Hitler's religion

[dmelosi]

Probably not.

There’s no doubt that certain Catholics, Protestants or whatever found themselves persecuted by the Reich.

Meanwhile, the vast majority of Catholics who were killed were killed for the ‘crime’ of being Poles.

Regardless whether they were killed because they were Poles or Catholic, would you at least agree that the killing was not a “Catholic” thing?

 

[Kaninchen]

This is blatantly false and so are the rest of your statements.

The Catholic Church did more than anyone else did in the entire world against the holocaust including the Jews themselves.

Certainly, Catholics played a major role in the holocaust.

 

[Kaninchen]

Regardless whether they were killed because they were Poles or Catholic, would you at least agree that the killing was not a “Catholic” thing?

I think I’ve made it quite clear that I think that Catholics should consider the part that Catholicism played in the creation of an environment of anti-Semitism in Catholic Europe.

Were all Catholics murderers? No.
Were some Catholics murderers? Yes.
Were all Protestants murderers? No
Were some Protestants murderers? Yes.
Was murder a Catholic ‘thing’? No.
Was murder a Protestant ‘thing’? No.

Were both to blame for creating an environment of Jew-hatred? Well, that’s for Catholics and Protestants to consider.

 

[LRThunder]

I think I’ve made it quite clear that I think that Catholics should consider the part that Catholicism played in the creation of an environment of anti-Semitism in Catholic Europe.

Were all Catholics murderers? No.
Were some Catholics murderers? Yes.
Were all Protestants murderers? No
Were some Protestants murderers? Yes.
Was murder a Catholic ‘thing’? No.
Was murder a Protestant ‘thing’? No.

Were both to blame for creating an environment of Jew-hatred? Well, that’s for Catholics and Protestants to consider.

Jews were also heavily persecuted in Russia, and that was an Orthodox country under the tsar. Guess they contributed to the Holocaust as well even after the Communists took over.

Jews were not looked heavily favored upon by the U.S., especially those who wore white robes and burned crosses, and that particular group also hated Catholics as well as Jews. Must be the U.S.'s fault as well.

 

[inthecloud]

Certainly, Catholics were less likely (in Germany) to vote for the NSDAP during the rise to power than Protestants.

Catholics them voted for the centrist party.

 

[Zooey]

At some point he was Catholic. As time went by, the only god he knew was himself. By the time he started ruling Germany, the Catholic side of him was long since gone. He did dabble in the occult and want a return to the old Germanic gods. Even with that, he was the only higher power he accepted.

Yeah, I think its pretty clear that Hitler was a devout believer in the Atomic Church of Adolf.

Thanks for the thread

I had some non denominational protestant come to my door a couple of months ago and ask me if I knew Jesus. I told him, of course I know Jesus, I’m Catholic.

He point blank told me that I was going to Hell b/c Hitler was Catholic and he went to Hell…What? lol What kind of insane logic is that? When I did a psychological analysis of Hitler for my undergraduate studies I found no mention of Catholicism…just agnosticism among other things.

Doesn’t matter if he was Catholic or not…doesn’t mean I’m going to Hell or doesn’t mean I’m not.

Ignorant people…sigh

Well, that’s just nutty…It sounds like you were exposed to the worst sort of stupidity.
I am sorry that you had to be treated that way. Really, I wonder what on earth some of these http://bestsmileys.com/silly/20.gif are thinking. (Well, duh, Zooey; they aren’t thinking. That’s their problem…).

 

[Kaninchen]

Catholics them voted for the centrist party.

The ‘Zentrum’ and ‘Bayerische Volks Partei’ (in the South) were Catholic political parties rather than ‘center parties’.

 

[Lapell]

It is true that following the liberation f Rome, Jews began to acknowledge the compassion and help provided by Pope Pius XII during the Shoah. And this continued after the war ended. And while Golden Meir praised the Pope after his death for having “raised his voice in favor of the Jews”, she must have been referring to the claims of papal intervention on the Jew’s behalf. Because there had been no meaningful protest.

Whenever there’s a discussion on the Church’s responsibility for the Holocaust, all these and more are rightly mentioned by its defenders. However, expressions of gratitude are not proof of the truth of the Church’s claims. Just proof that jews believed those claims. The gratitude, I am sorry to say, was largely misplaced. While individual men and women of the Church deserve thanks, the pope had very little to do with their actions.

Jews who took shelter in Church institutions could not know why they were allowed to enter. They naturally assumed it was due to the pope’s intercession. It was not. Many would assume that no individual monastary, hospital or school would act without prior papal approval, etc. In fact, those individual’s were perhaps embarassed by the popes silence during the holocaust, and therefore were eager to share their credit with the Vatican.

The pope did not speak out against Italy’s anti-jewish laws.
The Vatican did almost nothing to provide extra food or medicene to the refugees of Ferramonti. Thank God for Father Lopiniot, not Pope Pius. Lopiniot did what he had to do to get private donations to help. Lopiniot did it all but gave credit to the pope when the truth was the pope had done nothing.

Just one example.

Also, it was good politics to thank the pope after WWII – to foster good will between jews and non-jews. After all, non-jews had almost succeeded in completely destroying us.

Gratitude from Jews after WWII proves nothing.

(Paraphrased from the book “Under His Very Window”)

Who wrote that book? It seems that whoever nowadays will tell the real truth and not just half-truth simply won’t be believed except by just a few!!!..
And what do you think of Rabbi David Dalin’s book “The Myth of Hitler’s Pope”?

 

[Valke2]

Who wrote that book? It seems that whoever nowadays will tell the real truth and not just half-truth simply won’t be believed except by just a few!!!..
And what do you think of Rabbi David Dalin’s book “The Myth of Hitler’s Pope”?

I’ve only heard Dalin’s book discussed here. Haven’t read it. His book is more recent than the one I quoted from and it is possible that he had greater access to Church records. I don’t know if this is the case.

I think that this is a topic that sells and that the truth may lie somewhere in between various author’s presentations.

 

[Lapell]

I’ve only heard Dalin’s book discussed here. Haven’t read it. His book is more recent than the one I quoted from and it is possible that he had greater access to Church records. I don’t know if this is the case.

I think that this is a topic that sells and that the truth may lie somewhere in between various author’s presentations.

Yeah, it sells… whatever blames the Jews seems to sell much!!! …and whatever blames “the Catholic Church” seems also to sell very much!!!
So I guess everyone should be happy!.. (Happy to be so unhappy? How awful!!!)

 

[hasikelee]

Oh my gosh I can’t believe this stuff is still being debated.



Kaninchen, valke, who gave you your perceptions of this time period and the characters within it?

Has no one read Bergen? Delbo? Wiesel? Vromen? Sanchez? Kennedy? Bauer?

Well, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone read something and then Bergen.

Yes, Hitler, whose every idea and action was completely antithetical to the Judeo-Christian faith, was obviously supported by Catholics.

And the persecution of the Poles, who were predominantly Christian/Catholic is hardly a worthy argument to prove that Catholics were anti-semitic. They were barely a step above Jews, seen as livestock. When a German official made note of the tortures Poles were receiving, Hitler confirmed that it was okay and indicated that Germans should treat the Poles as “a man would treat his oxen, giving them enough food to plow the field.”

Oh my gosh can I do some more of this

Those evil Catholics. All along they were in cahoots with Hitler! It was just completely ignored until the enlightened 60s.

 

[Kaninchen]

Oh my gosh I can’t believe this stuff is still being debated.



Kaninchen, valke, who gave you your perceptions of this time period and the characters within it?

Has no one read Bergen? Delbo? Wiesel? Vromen? Sanchez? Kennedy? Bauer?

Well, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone read something and then Bergen.

Yes, Hitler, whose every idea and action was completely antithetical to the Judeo-Christian faith, was obviously supported by Catholics.

And the persecution of the Poles, who were predominantly Christian/Catholic is hardly a worthy argument to prove that Catholics were anti-semitic. They were barely a step above Jews, seen as livestock. When a German official made note of the tortures Poles were receiving, Hitler confirmed that it was okay and indicated that Germans should treat the Poles as “a man would treat his oxen, giving them enough food to plow the field.”

Oh my gosh can I do some more of this

Those evil Catholics. All along they were in cahoots with Hitler! It was just completely ignored until the enlightened 60s.

When I posed my question about whether Catholics might consider whether the endemic Jew-hatred in Catholic Europe might have something to do with Catholics, I didn’t, of course, imagine that many would seriously take up the challenge.

 

[hasikelee]

When I posed my question about whether Catholics might consider whether the endemic Jew-hatred in Catholic Europe might have something to do with Catholics, I didn’t, of course, imagine that many would seriously take up the challenge.

I love your writing style BTW

 

[Kaninchen]

I love your writing style BTW

Danke, das ist sehr nett von Ihnen!

 

[Lapell]

When I posed my question about whether Catholics might consider whether the endemic Jew-hatred in Catholic Europe might have something to do with Catholics, I didn’t, of course, imagine that many would seriously take up the challenge.

With Catholics, or with “the Catholic Church”?
If you just say “with Catholics”, then it’s different! Just as those Israelites who idolatred the golden calf were not doing a mitzvah.

 

[Jerusha]

I’ve been thinking----

The Second World War-- Italy was taken over by the Fascists. Vatican City was an island in the middle of the storm. IF the Fascist puppets of Nazi Germany had taken over Vatican City and placed a puppet Pope there, how many Catholics would have recognized him as pope? Very few, I think. The true pope would have been as Gandalf, a church head, wandering without a real home.

This could have been Hitler’s strategy. Frightening.

Perhaps this is the reason why some people were concerned about Pope Benedict’s nationality.

 

[murtad]

Adolf Hitler was raised Catholic, and continued to profess Catholicism publicly, and to a great extent privately, for most of his life – at the very least well into his career as chancellor. There is little reason to believe he was not so, other than an entirely understandable desire to have as little in common with the man as possible.

Can you prove that he was Roman Catholic? I have evidence here that Adolf Hitler was an ex-Lutheran who converted to Islam as he was fascinated by Caliph Umar, the second Caliph of Islam, the de facto father of Arab racism. The Islamic armies conquered Christian North Africa and Christian Syria and then subjugated the Berbers, the Libyans, the Copts, the Syrians, and the Chaldeans under Arab slavery.

 

[hawkeye]

Lopiniot did it all but gave credit to the pope when the truth was the pope had done nothing.

Rather silly remark, the Church is Universal, we are in Communion, plus in a recent book by a Jewish author he would beg to differ with you.

Yours is a bit like saying the soldiers did it but lets not give credit to the General.

 

[Cathdefender]

What did Hitler believe in?

Some theories

Faithful Roman Catholic
Dissadent Roman Catholic
Agnoistic
Atheist
Occultist
Jew?

Please, I want a straight answer. I don’t want dogmatic preaching from atheists saying that Hitler used Christanity to carry out violence, it is clearly eveident that he was a hyprocite (saying he was faithful to Rome but at the same time destroying churches and killing priests)

Hitler was born a Catholic but changed and converted into Protestanism when he got older. When the atrocities started, Hitler was Protestant. Now that by no means is because he was Protestant he carried out these horrendous acts. It’s just what he believed in at the time.

 

[Cathdefender]

Certainly, Catholics played a major role in the holocaust.

I think this is an unfair statement and rather rude. There were a million or so Christians who also died at the hands of Hitler. And most WERE Catholic. To even say this is totally ignorant of this situation, and requires tunnel vision of WWII.