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roadsend
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Your words, not hers.
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choy
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am i stating something? doesn’t a question mark stand for anything these days?
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FAB
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Which calls for the full participation of the faithful, including singing, praying and giving glory to the Lord.
Peace,
FAB
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archangel04
Guest
Yes we are called at the end of the Mass to do so. We are are in perfect communion through Christ alone in the Eucharist, no need for us to add other things that are not part of the Mass. A priest can celebrate Mass alone, although it is highly recommended that one other person be present, he can celebrate it with ommiting some of the blessings to the faithful. Hold hands in a public prayer, before meals, before an event, or anything else is good and even encouraged, but NOT during the sacrifice of the Mass.
I know that the quote of scripture is out of context, I provide it to you to show that at one point in scripture even our Lord says not to be touched.
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cecilia97
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I clasp my hands and look down at the Our Father. If the person next to me holds out their hands, I continue to pray, looking down. If the person next to me pokes me in the arm or grabs my hand (have had both of these happen) I politely smile and say “no thank you”. The smile is important.
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archangel04
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Tantum_ergo
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I think that both perspectives (Hand holding is fine, hand holding is not fine) need to be made without denigration of the other side.
I’m seeing as much of the “you people are happy clappy innovators who aren’t reverent and who are pushy” as of the "you people are hateful and don’t understand how important it is to have visible signs of loving and touching’.
It isn’t necessary to use terms like ‘happy clappy" OR terms like "germaphobic’.
Can’t we actually respect each other when we disagree and address actions etc. without exaggeration or deliberately attempting to cast the other view in the most negative light?
I’m seeing as much of the “you people are happy clappy innovators who aren’t reverent and who are pushy” as of the "you people are hateful and don’t understand how important it is to have visible signs of loving and touching’.
It isn’t necessary to use terms like ‘happy clappy" OR terms like "germaphobic’.
Can’t we actually respect each other when we disagree and address actions etc. without exaggeration or deliberately attempting to cast the other view in the most negative light?
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FAB
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The only time a priest is allowed to celebrate alone is in an extreme circumstance. Very, few of these.
As far as the sacrific of the mass. In Jewish tradition, there were many levels of sacrifice. These were animal sacrifices and grain sacrifices. The celbration of passover, as Christ did , was a Jewish form of sacrafice in in the sharing of that meal.
Our understanding of the sacrifice in the mass relates to this form. It reminds of Christ sacrific for us on the cross.
Quoting scripture out of context to try to prove a point is isogesis, which is false teaching and leads the heresy.
Peace,
FAB
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archangel04
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First of all I am not a heretic, I am far from it. I wasnt quoting it our of complete context as Jesus did tell Mary that He was not to be touched at that moment, how is this heresy when I pointed out the reason for it. If holding hands during the Our Father was Dogma or something that the Pope fully approved and declared infallible, then yes I would be in heresy for going against it, but it’s not even part of the rubrics so I am no where near heresy so watch what you type.
I don’t know about you, but if I were to be “physiscally” present at calvary, and I am speaking about around the year 33 here, I think the last thing in my mind would be about holding hands with the soldiers or people around me. Again I am all up for holding hands during prayer other than the Mass, it has no part in it and should remain out IMHO. If you still want to do it the be my gues, but respect other who wish not to be touched.
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azugirl
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I used to hold hands during the Our Father, but I find I would lose my concentration when doing so. I fold my hands (as in prayer) and bow down now, but when someone sticks out their hand I take it.
The main reason I stopped holding hands was because my last Parish Pastor had us instead just hold out our hands and not hold the person’s next to us. That is what most people in my parish do now. I guess my mind starts to drift off towards what my hands are doing, so, as I said, I now just clasp my hands together.
Both ways seem okay to me, but it may be a good idea to ask your Pastor’s opinion, or any priest really.
There are no doctrines forbidding either way (at least that I know of) so you may want to pray about it too. Praying with my hands together feels more reverent to me, so that’s what do, pretty simple, eh?
The main reason I stopped holding hands was because my last Parish Pastor had us instead just hold out our hands and not hold the person’s next to us. That is what most people in my parish do now. I guess my mind starts to drift off towards what my hands are doing, so, as I said, I now just clasp my hands together.
Both ways seem okay to me, but it may be a good idea to ask your Pastor’s opinion, or any priest really.
There are no doctrines forbidding either way (at least that I know of) so you may want to pray about it too. Praying with my hands together feels more reverent to me, so that’s what do, pretty simple, eh?
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FAB
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You were trying to use a scriptual text, out of context to try to prove a point for not holding hands during the Lord’s prayer. I wasn’t calling you a heretic, but pointing out that using such methods leads to heresy.
I would suspect that the follows of Jesus at the foot of the coss were doing much more than holding hands. They would have been holding each other in a time of great grief, trying to comfort each other. When Jesus told the disciple, “behold your mother” do you think the disciple just folded his hands and stood beside her, or would he have embraced and supported her.
Peace,
FAB
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tapinu33
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I personally miss the reverence of The Mass. When you bring in happy clappy ( I don’tknow what else to call it…sorry) then you all join hands then everyone is talking and chatting before during and after Mass and then people wear shorts and sleeveless tops, and then the tabernacles are somewhere out on the parking lot and it gets worse,we need to re-claim our Catholic Church. I am from Europe and when I moved to the US I was horrified at how slack the Church is here. I waited for confession and the Priest said he was busy and to come AFTER Mass!!! I am moving house near a Church that is right for me…thats all
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estesbob
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Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. " (Spirit of the Liturgy p. 198)
Pope Benedict XVI
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CatholicFireman
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I hate it when that happens. In some churches they applaud the choir. IMHO, the mass is for the glory of God not for anything or anyone else.
Sorry for wandering off subject.
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roadsend
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When the hand holding thing started in my local church about twenty years ago, it consisted of a few groups of folks.
Gradually, more and more folks were bullied verbally and by nudges to join in.
Now that the majority have been co-opted into this non-approved practice, there is a more aggressive attitude toward the folks who refuse to participate.
The across the aisle thing started this winter. If you refuse to join in, they will reach right in front of you to keep the chain from being broken.
Along with the other abuses going on, music, piano, chattering etc., it is hard to believe that I am actually at a Catholic Mass.
Watching Mass on EWTN is beginning to look better all the time for those Sundays that I cannot take most of the day to drive into Portland for a reverent Mass, which actually reflects the teachings of the Church.
I have pretty much had it with these novelties, which continue to corrupt and distort our liturgical traditions.
Gradually, more and more folks were bullied verbally and by nudges to join in.
Now that the majority have been co-opted into this non-approved practice, there is a more aggressive attitude toward the folks who refuse to participate.
The across the aisle thing started this winter. If you refuse to join in, they will reach right in front of you to keep the chain from being broken.
Along with the other abuses going on, music, piano, chattering etc., it is hard to believe that I am actually at a Catholic Mass.
Watching Mass on EWTN is beginning to look better all the time for those Sundays that I cannot take most of the day to drive into Portland for a reverent Mass, which actually reflects the teachings of the Church.
I have pretty much had it with these novelties, which continue to corrupt and distort our liturgical traditions.
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archangel04
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You stated
I only used scripture to point out that not all the time did Jesus allow Himself to be touched. No where in that passage does it state about not holding hands at mass, I know that, but I only applied it to you becuase of you statment about Christ touching others. Again He touched and healed during the time that He saw fit, but there was also a moment where he was not to be touched. I only compare that moment to the Mass, where focus is all on God.
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archangel04
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It’s not an opinion it’s the truth. 24/7 we have time to dedicate to ourselves, family and neighbors, why can’t we focus, woship, and dedicate an entire hour to our Lord, without being distracted, or feel like you went into the wrong Church? This society is all about self-center, and that’s why holding hands in mass is wrong, becuase the basic idea is “all about us”. No matter how prayerful or reverant you try to make it, it does not compare to a revereant mass with sacred music that’s been out longer 500 years.
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