Holding hands at the Lord's Prayer

[SHEMP]

friendofgod:

another protestant menstration let into the CHURCH CHRIST founded…but why??? hmm Vatican II and the spirit of ecumencism…have that ice cream social with the fundamental who thinks the Pope is the anti-christ. Its OK per Catholic Apologists…

Listen to what the Spirit has to say…Who are you and why have you come?

Hi Friend,

Why so much anger? You will be in my prayers tonight.

 

[Crusader]

SwordofLight:

I really think it should be restricted to families and not the whole congregation. I don’t know how it “undermines” the sign of peace, because during the handshake you are looking the person square in the eye. You don’t look a person square in the eye during the Our Father. I do have a problem when people run across the aisles to hold someone’s hand, this just seems childish to me, and it forces strangers that may be in your pew to shift over as well.

It does undermine the kiss of peace, but more importantly I think it suggests that some people feel we are not unified “enough” through the Eucharist, which obviously cannot be the case.

Holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer is a touchy-feely (literally) addition with absolutely no approval.

 

[STJOMO]

A lady at mass today, about 10 feet from me in a largely empty pew, stretched into almost unfathomable contortions to grab my hand during the Lord’s Prayer. I ignored her, and she quickly withdrew. I don’t like to be diverted from the true purpose of the Mass, and I also feel cheated when this kind of thing happens. I will hold hands with my family, but I’ve never been comfortable with the concept of holding hands with strangers during Mass.

I also have some misgivings about the Sign of Peace, but I’ve generally gone along with it. I know a couple of priests who dispense with that practice and go right to the Agnus Dei.

 

[bquinnan]

Growing up in Silicone Valley, I remember the “holding hands” having been introduced by the priests when I was six or seven. At first it was just some priests, and they’d only do it every now and then. They’d specifically say, “Let us all join hands and pray as Jesus taught us” or something to that effect. It wasn’t an issue of priests not being sure how to prevent it – they told us to do it!

Now that I know about the prohibition against making additions to the Mass, I try to avoid it – but if someone next to me is really determined, I comply, just because I don’t feel like it’s the time to have a discussion about it. My 8-year-old son has followed my lead – I think he might feel the same way I did about holding the hands of strangers at that age.

 

[Benjamin]

After returning to the Church from a twenty year hiatus the holding hands during the Lords prayer and the Eucharistic ministers was a big shocker. Did I mess up and go to a Protestant church? The kicker was the hand squeeze after the prayer was ended. From a female I can get over it, but when a male and it turns out Eucharistic minister gave my hand a squeeze I had had enough. I now find an empty section to sit in. I sometimes think that I am over reacting, being anti social and feel bad about it, but I am at church to worship the Lord not to socialize. Plus I find that it is a distraction. I am focused on the persons hand instead of the prayer. I feel comfort in the fact that others feel the same.

Benjamin

 

[Siegmund]

Right around the time of the Lord’s Prayer one or both of my children always needs to be picked up, which in either case occupies fully both of my hands. Funny how that happens. This is a better defense for me than closing eyes/crossing hands as others have suggested, but then again, not everyone has kids. If you don’t have small kids with you at Mass, just look around and no doubt you’ll find plenty of parents willing to lend you theirs.

 

[Beverly]

I belong to a parish that has recently addressed the holding of hands during the Lord’s Prayer as well as some other gestures that were familiar to us. I realize these were not in the rubrics and it was explained to us that we should not make gestures that everyone in the universal church does not make. Interestingly enough, the deacon who had the most influence and has been the most outspoken about these liturgical “abuses” makes a gesture during the consecration which I also do but most of the congregation doesn’t and that is touching his chest with his closed fist and probably murmuring “My Lord and My God” as I do. Now this is not a universal gesture so I am not sure it is different than simply making a very natural gesture with your hands when we say “And also with you.” That I just chalked up to the differences in how people talk with their hands while others don’t. Now let me say that I do obey the requests of our priests not to hold hands or gesture especially when sitting in the choir. However if I am in the congregation and someone next to me offers his hand during the Our Father, I am going to take it. It does not bother me in the least to hold a stranger’s hand - we are worshipping together so we are not really strangers. I guess the person who comes to my mind is Mother Theresa - she did much more intimate things for strangers who needed care. You can’t get much more intimate than caring for a sick person’s needs - feeding, washing, etc. Maybe I am the only person who will touch that person next to me all week. I do not have a problem with someone who does not want to hold someone’s hand - they may have severe arthritis and it is painful to hold hands or some other reason. But I don’t think anyone is going to hell over a little hand holding during mass.

 

[Charles]

Beverly:

Now let me say that I do obey the requests of our priests not to hold hands or gesture especially when sitting in the choir. However if I am in the congregation and someone next to me offers his hand during the Our Father, I am going to take it. It does not bother me in the least to hold a stranger’s hand - we are worshipping together so we are not really strangers. I guess the person who comes to my mind is Mother Theresa - she did much more intimate things for strangers who needed care. You can’t get much more intimate than caring for a sick person’s needs - feeding, washing, etc. Maybe I am the only person who will touch that person next to me all week. I do not have a problem with someone who does not want to hold someone’s hand - they may have severe arthritis and it is painful to hold hands or some other reason. But I don’t think anyone is going to hell over a little hand holding during mass.

I don’t think the issue is one of whether or not holding a person’s hands will get us sent to hell, but is rather an issue of obedience and of understanding the significance of the acts we make that are proscribed in the Liturgy and acts we just add in because we don’t “feel” that they do any harm.

I accept the position that holding hands during the Our Father tends to mitigate the intimacy that the Liturgy requires of us during the Sign of Peace just a few moments later. I suspect that this and many other issues would sort themselves out if the laity would take a bit of time to learn more about the Liturgy and why things are done the way they are. We are all required to participate in the Mass but too many of us never learned exactly what that means.

 

[David_Ancell]

Let me start by saying that, if you grab my hand during the Our Father, I will wipe my nose with your hand. No matter what the intent, no one has the right to add something to the Mass that is not in the rubrics. If it isn’t in the book, don’t do it. It doesn’t matter what kind of feelings it gives you. I’m sure that holding hands during the Our Father is not grave matter, but it still requires obedience.
I’ve heard people say, “The rubrics don’t say we can’t do it.” However, please understand the nature of liturgical law. The rubrics also don’t say that we can’t:

• Draw pictures on the pews with a magic marker.
• Say “What’s up, God?” instead of “Amen” after the prayers.
• Tell the guy in the pew next to you your sins during the Penitential Rite.
• Chew gum during Mass. Then don’t bother to spit it out as you receive Communion (although this probably breaks the Eucharist fast, and would be outright sacriligious during the reception of Communion).
• Light a match to the hymnal.
• Perform the Scripture readings as a skit.

However, I can envision that few, if any, people reading this thread would actually consider any of the above acceptable. In fact, in the case of the second and third points, the rubrics specifically say to do something else. My point is that there is no way that the rubrics can be written to prohibit everything that someone will try to do, especially considering the strange things that have happened in American liturgies. Therefore, they normally only state what is permitted. Anything else isn’t permitted.

David

 

[Veronica_Anne]

SwordofLight:

I don’t know how it “undermines” the sign of peace, because during the handshake you are looking the person square in the eye. You don’t look a person square in the eye during the Our Father.

Oh. Thanks. NOW I “get it.” (NOT)

Holding hands during the Lord’s prayer is an anonymous, intimate touching. :ehh:

I get it.

An informal touch – shaking hands – while looking the person in the eyes is a public touch wishing them the Lord’s peace.

I get it.

 

[David_Ancell]

Oh, by the way, the way I get out of holding someone’s hand is to always have my missal at Mass. I keep it in my hands so that people know there is no way they are grabbing my hand.

David

 

[Marie]

David Ancell:

Oh, by the way, the way I get out of holding someone’s hand is to always have my missal at Mass. I keep it in my hands so that people know there is no way they are grabbing my hand.

David

I try various methods to avoid it. I grab a hanky and blow my nose if I see someone trying to grab my hand or I start sneezing. That works pretty well. Sometimes if I manage a good enough sneeze I just get a slight wave of the hand for the sign of peace from others too. Problem is that takes too much time and deflects from my prayer. The favorite method is close my eyes and fold my hands and ignore all attempts. I am sure they think I am in ecstasy or just a kook, either way it works and no ones offended.

I just want to PRAY. Sigh! Is that be too much to ask?

 

[Fullsizesedan]

Let me start by saying that, if you grab my hand during the Our Father, I will wipe my nose with your hand.

I hope you’re being sarcastic, but really people should have more respect for longstanding religious traditions in some churches.

When in Rome do as the Romans.

 

[bquinnan]

David Ancell:

Let me start by saying that, if you grab my hand during the Our Father, I will wipe my nose with your hand.

I’m guessing this idea was not inspired by a “WWJD” bumper sticker.

 

[bquinnan]

David Ancell:

• Perform the Scripture readings as a skit.

David

The Passion plays in college were darn close to this, unfortunately. They didn’t have the players reading lines, at least. I remember every year Jesus was played by a girl, as if to drive home the point that he could have been a woman and it wouldn’t have mattered (supposedly).

I saw a skit performed between the Gospel and the homily once at a LifeTeen Mass. It was one of the dumbest things I’d ever seen, even for high school kids. It was on Pentecost. The kids sat in front of the alter talking about how worried they were about about what they would do without Jesus, and reminding each other of his promise to send his Spirit. Then tape recorder played the sound of wind blowing. One of the kids said something like, “Woah! That was awesome!” Another said, “Now we can do anything!”

I have no idea why the priest allowed this.

 

[Beverly]

David Ancell:

Let me start by saying that, if you grab my hand during the Our Father, I will wipe my nose with your hand.

Trying to picture Jesus doing this or even just refusing to hold someone’s hand…Why would anyone be so offended by someone holding out their hand to you?!?

I do understand the liturgy and why we do things the way we do and I am obedient to that - but I personally will not refuse to hold someone’s hand when it is offered, probably out of them not knowing they are offending someone by this gesture. My husband recently became a Catholic after 17 years of marriage and lots of prayers and these types of discussions have him shaking his head in bewilderment at how caught up we get in rules and rubrics. Probably the hardest thing to explain to a new Catholic is how all this wrangling about whether it is okay to hold hands during the Our Father or whether we can move our hands in any way when we say “And also with you.” in answer to the priest is how this is not legalism. I agree that we have a lot of Catholics out there who do not understand their faith. But I would never want to hurt or embarrass someone who holds out their hand to me during a prayer and maybe cause them to feel so unwelcome that they don’t come back. I think some people need to take a step back and remember that we need to have a little love and compassion so we are not just a bunch of clanging cymbals. You could go to mass and do every little thing perfectly according to the rubrics and miss the point completely.

 

[bob]

Karl Keating:

More likely it came through the charismatic movement.

That’s my exact thoughts. Having been to a few charismatic meetings I can imagine the progression of:
a) praying with your hands outstretched
b) and confined to the proximity of others in the pew
c) hands bumping into each other
d) grab the other persons’ hands as a final movement.

I have seen some extremes - the priests hold the altar boys, the altar boys hold the communion ministers, the communion ministers reach out to the congregation. It all looks like a New Year’s Eve party snaking around the church…

Although I do not agree with holding hands when it is not called for in the rubrics, especially having to stretch across aisles, I have no problem with holding hands within the family.

However, Beverly does seem to have a point about not refusing a stranger offering you his/her hand…

 

[Thomas]

I agree that holding hands at the Our Father should be reserved for families and those with whom we feel a similar connection. This seems to be the approach approved by Rome. I also think this would be an easy thing to fix if the bishops and pastors wanted to be serious about it. Does the practice cry out to God as an affront, an abomination? I doubt it.

Have we considered why it is so popular? Yes, it has a feel good aspect. But I think there are other reasons. After the faithful run the gauntlet of which Penitential Rite, which Responsorial Psalm (or the substitution allowed but not printed in the missalette), Credo or no Credo, which Eucharistic Prayer, and which Mystery of Faith to give their “active participation” to, they can actually stand and know exactly, every Sunday, what to say and do. And the (over)empasis on community makes handholding seem right. I may be reaching, but I think is almost a psychological release for the congregation to behave this way. However misguided, it does make sense that it has become the custom…no need to be unsure of what to say and a way to be a participating community as they have been taught.

In short, it comes partly from the structure of the Novus Ordo itself.

 

[Veronica_Anne]

David Ancell:

Oh, by the way, the way I get out of holding someone’s hand is to always have my missal at Mass. I keep it in my hands so that people know there is no way they are grabbing my hand.

David

Now THERE’s a thought… thanks!

 

[Veronica_Anne]

Marie:

The favorite method is close my eyes and fold my hands and ignore all attempts. I am sure they think I am in ecstasy or just a kook, either way it works and no ones offended.

I just want to PRAY. Sigh! Is that be too much to ask?

I’m hearing that you’re probably as frustrated as I am about all this. I just want to pray, too!

That’s what I’m going to do from here on in, rather than remaining in a kneeling position. Just so that I’m not more distracting to others than everyone else is to me.