Holy Cow!

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Marfran

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Is it worse to butcher a dog than it is to butcher a cow, or to kill a bee or take it’s honey?
 
pnewton said:
Swallowing a camel is worse than failing to strain the gnat. That one I have down.
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I have to totally agree with you!!!
pnewton said:
Is it worse to butcher and eat a dog than it is a cow?
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They are both mammals and capable of experiencing the same degree of pain & suffering, the only difference between the two is human attitude toward them, including ***differing cultural ***attitudes. I would have thought that this thread would have brought more “dog lovers” to the rescue of the abused dogs in the video tiny.cc/wgdQJ , but by making the connection to the treatment of the dogs, juxtaposed with the treatment of Western agri-animals–I think that wiff of ethical dilemna has kept the “man’s best friend, dog lovers” from virtually rescuing those dogs.

I will say it though–the dog and the cow are equal it terms of abuse/pain/suffering. If we can butcher and eat cows, then we should equally butcher and eat dogs. If we find that butchering and eating dogs to be abhorrent, we should also find the butchering and eating of cows to be the same.
pnewton said:
Is it worse to be kill a fish than an insect, a bird than a fish or a mammal than a bird? Is it worse running over a racoon than swatting a mosquito?
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I was actually thinking of starting another thread with a similar train of thought. I have been an omnivore, then a lacto-ovo vegetarian–and now for about a year a vegan. The really hard thing about vegan is that a lot of the food manufacturers put animal products and by-products unnecessarily into food that would otherwise be ***vegan ***. Like for example, baked beans. You can buy a can that is “vegetarian,” but a lot of baked beans have animal fat and bacon in them.

Honey is not vegan. I have found several products–like baked goods–that would be vegan except for that one ingredient honey. I personally must learn more about how honey is procured. It would seem that taking honey from a bee is less horrific/invasive/abusive than taking milk from a cow–but I do not know all the particulars in the process. I have heard that the bees are not injured–I have also heard that they are–and that many are killed in the process. Again, it is one area that I am not familiar with, and do need to learn about.

But why would we even want to take honey from a bee??? There is no real necessity for it. There are so many alternatives. So many ***plant ***alternatives. Even if we were to agree that bees have a lesser capacity for suffering than cows, why would we take their honey when we just don’t need to??? Because we like how it tastes???
 
Marfran said:
They are both mammals and capable of experiencing the same degree of pain & suffering, the only difference between the two is human attitude toward them, including ***differing cultural ***attitudes.
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That is how I see it. When I swat a fly, it is instant annihilation. When we catch a fish, it is less than killing the chicken, which in turn is less suffering than butchering a lamb or cow. Since there is a cultural attiutude to consider, while the suffering might be the same for killing a cow or dog, the latter might damage us more than the former, when suffering is involved. After all, animal cruelty is also about not damaging our own soul and about not being an offense to others. This latter point is brought home when we interact with friends. If I invited Mary Francis to dinner, I might provide her with a vegetarian alternative to my steak. True charity however would include me not even serving anything offensive (like meat, animal products or brussel sprouts). She might have a good attitude and not be offended, but why would I want to rely on another’s good will when I should take the initiative in charity.
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Dogs are not eaten in European tradition, that’s for sure.

Pigs are.

How many people watched BABE and its sequel while munching a ham sandwich?

BTW–have you ever heard of the organization Stop The Annihilation of Real Vegetable Entities–acronym STARVE?

It’s to plants what PETA is to animals.

If we’re not supposed to eat animals, how come they’re made out of meat?
 
pnewton said:
That is how I see it. When I swat a fly, it is instant annihilation. When we catch a fish, it is less than killing the chicken, which in turn is less suffering than butchering a lamb or cow. Since there is a cultural attiutude to consider, while the suffering might be the same for killing a cow or dog, the latter might damage us more than the former, when suffering is involved. After all, animal cruelty is also about not damaging our own soul and about not being an offense to others. This latter point is brought home when we interact with friends. If I invited Mary Francis to dinner, I might provide her with a vegetarian alternative to my steak. True charity however would include me not even serving anything offensive (like meat, animal products or brussel sprouts). She might have a good attitude and not be offended, but why would I want to rely on another’s good will when I should take the initiative in charity.
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Instant death is better than a slow death I suppose, if anything has to die. I think some like mosquitos are just put on this earth to torment us. I am terrified and hate cockroaches but still cant bear to see them wrigggling for ages before they die. If you were not so charitable and did not provide her with a vegetarian/vegan alternative, MF would remain hungry.🙂
 
Cluny said:
If we’re not supposed to eat animals, how come they’re made out of meat?
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:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
May I use this?!?! This is perhaps one of the funniest things that I’ve read in a looong time. Thank you for the laughter!
 
Jesus Christ, the Son of Almighty God, ate fish. It is probable that He ate lamb, too. Maybe even beef. Those animals He ate were slaughtered, and likely in more brutal ways than we use now. Was Christ being cruel by partaking of such food?

Peace,
Dante
 
Cluny said:
How many people watched BABE and its sequel while munching a ham sandwich?
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raises hand

LOL.

I was raised on a farm, and I saw how animals are born, raised and slaughtered. I hardly bat an eye at any of it anymore, but I also recognise honest cruelty and abuse when it exists. So does consumers. Meat that was slaughtered unhumaely, or raised poorly tastes terrible and can even make one sick.

And no, I don’t think eating a dog is worse than eating a cow. It all matters on how it afftects the person, and the attachment to the animal. The harm when killing an animal is for the person doing it, or the people attached to the animal. People get just as attached to pigs and cows as some people do to dogs. Killing an animal that someone loves is a sin because you are hurting your brother. Killing an animal that YOU are attached to or have formed a relationship is damaging to yourself because of the way we operate. Basically, there is no reason at all to kill and eat dogs, cats, and gerbils in the United States. If there were real need to (I’m thinking, like, zombie apocalypse here or something) then it would not be morally wrong.
 
Cluny said:
How many people watched BABE and its sequel while munching a ham sandwich?
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Did you know that the actor in that movie, the older guy (I don’t remember his name, but I can look it up) became a vegetarian after making that movie!!! This is true–I’m not making this up.
 
Cluny said:
If we’re not supposed to eat animals, how come they’re made out of meat?
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Tietjen said:
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
May I use this?!?! This is perhaps one of the funniest things that I’ve read in a looong time. Thank you for the laughter!
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OK–Cluny, what are you trying to say??? Humans are made out of meat too, so should we be eating each other???
 
pnewton said:
If I invited Mary Francis to dinner, I might provide her with a vegetarian alternative to my steak. True charity however would include me not even serving anything offensive (like meat, animal products or brussel sprouts). She might have a good attitude and not be offended, but why would I want to rely on another’s good will when I should take the initiative in charity.
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So what are we having for dinner???
 
Thanks for the in-depth info. Now I don’t have to look it up! Ok–now we can go back to the topic–NO, the topic is not BABE, or the actor who played BABE…
 
I just started reading the book ***Why Animal Suffering Matters: Philosophy, Theology, and Practical Ethics ***by Andrew Linzey. bit.ly/2lqFZg So going back to the OP, should we consider differences in which animals we choose to make suffer for our food??? Is there a hierarchy of species??? What about insects, like bees??? We don’t ***need ***their honey–should we take it???
 
pnewton said:
Tonight, its shrimp and fish, animals with lesser nervous systems.
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I meant what’s for dinner the night that you are having ***me ***over, silly!!!

BTW: I still make shrimp for my husband, don’t tell the vegan police. But he does like my meatless meals, and any meal made with hamburger can easily be made with faux hamburger–and you pretty much can’t tell the difference. And with faux hamburger you don’t have to worry about E-coli.
 
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