History of Islam. *QUESTION*

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c659smith said:
First no one forbids anyone from being married.

Nuns take this vow of their own free will.

Nuns are married to the Church, the Church is Christ, So the nuns are called sisters.

A group of Nuns living in a convenant will call the elder or Nun in charge Mother out of respect.
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Good. That should explain the issue to him. 👍

Mother, Sister, Father, Your Lordship, Your Grace, Your Eminence and Your Holiness are some of the terms we address Catholic clergies. These are just terms for the offices they hold (and that are quite an office, come to think of it). Courtesy and reverence naturally leads us to use these terms.

The narrow-mindedness of Muslims does not understand the higher calling of being ‘married’ to the Church, to Jesus. Simply speaking this mean the clergies are devoting all their earthly lives in service for God and forsake everything else. But sure Muslims can understand this kind of thing. Mujahidin’s and Muslim suicide bombers give all their lives for the service of Allah, so why is it so difficult to understand that Nuns and Priests can do the same? Of course they do not serve our God by strapping themselves with bombs and kill themselves along with others. To us that is murder.
 
Muslim_Woman said:
http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

The Veil in Christianity

http://www.muhajabah.com/images/nun.jpg

…Is Covering the Hair a Religious Commandment for Christian Women?

There can be only one answer to this: yes, it is! Simply open the Bible to the First Epistle to the Corinthians, chapter 11. Read verses 3-10.

…Have you ever wondered why Catholic nuns dress like they’re wearing hijab (Muslim hijabi women, have you ever been mistaken for a nun? I have, more than once).

Have you ever wondered why Mary the mother of Jesus (peace be upon them both) is always depicted in Christian art with her hair covered? Did you know that until the 1960s, it was obligatory for Catholic women to cover their heads in church (then they “modernized” the service)?

muhajabah.com/christianveil.htm
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I am not sure what the argument was but what is the necessity to show this? Is it to justify Muslim women dress code? If it is so, as a Catholic I am quite flattered that a Muslim refers to this to justify their action.

In the broader context the similarity is just what it appears to be on the surface and beyond that there is nothing to connect the practices of the Nuns and Muslim women whatsoever. The contrast is like night and day as have been mentioned earlier by posters here.

Suffice to say there is no law as regard to how lay Christian women should dress. They are free to dress as they like. There would be certain dress code when Catholics go to mass in the church but that’s just a code and nobody would throw you out if you don’t comply.

Before Muslims start turning to the Bible again to tell us how to conduct ourselves perhaps it’s good for them to be reminded that these are not spiritual law but mainly decorum, good behavior and practices that can be changed from time to time as befits the situation and place.
 
c659smith said:
First no one forbids anyone from being married.

Nuns take this vow of their own free will.

Nuns are married to the Church, the Church is Christ, So the nuns are called sisters.

A group of Nuns living in a convenant will call the elder or Nun in charge Mother out of respect.
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**Thanks for the info. That we understand. But it is unnatural, unreal and bad. You want us to believe all these things. Okay, we believe you and respect your irrational beliefs. But then please look at your own attitude to the real life matters of other faiths too. You should allow the rational matters of other faiths too.

Even though those ladies take a vow by their own free will not to be married. That is bad in itself. Then to say that they are married to Jesus (to church and Jesus is the church), that is another flaw. Why they are considered married at all when they are not really married? And say that they are married to Jesus is another problem.

Your post was good in a way to explain your ways. But still there are problems, having feelings that marriage may be something bad.**
 
Prime said:
This heresy has been dismissed 18 centuries ago, long before they called themsalves Muslims.😛
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indeed. The history of Islam might puzzle those who do not trace history, and is totally ignored by Muslims who think Muhammad dropped from heaven with a tabula rasa. Islam is traced back to previous heresies found in Arabia, specifically the gnostic Ebionites that Muhammad called the Nasara ( btw, the word Christian was not known to Muhammad it seems since he mixed heretics and orthodox under the same name as Nasara). People who have studied the rise of such sects can trace most of the islamic doctrines and rituals to these sects and Muslims are quick to say “then these sects must have been the true Christians” exactly because they ignore the rise of these sects.
 
planten said:
“Purple”]This part of the post is not good for the church. Why does the church keep the women unmarried? And they are addressed as “Mothers”. That is all unmarried and being called mothers!. How come? You have all the odd ideas which you want the world to believe while you do not believe in the more sensible things of other religions.

It is cruel and a crime to forbid any one from marraige. It means that marriage is disliked in the beliefs of the church. Jakasaki may explain it please… The Quran mentions that belief of the church (celebacy) but it says that it was not ordained by God. It was practiced by the monks themselves by their own wishes.

Who told you what is good for the Christian Church? How did you arrive at the conclusion that they should live like secular women and are forbidden to marry? What do you know about Holy Orders and Religious orders in Catholic Church?
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planten said:
**
Even though those ladies take a vow by their own free will not to be married. That is bad in itself. Then to say that they are married to Jesus (to church and Jesus is the church), that is another flaw. Why they are considered married at all when they are not really married? And say that they are married to Jesus is another problem.

Your post was good in a way to explain your ways. But still there are problems, having feelings that marriage may be something bad.**
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And the women in Islam subjugated like properties or animals by their owner/husbands is natural to you? And when they are beaten this is all of their freewill?
 
Reuben_J said:
Bowing, prostrating, and kneeling when praying is not strange for us Christians.

Praying like you Muslims do is repugnant for us because that’s not how we pray.

Your post looks very deceptive with an element of treachery about it. Don’t blame us Christians when we say that Muslims play trick game and are insincere when you try to promote your Islam.

Now let’s consider what you wrote. You said we’d be true Muslims if we pray in the manner you described according to the Biblical verses you quoted. We do so and by that definition we are true Muslims. But logically and realistically Christians are NOT Muslims! Jesus IS our Lord and Savior and we do NOT believe that Mohammad is a prophet. From what Mohammad believed and taught he was far from that.

I think the OP wanted to go along with this idea concocted by Muslims that a person who submit to God is a Muslim. This definition will cover most believers of any religions available today.

But to be a Muslims strictly means a person who adheres to the teaching of ISLAM. That makes BIG, and I say BIG, difference in belief. Thus not anyone who submits to God may be a Muslim. Not Christians, not Jews definitely.

This inclusive language and doctrine in Islam is plain false and dishonest.
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To be considered a “true Muslim”, one really does need to know and fully understand the immense importance and significance of standing, bowing, kneeling and especially prostration when praying.

The mere fact that pews and chairs have been installed as permanent fixtures in Churches and Cathedrals is therefore more than sufficient proof that Christians are NOT “true Muslims” at heart.
 
hamba2han said:
The mere fact that pews and chairs have been installed as permanent fixtures in Churches and Cathedrals is therefore more than sufficient proof that Christians are NOT “true Muslims” at heart.
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How do you know how were the Churches & Cathedrals in early Christianity days!.

However, if Muhammed had access or had lived in such luxury environment, probably you wouldn’t see the prayer you see nowadays, but Muhammed used to live in tents, so there was no way to perform the Islamic prayer efficiently other than its current way.

http://www.naturenut910.com/photogallery/Dew Drop Inn Tent City Al Jubayl, Saudi Arabia.jpg
 
Why are you Muslims altering the subject, I asked for one simple answer. Can you provide evidence that Islam existed before Christianity. A yes or no answer would be highly appreciated:D . If your answer is no, why are you still a follower of Mohammad???
 
hamba2han said:
To be considered a “true Muslim”, one really does need to know and fully understand the immense importance and significance of standing, bowing, kneeling and especially prostration when praying.

The mere fact that pews and chairs have been installed as permanent fixtures in Churches and Cathedrals is therefore more than sufficient proof that Christians are NOT “true Muslims” at heart.
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My goodness my Muslim man! I really hope not all Muslims have the same mentality like you. If it’s only you that they have to show for, I’m sorry for you guys.

You sound rather uninformed. How you come to your conclusion baffles the mind. How do you know our hearts?

In Christianity prayer is not confined to the church only. If you are thinking about your mosque you’re right - a church is not a mosque. In any case what’s wrong with pews and chairs? Over the centuries no one Christian has ever found them as impediment to prayers. But that’s not all. Do you know how a Catholic Church looks like and what it stands and used for? Do you know that there are different rooms and sanctuaries that can be used for specific purpose?

This is all ridiculous and beside the point too. For your information I would be insulted if you’d say I am a true Muslim. And I couldn’t care one bit if I am not. My objection is your inclusive language and when you quoted those Biblical verses as qualification for being true Muslim. Who care about being Muslim anyway? It’s no loss nor does it mean anything at all to me.

I guess you quoted those verses as revenge against Christians who quoted the Quran. Are you quoting them to annoy us or something? :confused:
 
Reuben_J said:
In Christianity prayer is not confined to the church only. If you are thinking about your mosque you’re right - a church is not a mosque. In any case what’s wrong with pews and chairs? Over the centuries no one Christian has ever found them as impediment to prayers. But that’s not all. Do you know how a Catholic Church looks like and what it stands and used for? Do you know that there are different rooms and sanctuaries that can be used for specific purpose?
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For my Muslim brothers and sisters, did you also know Churches existed before mosques. Why is that? Might it be because Mohammad created Islam? Please answer me, I want a direct answer.
 
Benjamin8o8 said:
For my Muslim brothers and sisters, did you also know Churches existed before mosques. Why is that? Might it be because Mohammad created Islam? Please answer me, I want a direct answer.
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For once I begin to see your point bro. Islam is nothing but a creation of Mohammad. It’s all racist. The Arabs needed to have a religion because the Jews already had one. Mohammad was a genius in that he came out with this bright idea and lo and behold they had Islam. It’s a lie to say that it had to do anything with the prophets of the Bible.
 
planten said:
**Thanks for the info. That we understand. But it is unnatural, unreal and bad. You want us to believe all these things. Okay, we believe you and respect your irrational beliefs. But then please look at your own attitude to the real life matters of other faiths too. You should allow the rational matters of other faiths too.

Even though those ladies take a vow by their own free will not to be married. That is bad in itself. Then to say that they are married to Jesus (to church and Jesus is the church), that is another flaw. Why they are considered married at all when they are not really married? And say that they are married to Jesus is another problem.

Your post was good in a way to explain your ways. But still there are problems, having feelings that marriage may be something bad.**
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Again marriage is not bad but a gift from God. Marrige is a Sacrament.

A Nun and consecrated life

There are three vows taken and in most cases takes about a dozen years till the vows are fully vested to be sure this is what the Woman does desire.

Poverty

The vow of poverty leads a nun to imitate Jesus who for our sake became poor, although he was rich. It helps her to be poor in spirit as well as in fact, and to live a life of labor and moderation. By the vow of poverty , she gives up the right to control or benefit from personal property and commits herself to live interdependently within a community, according to its constitutions. The purpose of this vow is to free her from being fascinated by material things so that she may be free to serve others.

Chastity

The vow of chastity leads a nun to imitate Jesus who was chaste. This vow frees her from the demands of an exclusive human relationship so that she can give all her love to God, and through God to all people. By the vow she promises not to marry or to engage in romantic behavior or sexual acts.

Obedience

The vow of obedience leads the nun to imitate the obedience of Jesus Christ. by seeking God’s will for her and obeying her lawful superiors according to the constitutions of her particular group. As a member of her religious community, she searches for the will of God, not in arbitrary commands, but in prayerful reflection and dialogue with others.
 
Benjamin8o8 said:
Why are you Muslims altering the subject, I asked for one simple answer. Can you provide evidence that Islam existed before Christianity. A yes or no answer would be highly appreciated:D . If your answer is no, why are you still a follower of Mohammad???
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The following is really all the proof that Muslims need in order for us to believe that Islam existed before Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

"Then we inspired you (O Muhammad) to follow the religion of Abraham, monotheism; never was he an idol-worshiper." … [Al-Qur’an, 16:123]

And to further elaborate, it is much better that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself explain his position with regard to the earlier Prophets like Jesus, Moses and Abraham (peace be upon them all).

Abu Huraira reports that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said:

"My position, in relation to the prophets who came before me, can be explained in the following example: ‘A man erected a building and adorned his edifice with great beauty, but he left an empty niche in the corner, where just one brick was missing. People looked around the building and marveled at its beauty, but wondered why a brick was missing from that niche! I am like unto that one missing brick and I am the last in line of the prophets.’" (Reported by Bukhari and Muslim.)

Therefore, the Message that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) brought is only a continuation of the revelations brought by earlier Prophets and the deen (way of life) of Islam has been completed and is perfect in the eyes of God as told in Surah 5:3 of the Qur’an:

"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."

And since the Creator Himself has said that Islam is the perfect religion for all of humankind and He has indeed promised to preserve it till the Last Day when the world comes to an end, then who are the creations to disagree with Him?
 
Reuben_J said:
… In any case what’s wrong with pews and chairs? Over the centuries no one Christian has ever found them as impediment to prayers…
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Jesus (pbuh) and his disciples would surely have found pews and chairs to be an impediment to the way how they themselves used to pray:

Matthew 17:6 "And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid."

Matthew 26:39 "And he (Jesus) went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."
 
hamba2han said:
The following is really all the proof that Muslims need in order for us to believe that Islam existed before Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

"Then we inspired you (O Muhammad) to follow the religion of Abraham, monotheism; never was he an idol-worshiper." … [Al-Qur’an, 16:123]

And to further elaborate, it is much better that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself explain his position with regard to the earlier Prophets like Jesus, Moses and Abraham (peace be upon them all).

Abu Huraira reports that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said:

"My position, in relation to the prophets who came before me, can be explained in the following example: ‘A man erected a building and adorned his edifice with great beauty, but he left an empty niche in the corner, where just one brick was missing. People looked around the building and marveled at its beauty, but wondered why a brick was missing from that niche! I am like unto that one missing brick and I am the last in line of the prophets.’" (Reported by Bukhari and Muslim.)

Therefore, the Message that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) brought is only a continuation of the revelations brought by earlier Prophets and the deen (way of life) of Islam has been completed and is perfect in the eyes of God as told in Surah 5:3 of the Qur’an:

"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."

And since the Creator Himself has said that Islam is the perfect religion for all of humankind and He has indeed promised to preserve it till the Last Day when the world comes to an end, then who are the creations to disagree with Him?
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So you are still waiting for thr Messiah and there is now way for any moslems to enter heaven in Islam.
After all Mohammed was a prophet and not the Savior.

To say otherwise would be to twist the prior 7000 or so years in the old testament and the Tora.
 
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Salaam/peace
Benjamin8o8 said:
… Churches existed before mosques. Why is that? .
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So , what’s your point ?

Jesus (p) never made any statue of himself or his mom , put those idols inside any Church ( if there was really any Church like today’s ) & ordered people to bow down in front of those statues & pray.

Muslims believe God sent Prophets to all nations. They all taught people to worship one God without partner. No Prophet ever taught that God has parents , begotten son or daughter etc.

Jesus (p) also taught **God is greater than All. **
 
Benjamin8o8 said:
Muslims DO believe in the same God we do. There is no denying that. Sure, we have our differences, but come on, muslim women are so much more pure then Christian females. I honestly believe, God bestows his Mercy on US because of them. When I attend Mass, and I see how disgusting some of these girls dress before the Holy Eucharist, I am truly convinced we should be greatful for these God-fearing women.

God Bless.
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Have you met EVERY muslim woman in the world? Just because they wear hijabs/niqabs that makes them pure? Puhlease! The ones I know have foul mouths, sleep around etc just as much as non-muslims so you can take that thought out of your head. How must they actually feel about being one of multiple wives? They must want their own husbands - that is not a nice way to live. Don’t label me a “muslim” - I am Christian and find it offensive. I also find it quite insulting that a Catholic could be so rude about Christian women.
 
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