Holding hands during the Our Father

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FAB said:
Your friend is tanted by his job. Perhaps he needs some prayer tio see that is is good in most men. The facilty I minister is is low security, the men waht ot come to know the Lord of their own free will. Even my feelow ministers in more secure facilty have the same experance. Bring prisoners into the faith through RCIA, even a couple of lifers.
The Holy Spirit does wonderful work and changes the hearts of men, even after they are in the free.

Peace,
FAB
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Shame on you for your misguided judgement. You assume much about his outlook. What makes you able to judge that he does not see the good in the men that he guards. The prisoners were going to kill another guard but they had to go past him, which meant they had to kill him too. They admired him because of his fair treatment and just couldnt bring themsleves to harm him. You misunderstood that it was only his opinion. There was a book given to those in training to guard about the cons that prisoners use. I think you are naive
 
I’ve tried not to say it, but I can’t control myself:

‘Touchy-feely’.
 
adrift said:
Shame on you for your misguided judgement. You assume much about his outlook. What makes you able to judge that he does not see the good in the men that he guards. The prisoners were going to kill another guard but they had to go past him, which meant they had to kill him too. They admired him because of his fair treatment and just couldnt bring themsleves to harm him. You misunderstood that it was only his opinion. There was a book given to those in training to guard about the cons that prisoners use. I think you are naive
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It was your friend that was indicating the lake of redemtion in these men, stating that:“you have been conned big time.” It’s not being judgemental, just recongizing that being exoposed the type of mem that are behind bars has an effect on ones view.
You are being judgmental if you think that I am naive about what prisoners are capable of. I did not enter tthe prison withiout training from prison guards about their cons. But having witnessed the Holy Spirit within those walls of confinement, there is thou redemtion possible for those who ernestly seek it.

Peace,
FAB
 
choy said:
if a prayer posture is a stumbling block for him, then he isn’t ready to become a Catholic
if he’s going to a Catholic Church and expecting something similar to a Lutheran church, then he’s looking for a Lutheran church, not a Catholic Church
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Holding hands during the Our Father is not REQUIRED in the Church, and I can easily see why he is upset. We do this in our parish also, but usually I don’t, and just hold my hands in prayer. If this is upsetting him, he should be told that he does not have to participate in it.

Some parishes don’t do this, and if possible they may try attending a Mass at a nearby parish that doesn’t, although it seems to be an American thing.

The touch of peace upsets me more, because in our parish the priest actually leaves the altar to shake peoples hands, same as the Eucharistic ministers, and that is forbidden.

If this doesn’t go on in his parish, he should be thankful of that. I think it depends on the custom of the diocese whether or not people hold hands during the Our Father.

And another caution: during flu season this is not the best thing to be doing as well as shaking hands during the Sign of Peace. At one time during this winter our diocese wasn’ t permitted to to this because of the HIN1 flu.
 
BettyM said:
My question is: If you do not want to hold hands during the Our Father and someone is holding their hand out and almost insisting what would you do? What should you do?

I should say also that at this parish very few people do this.
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If I’m alert enough to see that they are offering their hand out to me, and waiting, I can be kind enough to smile at them and slightly shake my head.
**
The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control.
*
“Love is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable.”***
1 Corinthians 13:5
 
adrift said:
Shame on you for your misguided judgement. You assume much about his outlook. What makes you able to judge that he does not see the good in the men that he guards. The prisoners were going to kill another guard but they had to go past him, which meant they had to kill him too. They admired him because of his fair treatment and just couldnt bring themsleves to harm him. You misunderstood that it was only his opinion. There was a book given to those in training to guard about the cons that prisoners use. I think you are naive
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I have to agree. There are many prisoners who use the RCIA program to help them get early probation, many go in witht that intention, it is the hope that with the RCIA training they change their mentality. I am not saying that they all go in with that intention, but a lot of them do especially those who have a chance of getting early parole.
 
MarkThompson said:
You would think so, right? Some people see it as a grave violation of age-old Church dogma . . . or something.
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there have been several threads on this topic and i don’t think the issue is with what family members do, but what we feel is being imposed on all of us as a new thing.

peace.
 
jen_fla said:
there have been several threads on this topic and i don’t think the issue is with what family members do, but what we feel is being imposed on all of us as a new thing.

peace.
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What I find irritating is when you don’t join in they reach right in front of you to join hands. Gotta keep that chain unbroken.
At the *For thine is the kingdom …*part, they raise their hands only inches in front of your face.
Most folks just suck it up and join in, not realizing that this ritual is illicit.
 
roadsend said:
What I find irritating is when you don’t join in they reach right in front of you to join hands. Gotta keep that chain unbroken.
At the *For thine is the kingdom …*part, they raise their hands only inches in front of your face.
Most folks just suck it up and join in, not realizing that this ritual is illicit.
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I’m glad that our N.O./OF parish is quite conservative! 🙂
There are some things that drive me up the wall (such as applause) but there is no hand holding and only minimal disruption during the sign of peace.
 
roadsend said:
What I find irritating is when you don’t join in they reach right in front of you to join hands. Gotta keep that chain unbroken.
At the *For thine is the kingdom …*part, they raise their hands only inches in front of your face.
Most folks just suck it up and join in, not realizing that this ritual is illicit.
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For another view
“There’s no prohibition on the holding of hands during the singing of the Our Father during the Mass,” Fr. Anscar Chupungco, executive secretary of the Commission on Liturgy
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Full artical:
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_8072/is_20051007/ai_n45925190/

Peace,
FAB
 
The_Reginator said:
I’m glad that our N.O./OF parish is quite conservative! 🙂
There are some things that drive me up the wall (such as applause) but there is no hand holding and only minimal disruption during the sign of peace.
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I miss my home parish in NJ - extremely conservative NO parish. No hand-holding or mimicry of the priest during the Lord’s Prayer.

Our parish out here has all too much of that going on. It’s pretentious, distracting, un-called for, and unsupported by Catholic tradition as a widespread and efficacious practice. I find hand-holding annoying as it sends the message that the faith is about more about us than it is supposed to be, and less about God than it had better be. I stand with my hands folded at chest-level, like I did when I was an acolyte back home, and keep my eyes forward and my heart on the Lord. We don’t sit next to anyone who reaches for our hands but I will simply ignore them if they try and take mine. I strongly discourage this practice to my wife (who is in RCIA and has no problem with traditional Catholic practices) and I will strongly discourage it to my son when he’s old enough to start learning these things.
 
My wife brought up a good point. You never see the alter boys doing it or mimicking the priest, especially when they are kneeling before the alter. If it was “allowed” then how come those who are assisting the priest aren’t doing it?
 
roadsend said:
What I find irritating is when you don’t join in they reach right in front of you to join hands. Gotta keep that chain unbroken.
At the *For thine is the kingdom …*part, they raise their hands only inches in front of your face.
Most folks just suck it up and join in, not realizing that this ritual is illicit.
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i agree.

and to FAB, again if a family wants to do this then fine, but the problem is that somehow the erroneous message has gotten across that this is now what is expected of all of us. it’s a childish imposition and i think it removes much dignity from the Mass.

personally, i can not wait to attend a Latin Mass.

peace.
 
Well, I don’t like the handholding part during the Our Father, mostly because of during the part where we say, “for thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory,” hands are lifted high. It almost seems like that is the high point of what is going on during the liturgy of the Eucharist but I believe what is meant to be the high point is when the priest lifts up the body of Christ and says, “This is the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.”
I think that should be the point where we should be lifting our eyes, lifting our eyes to behold Him. Sometimes a priest will even say, “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.” That is what I want to raise my eyes to see.

I also noticed the last couple of times I was at Mass that the priest doesn’t raise his hands high in the air during, “for thine is the kingdom…” and I guess I thought that was the point of holding your hands up was to be imitating the priest.

But, after reading all these posts it is apparent there are people who want to hold hands during the Our Father and even though I wish it would go away, I ask that we each be considerate of each other.

It is what is in our hearts at the moment that matters and none of us can see what is going on inside each others hearts during prayer.
 
roadsend said:
Interesting, but the opinion of a Filipino liturgist does not trump Rome.
The practice remains unapproved by the folks who actually count.
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The liturgist is a priest, and since the church is world wide being Filipinio makes no difference. By the way, the opinions against the practice have also been made by priest who are liturgist.
The point is that since this practice is considered as a local custom, it falls upon local dioceses, i.e bishop, to decide how to address it, not Rome and is not illicit, a term primary used when dealing with the effect on a sacrament.

Peace,
FAB
 
benedictgal said:
Nice try, FAB, but, that is for the Phillipines. The statement does not have universal authority.
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I am not sure it even has any authority in the Philipines.
The article merely says that “Chupungco explained that the bishops have issued no directive that bans the practice among priests and laypeople during the celebration of the Mass.”
It does not say that they approved it, not to mention the required approval of any such decision by Rome.
 
FAB said:
The liturgist is a priest, and since the church is world wide being Filipinio makes no difference. By the way, the opinions against the practice have also been made by priest who are liturgist.
The point is that since this practice is considered as a local custom, it falls upon local dioceses, i.e bishop, to decide how to address it, not Rome and is not illicit, a term primary used when dealing with the effect on a sacrament.

Peace,
FAB
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You follow your liturgist or whomever you please.
I will follow Rome.

This ritual of hand holding is not in the rubrics. It is not approved by Rome. It is disruptive and often extremely rude. It is every bit as illicit as snake handling or rolling in the aisles.
I will not participate in this ritual in any way, shape, or form and I will speak out against it whenever the subject is raised.
 
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