Holding hands at the Lord's Prayer

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Thank you, justdave!!! I go to school in ABC’s (as we lovingly call ArchBishop Cahput) diocese, and so I am VERY interested in his instructons on the matter. So someone correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems that Chaput is saying that it’s ok if you do, it’s ok if you don’t, and noone should feel forced to do it. Is that the consensus? Because I am in his diocese, I would like to make sure I follow what he says.

jp2fan
 
Here’s my two cents. I hold no ones hands but mine own during prayer. If someone wants to hold my hand they can ask me out on a date. What’s next mambo lines and limbo as we pray? Maybe, chest bumps as the sign of peace. Perhaps, we will throw in a wave or two for the sake of unity. That’s what we go to mass for right? Unity.
P.S There’s a thing called the liberal catholic chruch for those who are interested in something more protestant.
 
jp2fan,

You are correct about Most Rev Chaput’s instruction. It is no more illicit to hold hands than it is that I place my arm around my wife during the homily (eeeeeekkk!!! That’s not proscribed by in the rubrics … therefore it must be forbidden!!!).

We in Colorado Springs love Archbishop Chaput too, as well as our own beloved Bishop Sheridan. 😉

God bless,

Dave
 
Dear itsjustdave1988,

I don’t think a visitor to your parish would be confused as to whether or not he should put his arm around the person next to him when he sees you do that.

I don’t think anyone would say that your action is a liturgical action.

I don’t think anyone would say the people at Mass are disunified (is that a word?) because you do that and other’s don’t.

If the Archbishop thinks it’s fine for some people to express community in this way while others don’t, good, and the people should respect his view. It seems that such a position is self-contradictory, however.

I only wish we ALL would do the same thing and not some do this and others don’t. As it is, visitors to parishes can be confused and made to feel uncomfortable and little factions start to form within parishes and cause people to leave. Should these things happen? No. Should we all be able to overlook such things for the sake of Christ? Yes. Do we all do that? No.

In short, I find myself agreeing with Archbishop Weakland over Archbishop Chaput!!! :eek: 🙂
 
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buffalo:
Concerning holding hands in the Eucharistic Liturgy the Congregation for Divine Worship in Rome responded as follows: QUERY: In some places there is a current practice whereby those taking part in the Mass replace the giving of the sign of peace at the deacon’s invitation by holding hands during the singing of the Lord’s Prayer. Is this acceptable? REPLY: The prolonged holding of hands is of itself a sign of communion rather than of peace. Further, it is a liturgical gesture introduced spontaneously but on personal initiative; it is not in the rubrics. Nor is there any clear explanation of why the sign of peace at the invitation: “Let us offer each other the sign of peace” should be supplanted in order to bring a different gesture with less meaning into another part of the Mass: the sign of peace is filled with meaning, graciousness, and Christian inspiration. Any substitution for it must be repudiated: Notitiae 11 (1975) 226. Notitiae is the journal of the Congregation in which its official interpretations of the rubrics are published.]
Code: 
    While this addresses the holding of hands at the Sign of Peace the reasons given apply also elsewhere in the Mass, including at the Our Father.
  1. It is an inappropriate “sign,” since Communion is the sign of intimacy. Thus, a gesture of intimacy is introduced both before the sign of reconciliation (the Sign of Peace), but more importantly, before Holy Communion, the sacramental sign of communion/intimacy within the People of God.
  2. It is introduced on personal initiative. The Holy See has authority over the liturgy according to Vatican II’s “Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy” #22 and canon 838 of the Code of Canon Law.
This gesture has come into widespread use, often leaving bishops and pastors at a loss as to how to reverse the situation. For individuals, I would recommend closed eyes and a prayerful posture as sufficient response, rather than belligerence. Most laity, and probably many priests, are blind to the liturgical significance of interrupting the flow of the Mass in this way. It is not necessary to lose one’s peace over this or be an irritation to others. Some proportion is required. If asked why you don’t participate, simply, plainly and charitably tell the questioner of your discovery. If some chance of changing the practice is possible talk to the pastor or work with other laity through the parish council. You can also write the bishop, as is your right in the case of any liturgical abuse not resolved at the parish level. If your judgment is that no change is possible then I believe you are excused from further fraternal correction.
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Read the above…
 
dear buffalo,

There are some people on this thread who do not like the idea of holding hands with the stranger.
Veronica Anne:
I’m not comfortable holding ANY stranger’s hand. To me, holding someone’s hand is reserved as an expression of romance.
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CatholicGeek:
Personally, I’ve stopped participating in this unless I personally know the person to my right/left, and feel “like family” with them, and know that they feel comfortable doing so.
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Are we all really brothers and sisters in Christ? Or do we just say that and then look down our noses at those who are not as correct as we are in the way we worship God?

If someone is such a well-developed catholic that they know the precise way that the mass should be celebrated, why don’t they exercise the charity that is the fruit of the Spirit that must guide their holy lives and be nice to some person who just wants to hold their hand…

I think Christ might want us to care more about how our actions show love to one another than whether we are following the letter of the liturgical law. The Pharisees also had this problem. It is definitely a balance that must be reached.

Peace.
 
I just received the latest issue of the Catholic World Report, and there was a nice section about Redemptionis Sacramentum. Here’s a quote from the article:

“Archbishop Angelo Amato, the secretary of the Congregation for the Doctine of Faith, also spoke at the Vatican press conference. He stated that arbitrary changes* in the liturgy * 'not only deform the celebration, but cause doctrinal insecurity, confusion, and scandal for the People of God." Archbishop Amato rejected the argument that liturgical novelties demonstrate a healthy sense of freedom;he countered that* when celebrants unilaterally change the forms of Catholic worship, they infringe of the rights of the congregation.* Obedience to the Church’s liturgical norms provides real freedom, he continued, since the norms ensure that the legitimate rights of the faithful will be respected” (emphasis mine)

Hmm… doesn’t this sound like it could apply to this issue??:hmmm:
 
Just a curiosity…

Remember last winter when everyone had the flu, and many parishes & dioceses asked us to refrain from shaking hands during the Sign of Peace or receiving the Precious Blood if you were ill; however, I don’t recall any of them telling us to refrain from holding hands during the Our Father (at least they didn’t in my diocese, and in the few others from which I happen to read the statement.) Why was that :confused:
 
h(name removed by moderator)2four:
Hmm… doesn’t this sound like it could apply to this issue??
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Not unless Rome sends a delegate over here to make the rounds and lay down the law, I fear that no, it won’t apply in many places. But unfortunately, the Church apparently doesn’t do things that way.
 
I was surprised that *Redemptionis Sacramentum *did not address the holding of hands during the “Our Father”. The document surely did not hesitate to specify many abuses unabashedly.
 
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iguana27:
dear buffalo,

There are some people on this thread who do not like the idea of holding hands with the stranger.

Are we all really brothers and sisters in Christ? Or do we just say that and then look down our noses at those who are not as correct as we are in the way we worship God?

If someone is such a well-developed catholic that they know the precise way that the mass should be celebrated, why don’t they exercise the charity that is the fruit of the Spirit that must guide their holy lives and be nice to some person who just wants to hold their hand…

I think Christ might want us to care more about how our actions show love to one another than whether we are following the letter of the liturgical law. The Pharisees also had this problem. It is definitely a balance that must be reached.

Peace.
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But who decides the balance? There is the problem when we don’t “follow the law” Where does it stop? What if I want to hug you, or kiss you at the sign of peace? Should you allow me to you even if it makes you feel uncomfortable? If don’t allow me to hug you, or kiss you can I consider you a Pharisee?

Of course we are to love each other, just as we are to love Christ. We can show our love for Christ by trusting in the wisdom of his Church. She (the Church) is our mother. Our mother who will teach us and guide us, and tell us the truth, not “what we want to hear” for our own good.

As of now, Our Mother the Church has not approved the holding of hands at mass. If we look for ways around her decision, we invite much confusion. Please, let us trust Christ in his Church, and celebrate His Paschal Mystery the way He has taught us through His Church.

There are many other opportunities for you to show your love for your Christian brothers and sisters than by holding hands at mass. I am sure they are many people in nursing homes that would love for you to come by and hold their hand as you recite the Lord’s Prayer with them. Not only would that be appropriate, but it would be saintly. See, there is a proper time and place for everything.

Serving Christ,
 
😃 Marie that’s great!:rotfl: Great tip. I will cough into my hands second before the peace, or right before i am OBLIGATED to hold hands during the Our Father. Howevr, if someone DOES extend their hand, it IS very uncharitable NOT to shake their hand during the sign of peace. NOW! The Our father, that’s a whole different thing. I have seen people stop going to Mass because they felt HUMILIATED when someone (especially if of a different race: this is percieved by the one who did not get the handshake returned as: “that’s because I am from a different race”(now, of course I only beleive there is ONE race: the human race.
Anyway, I do agree with you overall, while at the same time remembering the words of Saint Paul: "if I say I have faith, but do not have love(charity) I am a noisy gong.":love:
 
h(name removed by moderator)2four:
Just a curiosity…
… however, I don’t recall any of them telling us to refrain from holding hands during the Our Father (at least they didn’t in my diocese, and in the few others from which I happen to read the statement.) Why was that :confused:
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Hmmm, interesting. Maybe its the same reason we get instantaneous indults whenever the chance arises to get rid of a holy day of obligation, but when a document like Red. Sac. comes out it is an opportunity for “reflection and self-examination”, not action.
Again, I am personally opposed to hand-holding, but will usually indulge someone who wants to hand-hold (unless it is a distracting human chain or mandated by the celebrant). Even so, it really seems like any time something comes along which demands less of us (ie Friday abstinence, transfering holy days etc) the Bishops are eager to implement the change, but whenever something comes along which demands more of us the Bishops see it as an opportunity to reflect, consult, and perhaps have a “listening session” until the opportunity is forgotten.
 
Br. Dan,
I don’t think anyone would say that your action is a liturgical action.
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True. But in my diocese, Bishop Sheridan, like Archbishop Chaput, takes great effort to teach the faithful on issues where there may be confusion. His prelate went to every diocesene parish and gave a three-day seminar on the liturgy.

The issue of holding hands was brought up. It is NOT a liturgical action, according to our Bishop. The celebrant is prohibited from holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer. However, the laity are not prohibited, nor are they told they have to. This is not a liturgical change, as it has never been considered an action proscribed or prohibited by the rubrics.

The laity can hold hands, hug one another, put their arms around each other, or make any other non-liturgical gesture, so long as it does not distrupt the dignity of the Mass. I have often just closed my eyes and prayed with hands folded, and nobody has come at me with torches and pitch forks because of it. 😉

God bless,

Dave
 
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Benjamin:
After returning to the Church from a twenty year hiatus the holding hands during the Lords prayer and the Eucharistic ministers was a big shocker. Did I mess up and go to a Protestant church? The kicker was the hand squeeze after the prayer was ended. From a female I can get over it, but when a male and it turns out Eucharistic minister gave my hand a squeeze I had had enough. I now find an empty section to sit in. I sometimes think that I am over reacting, being anti social and feel bad about it, but I am at church to worship the Lord not to socialize. Plus I find that it is a distraction. I am focused on the persons hand instead of the prayer. I feel comfort in the fact that others feel the same.

Benjamin
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Oh, gee, Benjamin! thank you SO MUCH for your post!

I’ve been feeling like I must be the only one who’s so “unsociable” at Mass because I just plain am weirded out over this whole “kumbaya” hand-holding stuff.

I can’t remember the last time that I actually prayed… PRAYED… the Lord’s Prayer at Mass.

I’m just so darned DISTRACTED by the whole hand-holding with strangers thing.

Especially if it’s a man whose hand I’m holding.

I ain’t in the mood for love… if ya know what I mean? I mean… romantic love… at Mass, for crying out loud!

Maybe I’m just so overwhelmed with this whole thing that I seriously can’t even think straight about it.

So I just close my eyes all the way from when people stand for the Lord’s Prayer until I hear the rustling ending from people standing straight again… and the Agnus Dei starts.

Sigh.

Thanks, all, for listening!
Love, your sister in Christ, Veronica Anne
 
With all due respect, it seems to me that all of y’all who get ‘distracted’ by people showing their love for each other in a pure, caring way, well it honestly just seems like a personal problem to me. If you don’t want to do it, fine!!! But why should everyone stop just because you can’t concentrate? Shut your eyes or something.

jp2fan

sidenote, justdave, did you ever know Bishop Hannifen?
 
Yes, I agree, jp2fan, I think there are a few neuroses going on here. I have never seen people so flustered by a little hand holding. :eek: There is absolutely nothing sexual about holding someone’s hand in prayer. Veronica Anne, the poor guy who is holding your hand probably has no idea that you are attributing such motives to him.
 
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Beverly:
Yes, I agree, jp2fan, I think there are a few neuroses going on here. I have never seen people so flustered by a little hand holding. :eek: There is absolutely nothing sexual about holding someone’s hand in prayer. Veronica Anne, the poor guy who is holding your hand probably has no idea that you are attributing such motives to him.
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Are you saying that the people who disagree with the kumbayah are neurotic? :confused: Isn’t that a little harsh, considering that the hand-holding stuff was never accepted by the Church?
 
… the hand-holding stuff was never accepted by the Church?
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It is neither proscribed nor prohibited by the rubrics. But that does not mean it was never accepted by the Church, does it?

I make the sign of the Cross after receiving the Holy Eucharist. This too is neither proscribed nor prohibited by the rubrics. Does that mean that making this gesture “was never accepted by the Church?”

Your bishop may have prohibited it. It is within his authority to do so. My bishop, however, has not. He’s only prohibited his clergy from doing it, as that IS disruptive in his view.

God bless,

Dave
 
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