History of Islam. *QUESTION*

[Jay53]

QUOTE=Benjamin8o8;4708774
God is going to judge someone`s purity based on their dressing. Because the way someone dress may cause another being to react sinful.

No offense, but this completely wrong! You cannot honestly believe that how someone dresses is how God will judge our purity. ??? What about the African cultures where the women walk around topless? (They have been depicted in National Geographic - although I’m probably dating myself seeing as how it’s been a REALLY long time since I’ve seen those articles. ) Do you think God is going to condemn them, but be pleased with a promiscuous/adulterous woman who happens to show up in church modestly dressed?

And, yes, we need to be mindful of others, but ultimately each person is responsible for his/her own thoughts and actions. Should I not wear shoes with heels because I may encounter someone with a foot fetish? How far do you carry this?

 

[Christ_Is_Life]

What!?! Since when should women (or men for that matter) be “ashamed” of their bodies. I’m hoping that you just picked the wrong word and didn’t mean this how it sounds. I definately believe in modesty, especially in Church, but we are created in the image of God and have nothing to be “ashamed” of in that regard.

I totally agree with you. What people don’t realise when they make remarks like that is that the emotional baggage they carry about their bodies can effect thier sexual function when they eventually find the right partner in marriage and that can cause problems.

I have some training in psychology and we can intellectulise now until doomsday about this one but this is something that is scientifically proven. If it impedes our bodies perfect function from our perfect creator who created us perfect then it’s the mind of the impedor and not God who is at fault.

Of course modesty is fine and people should be aware of how they dress and the reaction they get but they should address the situation without any guilt or shame.

I know from my school years about purely dressed muslim women. I know for a fact of one example of a girl I would never have dreamed of who always dressed in very conservative muslim attire getting her share of sex from my white school colleague on several occassions. Her attire actually protected her on some occasions because she was able to conceal her identity at covenient times.

Purety is in the heart, although I would probably say that muslim women are more chaste that other women it’s not what you may think. Many live an alternative life once they get a taste of freedom at university etc.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

You’re not making any sense! Does the Holy Spirit bring conflicting messages? Muhammad was a copycat! He plagiarized things from other scriptures. Where do you get the idea that it was the Holy Spirit that inspired Muhammad? You may claim to be a Catholic, but your posts sound more like the stuff that Muslim apologists use to sell Islam to us.]

No the Holy Spirit dose not bring conflicting messages, go back to my post and you will see I only said the Holy Spirit intervened. God had a plan for Mohammads evil actions. If you are disagreeing with that, youre basically saying, all the millions of people that were dicived by Mohammad are in hell or are going to be damned. That my sister is not how a Catholic should think. Im not a Muslim apologist, I`m just a Christian with an open mind.

Exactly! How do you know what their thoughts are! A woman may be dressed from head to toe and have her mind in the gutter. You can’t judge a book by its cover.]

You did not answer my question:

Does dressing a rapist in a monk’s habit make him a monk?]

**Does dressing a prostitute in a nun’s habit make her a nun? **You’re equating purity simply on the way a person dresses.]

I am not juding a book by its cover. Like I said, I dont see Muslimas advertise braws and panties, nor do I see them walk in a fasion that might sexually attract a man when they are covered from head to toe. This is why you cant dress a rapist in a monks robe, because his true idendity will be exposed someway somehow. If Muslimas do not represent modesty, then show me how they are trying to make burkas sexually appealing. That is right, you cant. So please, dont take away the one good virtue God gave our humble Muslim brothers and sisters.

Forcing someone into modesty is not virtue! ]

I don`t hear much complaining from Muslim women that wear Burkas. So yeah, I consider their obedience toward their law a viture.

There was NO Islam before Muhammad!

Vickie

I never said there was.

 

[Booklover]

“Are these other muslim women “less pure” because they don’t wear burkas?” I would say so, considering the woman that “choose” to dress according to the law that requires them to. Also, they show less skin which decreseas the chance that other men might look at them lustfully. Meaning: God is more pleased with such women.

Once again, thank you Muslimas for appeasing Gods anger. High school “Christian” girls should look up to you.

Wow! Now you’re claiming that you can read God’s mind?

Isaias 55 8-9

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts."

You still refuse to answer my questions:

Does dressing a rapist in a monk’s robe make him a monk?

Does dressing a prostitute in a nun’s habit make her a nun?

Vickie

 

[Benjamin8o8]

Wow! Now you’re claiming that you can read God’s mind?

Isaias 55 8-9

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts."

wow. If I ever kill a human being, or hurt somebody out of pleasure, dont tell me its evil because you dont know what is in God`s mind.

Isaias 55 8-9
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

You still refuse to answer my questions:

I`m sorry it took so long.

God Bless.

 

[MHalsey]

“Are these other muslim women “less pure” because they don’t wear burkas?” I would say so, considering the woman that “choose” to dress according to the law that requires them to. Also, they show less skin which decreseas the chance that other men might look at them lustfully. Meaning: God is more pleased with such women.

Once again, thank you Muslimas for appeasing Gods anger. High school “Christian” girls should look up to you.

This is a very muslim thought. “Woman, you must cover yourself from head to foot, lest I am overcome with lust.”

I am beginning to wonder…

"You are judging someone’s purity based on how they dress. " I am not judging, I am just speaking the truth. God is going to judge someone`s purity based on their dressing. Because the way someone dress may cause another being to react sinful.

yet another muslim thought.

God judges us by our actions, not by our dress. As someone else mentioned, the women in Africa. And as well, a woman may dress very modestly in Mass, yet be an adulterer or worse.

I am not denying Jesus words. I am also thankful for Jesus MAKING us Children and friends of God. I really am. But this verse you pointed out dose not eliminate the fact we are still slaves of God. We are slaves, and always will be. God is the Master of our souls. We belong to HIM. .

We belong to him in the way my children belong to me. Not as a slave to master. And again, we submit to God out of love for Him, not out of duty.

This is also a very muslim thought.

I know, I did not say that nor claim that. I am neither talking about the laws of Islam nor am I talking about how Muslims worship their God. I am basically talking about the word “Muslim” as an adjective. This is why I said, we are the TRUE Muslims. We submit ourselves totaly to God, and not to Mohammads laws.

You need to be careful about the definition of words. The meaning of “muslim” (ie. submit) to a muslim, is different than what a christian understands by the meaning of submit.

To say we submit to God in the same way a muslim submits to the law of muhammed is incorrect.

But they do the will of His Father (They fast, they give money to the poor, they even follow quite a few things what Jesus preached, they worship in their temple ect…)

Like I said, half truths mixed with lies makes a very powerful deceiver.

Go back to the original post, and look at the questions I asked for Muslims to answer. You will see that I am not claiming Islam is the original religion of Abraham, I am only saying they worship the God Abraham worshipped.

By claiming we submit to God and are therefore “true muslims” you do. There is simply no way around it. They do not worship the same God we worship. For one, our God is a Trinity of Persons, theirs is only one god in one personage. That right there aught to clue you into the fact that we do not worship the same God.

 

[Booklover]

No the Holy Spirit dose not bring conflicting messages, go back to my post and you will see I only said the Holy Spirit intervened. God had a plan for Mohammads evil actions. If you are disagreeing with that, youre basically saying, all the millions of people that were dicived by Mohammad are in hell or are going to be damned. That my sister is not how a Catholic should think. Im not a Muslim apologist, I`m just a Christian with an open mind.

Now you’re putting words into my mouth! Where did I say anything about damning anyone? Muhammad had nothing to do with God. You can see examples of his evil legacy everyday.We should love that which is good and shun what is evil.

i am not juding a book by its cover. Like I said, I dont see Muslimas advertise braws and panties, nor do I see them walk in a fasion that might sexually attract a man when they are covered from head to toe. This is why you cant dress a rapist in a monks robe, because his true idendity will be exposed someway somehow. If Muslimas do not represent modesty, then show me how they are trying to make burkas sexually appealing. That is right, you cant. So please, dont take away the one good virtue God gave our humble Muslim brothers and sisters.

Nonsense! If you think that dressing a woman in a tent with only the eyes showing is appealing, you should have your head examined. Did you know that children born of women who wear burkas are very likely to have ricketts? Burkas are not good for a woman’s health, neither can they be comfortable! Imagine if you had to breathe through one of those things. Think of the stale air!

And as for humility…no comment!

I don`t hear much complaining from Muslim women that wear Burkas. So yeah, I consider their obedience toward their law a viture.

Of course you don’t! If they complained, they’d probably be beaten or have acid thrown in their face by “pious” Muslim men.

Vickie

P.S. By the way, the word is “bra” or “bras” not “braws”.

 

[planten]

You still refuse to answer my questions:

Does dressing a rapist in a monk’s robe make him a monk?

Does dressing a prostitute in a nun’s habit make her a nun?

Vickie

**Dressing well could be useful. Dress should not be vulgar, like some people walk about naked in some European country places. We feel that the early christians were very serious in the matter of their good dresses.

There is no harm in God teaching us how to dress. No harm at all. If that is something bad then God should not tell us anything at all. We can do everything ourself.

I feel that man could live on the leaves off the plants and trees and could have survived. But mankind could not survive without guidance from the Creator God. That is why, with His Kindness, God sent the messengers in all ages in all nations to guide the people to live well.
I am surprised at some christians who are denying the need for any guidance from God. Guidance may be in the matters of dressing and eating and marrying and living… What harm is there.

Otherwise, there will be rebellion against religion and man will have to invent (legislate) divorce too.

**

 

[Benjamin8o8]

No offense, but this completely wrong! You cannot honestly believe that how someone dresses is how God will judge our purity. ??? What about the African cultures where the women walk around topless? (They have been depicted in National Geographic - although I’m probably dating myself seeing as how it’s been a REALLY long time since I’ve seen those articles. ) Do you think God is going to condemn them, but be pleased with a promiscuous/adulterous woman who happens to show up in church modestly dressed?

None taken. But of course!! There is a reason why Eve “felt” naked once she ate the forbidden fruit. There is also a lot of women in Africa that are Muslims that wear Burkas okay. So those women that walk half naked are actually commiting sins. You can not possible tell me they actually have the Holy Spirit in their souls. And please don`t ask me if God is going to condemn anybody, for I can not possible judge anyones salvation. I can only speak of someones actions on earth.

“but be pleased with a promiscuous/adulterous woman who happens to show up in church modestly dressed?” I never said that! Lets not change the subject okay?

And, yes, we need to be mindful of others, but ultimately each person is responsible for his/her own thoughts and actions. Should I not wear shoes with heels because I may encounter someone with a foot fetish? How far do you carry this?

Pray the rosary each day, and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you, and I am pretty sure you will even consider stop wearing heels in case you encounter people with fetishes. But then again, wearing heels might be appropriate on some occasions, it all depends on the situation I guess.

 

[Booklover]

This is a very muslim thought. “Woman, you must cover yourself from head to foot, lest I am overcome with lust.”

I am beginning to wonder…

yet another muslim thought.

God judges us by our actions, not by our dress. As someone else mentioned, the women in Africa. And as well, a woman may dress very modestly in Mass, yet be an adulterer or worse.

We belong to him in the way my children belong to me. Not as a slave to master. And again, we submit to God out of love for Him, not out of duty.

This is also a very muslim thought.

You need to be careful about the definition of words. The meaning of “muslim” (ie. submit) to a muslim, is different than what a christian understands by the meaning of submit.

To say we submit to God in the same way a muslim submits to the law of muhammed is incorrect.

Like I said, half truths mixed with lies makes a very powerful deceiver.

By claiming we submit to God and are therefore “true muslims” you do. There is simply no way around it. They do not worship the same God we worship. For one, our God is a Trinity of Persons, theirs is only one god in one personage. That right there aught to clue you into the fact that we do not worship the same God.

I see you’re beginning to get the picture. I think someone’s doing some “dawa” on us!

Vickie

 

[MHalsey]

I see you’re beginning to get the picture. I think someone’s doing some “dawa” on us!

Vickie

I’m a li’l fuzzy on what “dawa” means, but you’re probably right.

 

[jakasaki]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Booklover
[There was NO Islam before Muhammad!

Yes you did Benjamin, in reply #33 -

I agree. I didn`t try to say they believe that Islam is corrupted, I was trying to say they believe the message of Islam (before Mohammad) got corrupted

.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Booklover]

None taken. But of course!! There is a reason why Eve “felt” naked once she ate the forbidden fruit. There is also a lot of women in Africa that are Muslims that wear Burkas okay. So those women that walk half naked are actually commiting sins. You can not possible tell me they actually have the Holy Spirit in their souls. And please don`t ask me if God is going to condemn anybody, for I can not possible judge anyones salvation. I can only speak of someones actions on earth.

If that’s the way they’ve dressed for generations, and don’t know any other way, why are they committing a sin? It’s very hot in Africa! Making women there dress in burkas is another way in which Muslim women are discriminated against!

CCC:

2524 The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another. Everywhere, however, modesty exists as an intuition of the spiritual dignity proper to man. It is born with the awakening consciousness of being a subject. Teaching modesty to children and adolescents means awakening in them respect for the human person.

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

I’m a li’l fuzzy on what “dawa” means, but you’re probably right.

It means “inviting people to accept Islam” by indoctrination I’d say!

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

Pray the rosary each day, and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you, and I am pretty sure you will even consider stop wearing heels in case you encounter people with fetishes. But then again, wearing heels might be appropriate on some occasions, it all depends on the situation I guess.

It seems to me you’re the one with a fetish with your constant references to “thongs” and “braws”

Vickie

 

[hamba2han]

For those who may be wondering whether or not they can be considered to be a “true Muslim”, I would suggest that they perform a simple test in order to determine their suitability to be a “true Muslim” i.e. they need to pray like the great “true Muslims” of the past:

Genesis 17:3 "And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,"

Genesis 17:17 "Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?"

Exodus 34:8 "And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped."

Numbers 16:20-22 "And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying, Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment. And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?"

Joshua 5:14 "And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?"

Ezekiel 9:8 "And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?"

2 Chronicles 20:18 "And Jehoshaphat bowed his head with his face to the ground: and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem fell before the LORD, worshipping the LORD."

Ezekiel 11:13 "And it came to pass, when I prophesied, that Pelatiah the son of Benaiah died. Then fell I down upon my face, and cried with a loud voice, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou make a full end of the remnant of Israel?"

Matthew 17:6 "And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid."

Matthew 26:39 "And he (Jesus) went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."

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I would suggest that you do this simple test of praying in the manner of the great “true Muslims” of the past in the privacy of your homes, preferably in the direction of Jerusalem if you like.

If you discover that you do indeed enjoy praying to the Lord in this manner, then this strongly indicates that you may well be a “true Muslim” at heart.

However, if you find that the idea of praying in this manner somewhat repugnant, then you are very likely NOT a “true Muslim”.

 

[Jay53]

Benjamin8o8;4709106]None taken. But of course!! There is a reason why Eve “felt” naked once she ate the forbidden fruit. There is also a lot of women in Africa that are Muslims that wear Burkas okay. So those women that walk half naked are actually commiting sins.

What sin are they committing if it is a cultural/tribal issue? Are you assuming they are walking around like that for some sort of deviant sexual purpose? (I don’t know why they do that, but I really don’t think it’s sexual.)

You can not possible tell me they actually have the Holy Spirit in their souls.

Why in the world would they not have the Holy Spirit in them because they’re naked? Does the Holy Spirit leave us when we shower?

And please don`t ask me if God is going to condemn anybody, for I can not possible judge anyones salvation. I can only speak of someones actions on earth.

I agree. God is the ultimate Judge.

“but be pleased with a promiscuous/adulterous woman who happens to show up in church modestly dressed?” I never said that! Lets not change the subject okay?

This isn’t changing the subject. :

Originally Posted by Benjamin8o8
“Are these other muslim women “less pure” because they don’t wear burkas?” I would say so, considering the woman that “choose” to dress according to the law that requires them to. Also, they show less skin which decreseas the chance that other men might look at them lustfully. Meaning: **God is more pleased with such women. **

Pray the rosary each day, and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you

,

Already do, but thanks for the reminder.

and I am pretty sure you will even consider stop wearing heels in case you encounter people with fetishes. But then again, wearing heels might be appropriate on some occasions, it all depends on the situation I guess.

LOL, sorry, but that’s not going to happen! I wear them to work with business suits, and no, I don’t feel responsible at all if I encounter someone with a fetish. They are responsible for themselves.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

This is a very muslim thought. “Woman, you must cover yourself from head to foot, lest I am overcome with lust.”

I am beginning to wonder…

LOL!! I dont think like that, Its not like I think God commands all women to cover themselves from head to foot, I just prefer how Muslimas dress then modern Christians.

God judges us by our actions, not by our dress. As someone else mentioned, the women in Africa. And as well, a woman may dress very modestly in Mass, yet be an adulterer or worse…

The way somebody “chooses” to dress is an action. Therefore your “decision” will reflect someway or somwhow. What you just said means, God dose not care if we use foul language, its our "actions" that He watching. A woman might dress modestly in Mass, but she is only an hypocrite if she becomes something worse then that once she steps out of Church. Muslims dont behave that way. The way they dress in Mosques, they dress in puplic as well.

"We belong to him in the way my children belong to me. Not as a slave to master. And again, we submit to God out of love for Him, not out of duty.

This is also a very muslim thought."…

The reason Muslims think that way is because they NEED to fear God, for they rejected Jesus Christ. I am not saying Love God because its our duty, I am saying love God because He`s simply God. But hey, you said it yourselves “we submit to God” thus making us true Muslims.

“And again, we submit to God out of love for Him, not out of duty.” Where did I say otherwise?

You need to be careful about the definition of words. The meaning of “muslim” (ie. submit) to a muslim, is different than what a christian understands by the meaning of submit…

I didn´t think I had to break it down for you people.

a Muslim means who submits to God, the Muslims we know are not true Muslims because they submit to the laws of Mohammad NOT to Allah. This is why I simply said we are the true Muslims and the fulfilled Jews

By claiming we submit to God and are therefore “true muslims” you do. There is simply no way around it. They do not worship the same God we worship. For one, our God is a Trinity of Persons, theirs is only one god in one personage. That right there aught to clue you into the fact that we do not worship the same God.

Who are you to say they dont worship God? They admit to themselves they worship the Author of the universe. Surely they dont accept Jesus Christ, but even us Catholics dont get the true essense of the Trinity. Therefore it is a mystery. In order to have the right to say to Muslims you dont believe in the God of Abraham(peace be upon him), means you discovered the mystery of the Trinity. blashphemous. Please man, you have no right to say that. We know for a fact that Muslims worship the same God Jesus worshipped.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

Yes you did Benjamin, in reply #33 -

No I didn`t sister. I said they “believe” the message of Islam got corrupted before Muhammad. But they fail to prove that. Go back to the original post

 

[Benjamin8o8]

What sin are they committing if it is a cultural/tribal issue? Are you assuming they are walking around like that for some sort of deviant sexual purpose? (I don’t know why they do that, but I really don’t think it’s sexual.) .

It might not be sexual but it is still Gods law to cover us up. If Muslims can do it under sever women, then they can as well.

Why in the world would they not have the Holy Spirit in them because they’re naked? Does the Holy Spirit leave us when we shower?.

When we are in the shower, our minds are focused on washing our earthly bodies. There is no need to ask the Holy Spirit to intervene with us when we are cleaning ourselves. So it`s not like the Holy Spirit leaves us, it just is not actively present.

Already do, but thanks for the reminder. .

Good to hear that my sister !!! : ) never stop, for Mary will lead you

LOL, sorry, but that’s not going to happen! I wear them to work with business suits, and no, I don’t feel responsible at all if I encounter someone with a fetish. They are responsible for themselves.

If you notice somebody with a fetish, then as a devouted Catholic who prayers the precious Rosary everyday, you should know you have a duty to help this victim out by humbly reacting to his weakness. That means, stop wearing heels and pray for him.