History is not necessarily what the European people wrote

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Hi

Mary was Jesus’ own responsiblity. As a courtesy, in my opinion, when Jesus was on the Cross, he told John to take care of her. When he was alright he took care of her himself;and that is but natural.

Thanks
And mohammed and buddha and play bridge against jim morrison and mr mojo risin. If you want to start making things up as you go along there is no end to the fun and no place to have a rational conversation.

Jesus died on the cross, the gospels tells so. To think otherwise
is so something that to enumerate it would be uncharitable.
 
What evidence do you have Jesus and Mary are buried in India?
Hi

God bless you. You are a Catholic; have a little patience for reading only some excerpts from Holger Kerston, a German research scholar.

Please Google for< Mary: Holger Kerston> .

Perhaps you don’t have much time so I give it here.

sol.com.au/kor/7_01.htm
Jesus Lived in India- Holger Kersten

Thus begins Holger Kersten’s book “Jesus Lived in India”. This German book is a thorough, methodical and authoritative examination of the evidence of Christ’s life beyond the Middle East before the Crucifixion and in India and elsewhere after it.
This article is a summary of Kersten’s exhaustive research into Christ’s travels after the Crucifixion, his arrival in India with the Mother Mary and finally his death and entombment in Kashmir. Kersten notes the many parallels of Christ’s teachings with other religious and cultural traditions and suggests that at least some of these figures may have been one and the same personality. It is not possible, Kersten asserts, to disprove that Christ went to India.

The current information documenting Christ’s life is restricted to the gospels and the work of Church theologians. One can hardly trust these sources to be objective considering their obvious interest in maintaining the authority of their Church and its grip on the masses.

The Russian scholar, Nicolai Notovich, was the first to suggest that Christ may have gone to India. In 1887, Notovich, a Russian scholar and Orientalist, arrived in Kashmir during one of several journeys to the Orient. At the Zoji-la pass Notovich was a guest in a Buddhist monastery, where a monk told him of the bhodisattva saint called “Issa”. Notovich was stunned by the remarkable parallels of Issa’s teachings and martyrdom with that of Christ’s life, teachings and crucifixion.

For about sixteen years, Christ travelled through Turkey, Persia, Western Europe and possibly England. He finally arrived with Mary to a place near Kashmir, where she died. After many years in Kashmir, teaching to an appreciative population, who venerated him as a great prophet, reformer and saint, he died and was buried in a tomb in Kashmir itself.

The many Islamic and Hindu historical works recording local history and legends of kings, noblemen and saints of the areas thought to be travelled by Jesus also give evidence of a Christ like man; the Koran, for example, refers to Christ as “Issar”. Further east, the Kurdish tribes of Eastern Anatolia have several stories describing Christ’s stay in Eastern Turkey after his resurrection. These traditional legends have been ignored by the theological community.

The Apocryphal ‘Acts of Thomas’, for example, tell how Christ met Thomas several times after the Crucifixion. In fact they tell us how Christ sent Thomas to teach his spirituality in India. This is corroborated by evidence found in the form of stone inscriptions at Fatehpur Sikri, near the Taj Mahal, in Northern India.

They include “Agrapha”, which are sayings of Christ that don’t exist in the mainstream Bible. Their grammatical form is most similar to that of the Apocryphal gospel of Thomas. This is but one example giving credibility to the idea that texts not recognised by the Church hold important clues about Christ’s true life and his teachings.

It is at Andrapolis that Christ entreated Thomas to go to India to begin spreading his teachings. It seems that Christ and Mary then moved along the West coast of Turkey, proof of this could be an old stopping place for travellers called the “Home of Mary”, found along the ancient silk route.

In his travels through Persia (today’s Iran) Christ became known as Yuz Asaf (leader of the Healed). We know this because a Kashmiri historical document confirms that Isa (the Koranic name for Christ) was in fact also known as Yuz Asaf. The Jami - uf - Tamarik, Volume II, tells that Yuz Asaf visited Masslige, where he attended the grave of Shem, Noah’s son. There are various other accounts such as Agha Mustafa’s “Awhali Shahaii-i-paras” that tell of Yuz Asaf’s travels and teachings all over Persia. It seems that Yuz Asaf blessed Afghanistan and Pakistan with his presence also.

There are for example two plains in Eastern Afghanistan near Gazni and Galalabad, bearing the name of the prophet Yuz Asaf. Again in the Apocryphal Acts of Thomas, Thomas says that he and Christ attended the Court of King Gundafor of Taxila (now Pakistan), in about 47AD, and that eventually both the King and his brother accepted Christ’s teachings.

continued on the next post
 
continued from the previous post

Kersten claims that there are more than twenty one historical documents that bear witness to the existence of Jesus in Kashmir, where he was known also as Yuz Asaf and Issa. For example the Bhavishyat Mahapurana (volume 9 verses 17-32) contains an account of Issa-Masih (Jesus the Messiah).

It describes Christ’s arrival in the Kashmir region of India and his encounter with King Shalivahana, who ruled the Kushan area (39-50AD), and who entertained Christ as a guest for some time.
{Christ’s life in India, after the crucifixion, challenges current Church teachings at their very foundation. The theology of Saint Paul, the major influence on modern Christianity, is empty fanaticism in the light of this discovery.

The historian Mullah Nadini (1413) also recounts a story of Yuz Asaf who was a contemporary to King Gopadatta, and confirms that he also used the name Issar, ie. Jesus. There is also much historical truth in the towns and villages of Northern India to prove that Jesus and his mother Mary spent time in the area.

For instance, at the border of a small town called Mari, there is nearby a mountain called Pindi Point, upon which is an old tomb called Mai Mari da Asthan or “The final resting place of Mary”. The tomb is said to be very old and local Muslims venerate it as the grave of Issa’s (ie Christ’s) Mother.

The tomb itself is oriented East-West consistent with the Jewish tradition, despite the fact it is within a Muslim area. Assuming its antiquity, such a tomb could not be Hindu either since the Hindus contemporary to Christ cremated their dead and scattered their ashes as do Hindus today.

sol.com.au/kor/7_01.htm

God bless you for your patience.

Thanks
 
I like how the title of this thread is “History is not necessarily what European people wrote”, uses Paul (a non-European person) as an example of how white European peoples’ view of history is wrong, and then follows it up by presenting the insane theory of a white European person as what is right!

:rotfl:

Be sure to stay tuned for these exciting programs, coming soon to the Muslim Comedy Channel here on CAF:

“Jesus: He is the Messiah and the Word of God, but we’re not really sure what that means”

“The Virgin Mary Hour with Dr. Planten: How to avoid the truth by pretending to not be able to read”

“The ‘That’s not True Islam’ Variety Hour” (Running 365 days a year, 24 hours a day!)

and my personal favorite…

“101 Questions you’ve always wanted to ask Allah but aren’t able to without being cast into hell for ever and ever”
 
Hi

God bless you. You are a Catholic; have a little patience for reading only some excerpts from Holger Kerston, a German research scholar.

Please Google for< Mary: Holger Kerston> .

Perhaps you don’t have much time so I give it here.

sol.com.au/kor/7_01.htm
Jesus Lived in India- Holger Kersten

Thus begins Holger Kersten’s book “Jesus Lived in India”. This German book is a thorough, methodical and authoritative examination of the evidence of Christ’s life beyond the Middle East before the Crucifixion and in India and elsewhere after it.
This article is a summary of Kersten’s exhaustive research into Christ’s travels after the Crucifixion, his arrival in India with the Mother Mary and finally his death and entombment in Kashmir. Kersten notes the many parallels of Christ’s teachings with other religious and cultural traditions and suggests that at least some of these figures may have been one and the same personality. It is not possible, Kersten asserts, to disprove that Christ went to India.

The current information documenting Christ’s life is restricted to the gospels and the work of Church theologians. One can hardly trust these sources to be objective considering their obvious interest in maintaining the authority of their Church and its grip on the masses.

The Russian scholar, Nicolai Notovich, was the first to suggest that Christ may have gone to India. In 1887, Notovich, a Russian scholar and Orientalist, arrived in Kashmir during one of several journeys to the Orient. At the Zoji-la pass Notovich was a guest in a Buddhist monastery, where a monk told him of the bhodisattva saint called “Issa”. Notovich was stunned by the remarkable parallels of Issa’s teachings and martyrdom with that of Christ’s life, teachings and crucifixion.

For about sixteen years, Christ travelled through Turkey, Persia, Western Europe and possibly England. He finally arrived with Mary to a place near Kashmir, where she died. After many years in Kashmir, teaching to an appreciative population, who venerated him as a great prophet, reformer and saint, he died and was buried in a tomb in Kashmir itself.

The many Islamic and Hindu historical works recording local history and legends of kings, noblemen and saints of the areas thought to be travelled by Jesus also give evidence of a Christ like man; the Koran, for example, refers to Christ as “Issar”. Further east, the Kurdish tribes of Eastern Anatolia have several stories describing Christ’s stay in Eastern Turkey after his resurrection. These traditional legends have been ignored by the theological community.

The Apocryphal ‘Acts of Thomas’, for example, tell how Christ met Thomas several times after the Crucifixion. In fact they tell us how Christ sent Thomas to teach his spirituality in India. This is corroborated by evidence found in the form of stone inscriptions at Fatehpur Sikri, near the Taj Mahal, in Northern India.

They include “Agrapha”, which are sayings of Christ that don’t exist in the mainstream Bible. Their grammatical form is most similar to that of the Apocryphal gospel of Thomas. This is but one example giving credibility to the idea that texts not recognised by the Church hold important clues about Christ’s true life and his teachings.

It is at Andrapolis that Christ entreated Thomas to go to India to begin spreading his teachings. It seems that Christ and Mary then moved along the West coast of Turkey, proof of this could be an old stopping place for travellers called the “Home of Mary”, found along the ancient silk route.

In his travels through Persia (today’s Iran) Christ became known as Yuz Asaf (leader of the Healed). We know this because a Kashmiri historical document confirms that Isa (the Koranic name for Christ) was in fact also known as Yuz Asaf. The Jami - uf - Tamarik, Volume II, tells that Yuz Asaf visited Masslige, where he attended the grave of Shem, Noah’s son. There are various other accounts such as Agha Mustafa’s “Awhali Shahaii-i-paras” that tell of Yuz Asaf’s travels and teachings all over Persia. It seems that Yuz Asaf blessed Afghanistan and Pakistan with his presence also.

There are for example two plains in Eastern Afghanistan near Gazni and Galalabad, bearing the name of the prophet Yuz Asaf. Again in the Apocryphal Acts of Thomas, Thomas says that he and Christ attended the Court of King Gundafor of Taxila (now Pakistan), in about 47AD, and that eventually both the King and his brother accepted Christ’s teachings.

continued on the next post
Your presumption is that Holger Kersten is credible. As far as I know his claims have not been verified by anyone else.
 
Hi

I am not much concerned with what happened to Paul and why? My concern are Jesus and Mary.

Do you know what happened to Jesus and Mary after the incident of Crucifixion, till they died?

There is nothing of historic value with Christians. So if others nations have recorded as Jesus and Mary went to their lands; that should be logically your concern. One is your Master Lord and the other is his mother Mary.

Since they both migrated from Judea; the European information of that age was buried under mythical debris created by Paul. I won’t start Paul bashing; but I can’t resist of telling what other nations of the time had recorded about Jesus and Mary.

Please be patient.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

Jesus also went to:​

  • England
  • The USA
  • Rome
  • The South of France
    Apparently he died in Rome - as well as dying in France. Whether these death were before or after He died in Kashmir, Rome & Southern France, is not clear. And there is more debris of myth…
Since He was also
  • Julius Caesar
  • alive in about 100 BC
  • non-existent
  • Mithras
  • based on the god Horus
    it’s much simpler just to believe the gospels & the NT.
 
Hi

God bless you. You are a Catholic; have a little patience for reading only some excerpts from Holger Kerston, a German research scholar.

Please Google for< Mary: Holger Kerston> .

Perhaps you don’t have much time so I give it here.

sol.com.au/kor/7_01.htm
Jesus Lived in India- Holger Kersten
How about this quote:

“However, Notovitch’s book remained available in libraries, and later researchers “discovered” the book without being aware of its earlier history, or of the fact that Notovitch had been discredited. For example, Holger Kersten wrote a book entitled “Jesus Lived in India” which is largely based on Notovitch’s book. Kersten is apparently completely oblivious to the history of the controversy over Notovitch’s work

fromthis website.
 
Any Chinese people reading the title of this thread would probably snort tea out their noses! 😃
 
Thus begins Holger Kersten’s book “Jesus Lived in India”. This German book is a thorough, methodical and authoritative examination of the evidence of Christ’s life beyond the Middle East before the Crucifixion and in India and elsewhere after it.
This article is a summary of Kersten’s exhaustive research into Christ’s travels after the Crucifixion, his arrival in India with the Mother Mary and finally his death and entombment in Kashmir.
As I mentioned in my previous post: LIES, LIES, LIES.

Now, the devil is the father of lies. It follows therefore that the devil inspired Holger Kersten’s book. And if you are following Holger Kersten then you are following the devil. Be very afraid.

I cannot say it any plainer than that.
 
I cannot say it any plainer than that.
Hi

God bless you! Please don’t get furious. Have a little rest; and then research the things once again when you get cool.

Don’t believe, in my opinion, anything with a blind faith; neither of the past, nor of the present, Jesus does not want that.

Jesus and Mary wanted that everyone should believe things after making a research and providing eyes and ears to one’s faith. That is why they both of them travelled to so far-off a places like Persia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kashmir, Tibet and India; and all perhaps on foot and died a natural and peaceful death in India.

Since, you love Jesus and Mary; you should read anything about them which other nations had recorded in the history very closely and intently. That would be paying a good tribute to both of them.

Peace; no compulsion

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

Thanks
 
Hi

God bless you! Please don’t get furious. Have a little rest; and then research the things once again when you get cool.

Don’t believe, in my opinion, anything with a blind faith; neither of the past, nor of the present, Jesus does not want that.

Jesus and Mary wanted that everyone should believe things after making a research and providing eyes and ears to one’s faith. That is why they both of them travelled to so far-off a places like Persia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kashmir, Tibet and India; and all perhaps on foot and died a natural and peaceful death in India.

Since, you love Jesus and Mary; you should read anything about them which other nations had recorded in the history very closely and intently. That would be paying a good tribute to both of them.

Peace; no compulsion

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

Thanks
The truth about Jesus and Mary can only be found in HOLY SCRIPTURE and in our HOLY TRADITION. Anything else is of the devil. And if you want to follow him, well that is your choice. But you cannot make excuses later on that you did not know, because you have already been warned.

YOU do the research so that you may not be led astray.
 
Hi

God bless you! Please don’t get furious. Have a little rest; and then research the things once again when you get cool.

Don’t believe, in my opinion, anything with a blind faith; neither of the past, nor of the present, Jesus does not want that.

Jesus and Mary wanted that everyone should believe things after making a research and providing eyes and ears to one’s faith. That is why they both of them travelled to so far-off a places like Persia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kashmir, Tibet and India; and all perhaps on foot and died a natural and peaceful death in India.

Since, you love Jesus and Mary; you should read anything about them which other nations had recorded in the history very closely and intently. That would be paying a good tribute to both of them.

Peace; no compulsion

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

Thanks
Hi paarsurrey,
long time no hear from, good to see you back here.
Anyway, i can see your beliefs have not changed.
I will give you a word of advice. I think you should read sources other than what your religion has given you.
Catholic.com is a great source to read about the history of the Catholic church.
 
Hi paarsurrey,
long time no hear from, good to see you back here.

Catholic.com is a great source to read about the history of the Catholic church.
Hi dear dolphinlove!

Thanks for remembering me. I like Catholics and Catholics.com; fine people. I am benefitted from the knowledge of the learned people who write here. I am open for anybody to convince me to his side with reasonable , rational and logical arguments.

I am patient for learning and you know that. For the mythical concepts; sorry, I cannot accept them. For the real Jesus and Mary; I would embrace them with open arms. That is why I have accepted **Second Coming **1835-1908.

I love Jesus and Mary as I love Buddha and Krishna.

Regards
 
Hi dear dolphinlove!

Thanks for remembering me. I like Catholics and Catholics.com; fine people. I am benefitted from the knowledge of the learned people who write here. I am open for anybody to convince me to his side with reasonable , rational and logical arguments.

I am patient for learning and you know that. For the mythical concepts; sorry, I cannot accept them. For the real Jesus and Mary; I would embrace them with open arms. That is why I have accepted **Second Coming **1835-1908.

I love Jesus and Mary as I love Buddha and Krishna.

Regards
But Muhammad said there would be no ‘prophets’ after him? Why do you believe in the second coming prophet?
 
But Muhammad said there would be no ‘prophets’ after him? Why do you believe in the second coming prophet?
Hi

Our friend dolphinlove has asked a good and valid question. I think, it is a new subject and would be off-topic here; so I start a new thread:

"Muhammad said there would be no ‘prophets’ after him?" dolphinlove says

Everybody is welcome to give (name removed by moderator)uts in this new thread.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.

Thanks dolphinlove.
 
What evidence do you have Jesus and Mary are buried in India?
Hi

I think I should provide more evidence on Jesus and Mary living and dieing naturally and peacefully in India.

This evidence is from a documentary from the BBC.One may google for it or access the link below:

Did Jesus die on the Cross? a BBC documentary:
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1669658378154953060&q

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.

Thanks
 
Hi

I think I should provide more evidence on Jesus and Mary living and dieing naturally and peacefully in India.

This evidence is from a documentary from the BBC.One may google for it or access the link below:

Did Jesus die on the Cross? a BBC documentary:
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1669658378154953060&q

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.

Thanks
Ok. I read through the stuff you posted earlier as I promised and now I have watched this video and done some research on Herr Kersten.

First the video. The video (and much of the written works) are based on an account by someone called Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani (A.S.) who claimed that Allah told him that Jesus died a natural death. While interesting, it is not based on any actual facts.

With Herr Kersten, he notices some of that same things that many other have noticed, myself included. It is true that in the service of worship there are similarities between Christian and Hindu services. This is passingly interesting but not proof of anything except man’s desire for God. Hinduism and Buddhism both predate the coming of Jesus and since it is in man to desire God it makes perfect sense that there would be similarities.

As to some of Christ’s tenants and those of the Guatama Buddha, well they both did preach peace and understanding.
Buddha taught about a state of non-being called Nirvana (an outgrowth of the Hindu idea of Moksha) This was as close as he could get seeing as he never knew Judaism much less Christianity.

Jesus also taught peace and love and also advocated meditation.
Jesus, being God, knew God and didn’t advocate a state of non-being. For many years people has made assumptions that the “private” gospel that Jesus taught his disciples was a form of “secret knowledge” relating to Hinduism or Buddhism. This is a form of the gnostic heresy and should not be treated lightly.

There have been many theories about Jesus’ travels between the time He was presented at the temple and the time he started his ministries. Some theorize that he went to India. Due to the time involved and the technology of the day it is theoretically possible however unlikely it might be.

Once His public ministries began he never left the middle east.

To make the assumption that he somehow survived the cross (a la the “passover plot”) is to call Jesus a liar has He himself prophecized that he would die and rise again.

This is the point on which Christianity in general and the Catholic Church in specific turns. Either Jesus did what he said he would and he IS the son of God or else he was a raving lunatic. There is no middle ground. So if he survived the cross, then he was a lunatic and of no historical or religious value at all. Since both Christian and historical sources agree that he died then the former must be true.

Someone who was fully man and fully God is difficult to understand.
Someone who was fully man dying on the cross and rising again is extremely hard to believe.

These are part of the divine ministries that we take with faith. As St. Anselm said I believe in order to understand.
Please do not allow the intellectual difficulties, which are the taunts of the Enemy, to keep you from knowing Jesus as the only begotten Son of God and the only path to know God and achieve heaven.

I will pray for you, and for Herr Kersten.

Bryan
 
The problem with many so-called scholars and groups such as the BBC, History Channel, etc. is that they make a good deal of faulty presuppositions. Including, but not limited to:

God doesn’t exist
Miracles cannot happen
Jesus isn’t God
Mary wasn’t the Virgin Mother of God
Christianity is a myth
…etc.
 
Any Chinese people reading the title of this thread would probably snort tea out their noses! 😃

Did I say that Jesus is also​

  • a woman
  • “batting for the other side”
  • black
  • Caucasian
  • an alien
    :rolleyes: ? Short of His being a Klingon, a hobbit, a dragon, or some more conventional animal, that is probably about it. 🙂
 
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