Holding hands during the Our Father

[roadsend]

There’s always someone who has to go to the absurd.

And just a few decades ago an unbroken chain of hand holding across the aisles pew to pew throughout the worship space would have been absurd and unthinkable, especially at one of the most solemn times of the Mass.
The absurd has a way of becoming common place when folks ignore the rules, disdain tradition, and follow novelties.

 

[BettyM]

So then we the laity can initiate any gestures we wish during the Mass and it is permissible as a “personal practice”?

Holy rollers and snake handlers, here we come!

There’s always someone who has to go to the absurd.

It seems alot of people have gone to the absurd in this post and made it out to be more than what it was, though, I agree with roadsend we should not be able to initiate any posture at mass as a personal practice. That’s one thing that keeps us united.

I would ask that everyone go back to page 8 and read why I asked this question in the first place.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Today at Mass in the pew in front of me a woman who was by herself reached out to the people on each side of her to hold hands during the Our Father. I noticed that both people on each side were hesitant and tried to continue in their prayer, looking down, but the woman held out her hands until they agreed and held hands and then raising them high at end.
I really don’t like doing the hand holding bit during the Our Father, especially raising them at the end. I feel that is meant for the priest. I have read different places where it is a liturgical abuse, though, a minor one.

I was once at a Mass where the priest told everyone we were to hold hands. I didn’t return to that parish.

My question is: If you do not want to hold hands during the Our Father and someone is holding their hand out and almost insisting what would you do? What should you do?

I should say also that at this parish very few people do this.

I think you should definitely take the other’s hand if it is outstretched to you. Then find a differerent row next Mass!

 

[FAB]

It seems alot of people have gone to the absurd in this post and made it out to be more than what it was, though, I agree with roadsend we should not be able to initiate any posture at mass as a personal practice. That’s one thing that keeps us united.

I would ask that everyone go back to page 8 and read why I asked this question in the first place.

I would take hold of thier hand, they are my brother or sister in Christ, who died for me and for them. Who am I to refuse them?
I have held the hands of prisoners, of the dying, the grieving,in prayer all my brothers and sisters. The human touch is special, it says I accept you, and on some level I care for you and love you as a child of God. Christ touched the lowest anoung us, how can I do any less?
Certainly I cannot refuse anothers hand in my Fathers house.

Peace,
FAB

 

[ProVobis]

I would ask that everyone go back to page 8 and read why I asked this question in the first place.

If you mean your OP, I realize you mean well and all that, but I would say it’s a disruptive practice and can be easily construed to be sexual harrassment. Many in the workforce have been severely reprimanded for things that don’t even reach the state of touching someone else, so I would say this practice with strangers in church and forcing those who refuse to hold hands is way out of line. You don’t even have to shake hands to acknowledge those around you so why can’t you feel as a community by just praying together, hands to yourself or to God?

 

[BettyM]

As I am the original poster of this question I should say: Well, first of all I am not against touching peoples hands. I am a nurse and I do that all the time. If germs or touching people worried me I would have been in trouble along time ago. I, also, love little old ladies. My job is in a nursing home and so that makes them one of my favorite patients. Also, my mom is a little old lady and I hope to be a little old lady someday.

I have been in churches where the hand holding was insisited by the priest. There were alot of distractions, moving about and people moving in the aisle to find someone to hold their hand.
Just before the Our Father we have been through the most important prayer of the Mass. It is a very solemn moment and what comes soon after is the prayer of the Lamb of God, where we are humbling ourselves telling God we are not worthy to recieve Him, body, blood, soul and divinity, but He comes to us anyway out of love. I like maintaining the solemnity of the moment and having been away from the Church and now back and understand what miracle just took place at the Eucharistic prayer, I feel it is a very special moment.

I can’t read peoples hearts but it just appears the hand holding and raising of hands at the end takes away our focus on God and puts it on ourselves and causes alot of distractions. It also seems redundant when soon comes the sign of peace.

I have been in an evangelical protestant area for quite a few years and have struggled with trying to find unity. Coming into the Catholic Church was great. I love the unity here. I am at awe every Sunday when we are saying the Our Father that all around the world Catholics together are praying this prayer and the rest of the Mass. For me it is a very awesome moment with our hearts united in prayer.

If people want to hold hands and raise them up to God that is fine but I don’t feel if it is something you do not want to do you should have to. If that is what you want to do then do it and just pay attention to how others are praying at that time and don’t force them to do what feels uncomfortable to them.

 

[BettyM]

I would take hold of thier hand, they are my brother or sister in Christ, who died for me and for them. Who am I to refuse them?
I have held the hands of prisoners, of the dying, the grieving,in prayer all my brothers and sisters. The human touch is special, it says I accept you, and on some level I care for you and love you as a child of God. Christ touched the lowest anoung us, how can I do any less?
Certainly I cannot refuse anothers hand in my Fathers house.

Peace,
FAB

Well, first of all I am not against touching peoples hands. I am a nurse and I do that all the time. If germs or touching people worried me I would have been in trouble along time ago. I understand, too, they are my brothers and sisters in Christ and He died for them also. It isn’t about touching people. That wasn’t the reason for my question. As a Christian nurse I touch and reach out to people all the time.

I have been in churches where the hand holding was insisited by the priest. There were alot of distractions, moving about and people moving in the aisle to find someone to hold their hand.
Just before the Our Father we have been through the most important prayer of the Mass. It is a very solemn moment and what comes soon after is the prayer of the Lamb of God, where we are humbling ourselves telling God we are not worthy to recieve Him, body, blood, soul and divinity, but He comes to us anyway out of love. I like maintaining the solemnity of the moment and having been away from the Church and now back and understand what miracle just took place at the Eucharistic prayer, I feel it is a very special moment.

I can’t read peoples hearts but it just appears the hand holding and raising of hands at the end takes away our focus on God and puts it on ourselves and causes alot of distractions. It also seems redundant when soon comes the sign of peace.

I have been in an evangelical protestant area for quite a few years and have struggled with trying to find unity. Coming into the Catholic Church was great. I love the unity here. I am at awe every Sunday when we are saying the Our Father that all around the world Catholics together are praying this prayer and the rest of the Mass. For me it is a very awesome moment with our hearts united in prayer.

If people want to hold hands and raise them up to God that is fine but I don’t feel if it is something you do not want to do you should have to. If that is what you want to do then do it and just pay attention to how others are praying at that time and don’t force them to do what feels uncomfortable to them.

 

[Apryl]

Out of curiosity, do you see hand-holding as an
attempt to glorify ourselves? That’s a spin I haven’t yet heard put on it.

That is just what I see.

I have been at Masses where as it is time for us to pray (or sing) the Our Father, people get up…

… a little girl and her sister ‘fight’ over who will hold their hand on top

… a woman stops to put sanitizer on her hands because she was blowing her nose just minutes before

… a man moves some 8 feet to one side to get the next person’s hand… and his wife snatches him back because the ‘next person’ is an attractive woman

…a person was at the end of their pew and was praying when they stopped to walk over to another ‘line’ of people to continue the circle.

… a person is at the end of their pew and the people in the pew in front decide she ‘needs’ to hold someone’s hand, so they make a three person hand-holding

… a woman realizes that the woman she ‘can’t stand’ is the next person to go to, so she reaches to the pew behind her (just catty, I tell ya)

… while holding hands, a person has an itch, and try to remove their hands in order to scratch, and have to wrangle his hand free because the holder didn’t want to ‘break the chain’.

… a person with sweaty palms is giggling because of the reaction of the person with whom they are holding hands.

So, yes, IMO, there is a selfish focus when people hold hands. Does it really serve any other person than to try to glorify a person? as a ‘better’ Catholic?

 

[Apryl]

I want to know how and when this practice came to be in the Catholic Church? I think it comes from the Evangelical churches where everyone does this. Like most people have said here, not many people do this in my church, but there are always some. If someone seems really needy to hold hands, I will do it, but generally I prefer not to. I also don’t like the arms out gesture when saying “and also with you” to the Priest. But it’s no big deal, I just wonder how it all came to be.

YIKES! I HATE that.

Where did that come from? I admit that I used to go to Mass, and then I stopped, when I got back, everyone was holding their hands on "The Lord be with you… We lift up are hearts…’ But these same people will not bow when they get to the incarnation in the Nicene Creed… or even pause as they get to the Tabernacle.

I think I’m going to need to leave this forum for a few days. I’m getting way to stressed out!

 

[MarkThompson]

So, yes, IMO, there is a selfish focus when people hold hands. Does it really serve any other person than to try to glorify a person? as a ‘better’ Catholic?

If a family around the supper-table joins hands to say Grace before their meal, does it serve any purpose other than to glorify themselves? Would you recommend they stop? If you think it’s a bad idea at Grace, I’d be curious to know what your reasons were. And if you think it’s find at Grace and not okay at Mass, is there some sense in which the hand-holding is not self-glorification one but becomes self-glorifying at the other?

 

[Apryl]

If a family around the supper-table joins hands to say Grace before their meal, does it serve any purpose other than to glorify themselves? Would you recommend they stop? If you think it’s a bad idea at Grace, I’d be curious to know what your reasons were. And if you think it’s find at Grace and not okay at Mass, is there some sense in which the hand-holding is not self-glorification one but becomes self-glorifying at the other?

No, I would not.

It’s a meal… it’s a (traditional) family.

You responded to the post where I spelled out rather EXPLICITLY why I find it puts the focus where it should not be.

You bring up a good point, though: there is a time and a place for everything.

The Mass is neither the time, nor the place, for people to concentrate on their social skills.

 

[MarkThompson]

No, I would not.

It’s a meal… it’s a (traditional) family.

You responded to the post where I spelled out rather EXPLICITLY why I find it puts the focus where it should not be.

Well, Grace is about thanking God. If you add hand-holding, does that make it more “horizontal,” “self-glorifying,” etc? I mean, it would still be better than no Grace, but would Grace with hands soberly folded be the best of all?

Personally I don’t think so. But that just goes to show that hand-holding is not, somehow, innately a “horizontal” or “self-glorifying” gesture. Obviously, the things you described in your previous post sound disruptive and distracting. But if just, say, one family at Mass wanted to hold each other’s hands during the Our Father, would that be okay? They have definitely been people on this thread whose opinion seems to be, no, it would not be okay because hands have to be soberly folded during the Our Father. I’m just trying to figure out on what principle this is claimed to be true. If it’s because holding hands makes the prayer about one another and not about God, does that reasoning apply to Grace as well?

You bring up a good point, though: there is a time and a place for everything.

The Mass is neither the time, nor the place, for people to concentrate on their social skills.

Quite right!

 

[Apryl]

If someone reaches out to hold hands with me, I will do so. I am not distracted by the practice - nor should I be. I am there for God and the added touch of an individual’s hand won’t change that.

Are you suggesting that those of us who are distracted by such things are somehow not there for God?

 

[Third_Day]

So then we the laity can initiate any gestures we wish during the Mass and it is permissible as a “personal practice”?

Holy rollers and snake handlers, here we come!

Making the sign of the cross on the forehead, mouth and heart at the Gospel is also NOT in the rubrics yet everyone does it and no one complains. Why is that? Holding hands is simply a custom that has been developing for decades.

 

[Apryl]

But if just, say, one family at Mass wanted to hold each other’s hands during the Our Father, would that be okay? They have definitely been people on this thread whose opinion seems to be, no, it would not be okay because hands have to be soberly folded during the Our Father. !

Oh… Ok. I am wrong for not remembering that there are a lot of posters on this thread, with a lot of comments.

Some people just get people mixed up (this is usually me) and others just ask for specifications (this seems to be you)

That said: I have no problem with families or any one else holding hands during the Our Father. I think it’s easy to do when you are next to one another.

What is a problem for me is some of the manipulations and such people will go through in an effort to stop praying so that they can hold hands!

Just like for some people, at the sign of peace, they shake some people’s hands, hug others and still others they kiss. They can do this if they just touch those around them… and some others will try to make sure they have physically touched every one in the church. Ok… when the priest is for some odd reason not back at the altar. … but if the priest is back and they are at ‘The Lamb of God’, it’s time to get back to continue with the Celebration of the Mass … Oops… off on a tangent.

I sometimes hold hands with people. I did it today at Mass. There were a few of us there, we were near each other, I felt compelled to hold the hands of those adjacent to me. If, however, someone didn’t choose to hold my hand, I would NOT have insisted that they did, though. Which is one of the places where my opposition shows up.

I hope that I answered the question you were asking. I do understand your question now… at least I think I do.please wait 2 seconds for an uncompressed image, or press Ctrl+F5 for original quality page

 

[PatriceA]

Making the sign of the cross on the forehead, mouth and heart at the Gospel is also NOT in the rubrics yet everyone does it and no one complains. Why is that? Holding hands is simply a custom that has been developing for decades.

Just because its been developing as a custom, does not mean it should be acceptable NOR should anyone that is not comfortable with it be forced to do it or feel guilty for not wanting to do it. You want to hold hands during the Our Father, so be it, but respect those of us that do not feel comfortable doing so.

 

[adrift]

At the Lord’s prayer we are praying, The sign of peace is not suppose to a “hi how are you” but “the peace of Christ be with you” a blessing and asking that Christ be with them.

Peace,
FAB

If you have been holding hands at the Our Father, the point of the sign of peace is lessoned and has lost its point. I believe that is why it has been discussed moving the exchange of peace to another part in mass. Theologically, it makes no sense to be offering a sign of peace right after everyone has been hold hands.

 

[roadsend]

Making the sign of the cross on the forehead, mouth and heart at the Gospel is also NOT in the rubrics yet everyone does it and no one complains. Why is that? Holding hands is simply a custom that has been developing for decades.

To the best of my knowledge making the sign of the cross on the forehead, mouth and heart at the Gospel is a non-disruptive custom of very long standing, which has never in any way been controversial or been repudiated by the Church.
On the other hand the movements and contortions involved in creating the chain across aisles etc.are disruptive and hand holding itself during the Mass has been repudiated by the Church.
("…The prolonged holding of hands is of itself a sign of communion rather than of peace. Further, it is a liturgical gesture introduced spontaneously but on personal initiative; it is not in the rubrics. Nor is there any clear explanation of why the sign of peace at the invitation: “Let us offer each other the sign of peace” should be supplanted in order to bring a different gesture with less meaning into another part of the Mass: the sign of peace is filled with meaning, graciousness, and Christian inspiration. Any substitution for it must be repudiated: Notitiae 11 (1975) 226.")

 

[MarkThompson]

To the best of my knowledge making the sign of the cross on the forehead, mouth and heart at the Gospel is a non-disruptive custom of very long standing, which has never in any way been controversial or been repudiated by the Church.
On the other hand the movements and contortions involved in creating the chain across aisles etc.are disruptive and hand holding itself during the Mass has been repudiated by the Church.
("…The prolonged holding of hands is of itself a sign of communion rather than of peace. Further, it is a liturgical gesture introduced spontaneously but on personal initiative; it is not in the rubrics. Nor is there any clear explanation of why the sign of peace at the invitation: “Let us offer each other the sign of peace” should be supplanted in order to bring a different gesture with less meaning into another part of the Mass: the sign of peace is filled with meaning, graciousness, and Christian inspiration. Any substitution for it must be repudiated: Notitiae 11 (1975) 226.")

Well, no, what was repudiated was replacing the sign of peace, which is in the rubrics, with the holding of hands during the Our Father, which is not. That’s made clear by the question, whose answer you printed:
QUERY: In some places there is a current practice whereby those taking part in the Mass replace the giving of the sign of peace at the deacon’s invitation by holding hands during the singing of the Lord’s Prayer. Is this acceptable?

 

[roadsend]

Well, no, what was repudiated was replacing the sign of peace, which is in the rubrics, with the holding of hands during the Our Father, which is not. That’s made clear by the question, whose answer you printed:
QUERY: In some places there is a current practice whereby those taking part in the Mass replace the giving of the sign of peace at the deacon’s invitation by holding hands during the singing of the Lord’s Prayer. Is this acceptable?

See post #97.