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myfavoritmartin
Guest
Take a stab!
How bout your churches interpretation?
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How bout your churches interpretation?
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
I’ve not heard what you guys thought Christ was preaching about in Matt 23:I’d say this thread has pretty much run its course, my Catholic brethren and sisteren
???
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clmowry
Guest
That’s because you don’t bother to read the responses.
I’ll try and keep it simple.
In Chapters 22-23 the Pharisees again test Jesus and He points out their hypocrisies.
It is an admonition against self aggrandizing behavior and hypocrisy.
It is not a prohibition of the use of the words “rabbi” and “father”.
Chuck
I’ll try and keep it simple.
In Chapters 22-23 the Pharisees again test Jesus and He points out their hypocrisies.
It is an admonition against self aggrandizing behavior and hypocrisy.
It is not a prohibition of the use of the words “rabbi” and “father”.
Chuck
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JoeyWarren
Guest
Most critical scholars agree on the dating of the majority of the New Testament, except for the epistles and books that they consider to be pseudepigraphical (i.e., those thought not to be written by their traditional authors).
For the Gospels they tend to date Mark no earlier than 65 and no later than 75.
Matthew is dated between 70 and 85.
Luke is usually placed within 80 to 95.
John is dated between 90 to 110.
The earliest of the books of the New Testament was First Thessalonians, an epistle of Paul, written probably in 51, or possibly Galatians in 49 according to one of two theories of its writing.
Of the pseudepigraphical epistles, Christian scholars tend to place them somewhere between 70 and 150, with Second Peter usually being the latest.
Paul was martyred either 67 or 68.
There is a remote chance that Paul could have quote from Mark if Mark was written in 65 AD.
For the Gospels they tend to date Mark no earlier than 65 and no later than 75.
Matthew is dated between 70 and 85.
Luke is usually placed within 80 to 95.
John is dated between 90 to 110.
The earliest of the books of the New Testament was First Thessalonians, an epistle of Paul, written probably in 51, or possibly Galatians in 49 according to one of two theories of its writing.
Of the pseudepigraphical epistles, Christian scholars tend to place them somewhere between 70 and 150, with Second Peter usually being the latest.
Paul was martyred either 67 or 68.
There is a remote chance that Paul could have quote from Mark if Mark was written in 65 AD.
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Cardinalsong
Guest
Sorry if this is OT but needs to be addressed…
Why do you loathe the Catholic Church so much? I am guessing (and only guessing so please don’t read any deeper) you have been hurt badly by someone in the church or perhaps a family member, friend or loved one? If you have then I am sorry you hurt so much.
However…
That does not give you license to take it out on all the fine folks out here that are willing to take the bait and answer your questions, just in case you are honestly searching. I have yet to see a charitible post or reply from you. Why are you here? If you truly are searching and willing to learn then why, I hate to say it, the vindictive tone?
Even if you disagree entirely with what the Catholic Church teaches at least be kind and charitible about it. Otherwise whenever someone sees anything from you they are immediately going to go on the defensive based on all the prior posts from you.
I hope you consider what I am saying because most of us are not here to argue but to learn and are more than happy to help (including me).
God Bless you on you journey
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
It’s hilarious, I get labeled vindictive and such, yet it is you guys with the non-stop one line jabs…
P-m-K
Such as what self aggrandizing and hypocritical behavior???
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
This caused me to back throught the last 25 posts I have made, I have no idea what you are talking about!
I’d like you to look at what your brethren here have been slinging at me that is the height of CHARITY…
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guanophore
Guest
Excellent MfM! You can see in the writings of Paul, which preceeded the writing of the gospels, the language that was passed on through the Sacred Oral Tradition. Some of that tradition is now written in the gospels in what is called by the early fathers the “memoirs of the Apostles”. the part of the Sacred Tradition that was not written still lives in the Catholic Church, preseverd through that same Apostolic Succession.
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guanophore
Guest
He who knows what is right to do in his own heart sins if he fails to do it, so it is better for you, since you are weak in faith, not to use these terms.
That has been explained to you repeatedly, so it will best behoove you to go back and review the thread. Christ wanted no divisions, just as Paul told them, don’t go around saying “I belong to Apollos, or I belong to Paul”. Paul was relieved he did not baptize very many,s o that factions would not develop. Each of the primary theological schools had a “father”. Jesus wanted only God to be the theological “head”. In calling our elders “father”, we do not replace God with them, but only honor them to the extent that they take part in the headship of Christ.
You are right, it is better for you to err on the side of caution. If you are unable to give “double honor” to the teachers and elders, then you should not. It will not keep you out of heaven.
That is because YOU WERENT" THERE!!! However, those that WERE there, the Apostles and their successors, have used this custom continuously. That is why it is preserved this way in the Roman and Orthodox churches, because we trace our lineage back to the Apostolic times.
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djrakowski
Guest
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clmowry
Guest
I’d laugh too if it wasn’t so sad.
Exhaulting themselves at the expense of others.
But it pretty much doesn’t matter what I “think” it says cause your gonna tell me what it says any way. Right?
Chuck
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
The moment paul penned those letters they where scripture, like when James was writing his own book and called it scripture.
He says, “Do you think the scripture speak to no purpose” in James 4:5. He calls his own book James, scripture.
Jude quotes Peter as scripture.
Peter quotes Paul as scripture.
And John quotes himself as scripture.
You guys want people to believe after knowing the GOSPEL paul would tell Timothy that the OT will make you wise unto salvation???
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guanophore
Guest
There are none so deaf as those who do not wish to hear.
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
What in the world are you getting at??
Are you suggesting my friend that I am weak in my faith?
What terms?
This quote of yours makes no sense at all…
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
I am trying to get this strait, instead of Jesus just saying I want unity, HE spoke in code instead using the term “call no man Father”There are none so deaf as those who do not wish to hear.
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
Like expecting others to hold them up spiritually with vain titles and such?
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djrakowski
Guest
I’d say this is a good response, but would also add this: that one ought not call someone on earth Father in the sense that is intended to replace the fatherhood of God, rather than complement it.
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hosemonkey
Guest
It is quite obvious that you are not here to inquire or learn, but only to be contentious. You are like the various moslems who infest these forums peddling the same tiresome protestations, trying to explain nonsense and justify heresy. I seriously doubt that your faulty protestant point of view is going to have any impact on these Catholics who have been trying so hard to enlighten you, save to be annoyed at having to cover the ground that we have covered so many times before. Peace.
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guanophore
Guest
That you should do as your conscience dictates. You said you had a firm conviction about it, so I am saying you should follow it. If it scandalizes you to give 'double honor" to the teacher or elder, then refrain.
It was more than a suggestion. You are telling your brothers and sisters that they are wrong in holding to the Apostolic Traditions as they have been handed down to us.
James 4:17
17 Whoever knows what is right to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin."
If you believe it is right for you to refrain from calling the pastors and teachers “father” or for the servant of all the bishops “holy father” then you should not call them by those titles. On the other hand, if we feel that it is right for us to honor them so, then it would be a sin for us not to do so:
1 Tim 5:17-18
17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching;"
2 Cor 9:6-7
7 Each one must do as he has made up his mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion,"
All I am asking is that you refrain from reviling us because we see things differently. Do what you believe is right for you, and leave the rest to God.
He did both, but everyone knew exactly what He was talking about. This is why, even when he used parables, when they were directed at the scribes and pharisees they got so angry.I am trying to get this strait, instead of Jesus just saying I want unity, HE spoke in code instead using the term “call no man Father”
Matt 21:45
45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them."
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clmowry
Guest
Like expecting others to put them on a spiritual pedestal and putting themselves and their legalistic intepretations of scripture above the spirit of the law.
An all too common fault.
Chuck
An all too common fault.
Chuck
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