seems like I keep being misunderstood or taken the wrong way. Obviously I am really not effectively portraying the gravity of the situation. It seems like some of you are upset with the way you’ve interpreted my words. I apologize for that.

Right now my wife has blocked access to herself and we are practicing abstinence against my wishes. **Obviously this is not good for me, my health, **our marriage, or our salvation, but clearly I cannot force her to do anything. I have submitted to her choice in body, but not in spirit, and I pray that the good Lord helps to open my wife’s eyes to how damaging her actions are.

How is this not good for your health? You didn’t really believe all of your teenaged friends when they told you that you HAD to have sex, did you? You know there is no such thing as “blue balls,” right? I am not so sure that it isn’t good for your marriage. Until now your married seems to have consisted of you telling your wife what to do and her doing it. Now you have been questioned. I think that is a good thing. No one is always right.

Some of you have insinuated that I am disrespectful to my wife. **Please be assured that my wife has my respect 100% of the time when she is not in serious error. ** This action, I cannot respect. If we never had another child, I would be fine, but it’s not our decision to make - it’s God’s. I don’t treat my wife like a factory, but neither do I believe that we should pick and choose when to have children based on our convenience or desire for a break. If she were not able to ever have another baby, I would still love her and submit to God’s will for our family.

So you only respect your wife when she agrees with you? You are acting as though practicing NFP is making a decision over God. The Catholic Church tells couples that they can space children using NFP. She is not in serious error. You are in the wrong here.

Some of you have suggested that I am not teaching my boys how to do housework. Believe me when I say that my boys can do some of the yardwork, wash the car, sweep out the garage and other traditionally male-oriented chores. I know it’s popular to feminize boys these days and many people believe that boys and girls should be raised exactly the same. Girls in pants, boys playing with dolls, girls changing the oil, boys doing the ironing. My wife and I do not raise our boys this way. We raise them to be men with masculine instincts and habits.

If you are raising your boys with masculine habits and instincts, why are they not learning from you how to wash the car, mow the lawn? YOU should be doing these chores. If you have not taught them how to help YOU with these chores and you are relying on your wife doing these types of chores, you are not traditional. You across as simply selfish.

I see what our culture has achieved with the pervasive emasculation of boys and young men, and it is not good. You might be right that they could help out more. I will speak with them about it. They are definitely NOT allowed to disrespect their mother or treat her with rudeness - that we do not tolerate at all.

You are treating their mother with disrespect and rudeness. You are treating her like a baby making machine. Trust me when I say that they will learn more from your actions than from what you tell them.

I am suffering here. My heart is broken and I feel that my marriage could be a total sham - built on promises not based in an earnest commitment to follow them through. I love my wife dearly, as Christ loved His church. I am just so very, very hurt and disappointed and frustrated. If my wife believes that we will be able to “work this out” (i.e. see things her way) while she is denying me my male needs, I don’t know what to say.

In charity,
Roland

It seems that you only love your wife is she is willing to have sexual relations with you whenever YOU want. Guess what, if she has a good reason, she is allowed to say no. And the total disrespect you have for her is a very good reason. There are no such thing as “male needs.” What would you do if she was injured in such a way that she could no longer have relations? Would you leave her to find someone who could? What would you do about your so called “male needs?”

Again, I ask you…do you believe that your ticket to heaven is based on how many children you have? Do you believe that couples that have one, two or three children are never making it in?

 

[Em_in_FL]

Some of you have suggested that I am not teaching my boys how to do housework. Believe me when I say that my boys can do some of the yardwork, wash the car, sweep out the garage and other traditionally male-oriented chores. I know it’s popular to feminize boys these days and many people believe that boys and girls should be raised exactly the same. Girls in pants, boys playing with dolls, girls changing the oil,** boys doing the ironing. My wife and I do not raise our boys this way. We raise them to be men with masculine instincts and habits.** I see what our culture has achieved with the pervasive emasculation of boys and young men, and it is not good. You might be right that they could help out more. I will speak with them about it. They are definitely NOT allowed to disrespect their mother or treat her with rudeness - that we do not tolerate at all.

I SOMETIMES get the opportunity to iron my husbands shirts… I do so because I love him and thought it would be a nice gesture.
Normally he irons his own shirts.
This is not an issue of masculinity. That’s not raising “manly” boys… that’s raising boys who are not self-sufficient and put expectations on women that are not appropriate.