Holy water isn't holy water unless blessed by a traditional priest?!

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From the Catholic Encyclopedia under ‘sacramentals’–

newadvent.org/cathen/13292d.htm
Besides the efficacy which the sacramentals possess in common with other good works they have a special efficacy of their own. If their whole value proceeded from the opus operantis, all external good works could be called sacramentals.
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**The special virtue recognized by the Church and experienced by Christians in the sacramentals should consist in the official prayers whereby we implore God to pour forth special graces **on those who make use of the sacramentals. These prayers move God to give graces which He would not otherwise give, and when not infallibly acceded to it is for reasons known to His Wisdom. God is aware of the measure in which He should bestow His gifts. All the sacramentals have not the same effect; this depends on the prayer of the Church which does not make use of the same urgency nor have recourse to the same Divine sources of merit.
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Some sacramentals derive no special efficacy from the prayer of the Church; such are those which are employed in worship, without a blessing, or even with a blessing which does not specify any particular fruit. This is the case with the blessing of vessels meant to contain the holy oils: “Give ear to our prayers, most merciful Father, and deign to bless and sanctify these purified vessels prepared for the use of the sacred ministry of Thy Church”.
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On the other hand, some sacramentals, among them one of those most frequently used, holy water, are the object of a benediction which details their particular effects.
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Water, blessed by the new rite is made holy water.

This holy water has the particular effects that the benediction details.

If the effect of exorcism is missing in the blessing, why assume it’s there?
 
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This holy water has the particular effects that the benediction details.**

**My own experience is that God is more generous with blessings of sacramentals (and their use in faith) than we happen to ask when blessing them.

All holy water has the same effects, as long as it is blessed with a form approved by the Church. Remember, God is NOT a legalist.**
 
bpbasilphx said:
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Remember, God is NOT a legalist.
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Absolutely true.

It is also absolutely true that correct words and formulas matter.

Here’s a great example. Gender neutral mistranslations have been used by loving, misguided priests for years in the sacrament of baptism. They claim that it’s **pure legalism **to assert that a baptism is invalid if you use the formula “creator, redeemer, and sanctifier” instead of the correct formula"Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." After all, the Father is the Creator, the Son is the Redeemer, and the Holy Spirit is the Sanctifier. These priests claim that God is the same, no matter what **words **you use.

Here’s the Vatican’s decision:
VATICAN CITY (CNS) - A baptism administered “in the name of the Creator, and of the Redeemer and of the Sanctifier” is not a baptism at all, said the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
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If either **formula **-- recently initiated in North America to avoid referring to the Trinity with masculine names – was used, the person is not yet formally a Christian and any subsequent sacraments the person received also are invalid, said Cardinal Urbano Navarrete in a commentary commissioned by the doctrinal congregation.
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“Persons who were baptized or will be baptized in the future with the **formulas **in question in reality are not baptized,” the cardinal wrote.
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Words matter. Formula matters. They’re use and abuse is NOT legalism.
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
Once again, all together, say after me.

If the water is blessed by as deacon, priest or bishop, it it holy water.
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Deacon Ed, this almost sounds a little patronizing. Blessing does admit of variation of degree.There is a difference between when I sneeze and a kindly person says God Bless You and Pope Benedict XVI gives me an Apostolic Blessing. The words and prayers do matter. One cannot help but wonder whether weaker blessing prayers carry less weight than more thorough blessing prayers.
 
scriabin said:
Absolutely true.

It is also absolutely true that correct words and formulas matter.

Here’s a great example. Gender neutral mistranslations have been used by loving, misguided priests for years in the sacrament of baptism. They claim that it’s **pure legalism **to assert that a baptism is invalid if you use the formula “creator, redeemer, and sanctifier” instead of the correct formula"Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." After all, the Father is the Creator, the Son is the Redeemer, and the Holy Spirit is the Sanctifier. These priests claim that God is the same, no matter what **words **you use.

Here’s the Vatican’s decision:

Words matter. Formula matters. They’re use and abuse is NOT legalism.
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They are correct. God is the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow. However, changing the words of the baptismal formula to Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier, does not a baptism make.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
They are correct. God is the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow. However, changing the words of the baptismal formula to Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier, does not a baptism make.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
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So, this being the case, does not the change in the wording of the blessing of water also cause a change in the quality of the holy water?

Nobody has responded to my question in post #39 - why should someone not prefer to use holy water that has been blessed by an FSSP priest or an exorcist (who typically use the older formula) rather than holy water that has been blessed with the new formula, if they want to use it to prevent the occurrence of demons in a particular space, or if they want to assist a ghost to complete his journey into the after-life?
 
We arre speaking here of the difference between a sacrament and a sacramental. The wording for a sacrament are the form. A blessing can come in many different ways. I would have to say, at this point unless shsown something to the contrary, that Blessed Holy Water is Blessed Holy Water. We are not dealing with dogma or form of sacrament, but words, which the Holy See has full divine authority to change as a matter of discipline. The baptismal formula is scriptural as reflected in Matthew 28:19
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
From the Catholic Encyclopedia under “holy water”–

newadvent.org/cathen/07432a.htm
The Pontifical of Scrapion of Thumis, a fourth-century bishop, and likewise the “testamentum Domini”, a Syriac composition dating from the fifth to the sixth century, contain a blessing of oil and water during Mass
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The **formula **in Scrapion’s Pontifical is as follows:
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**"We bless these creatures in the Name of Jesus Christ, Thy only Son; we invoke upon this water and this oil **the Name of Him Who suffered, Who was crucified, Who arose from the dead, and Who sits at the right of the Uncreated.
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**“Grant unto these creatures the power to heal; may all fevers, every evil spirit, and all maladies be put to flight **by him who either drinks these beverages or is anointed with them, and may they be a remedy in the Name of Jesus Christ, Thy only Son.”
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For over a thousand years holy water has been blessed with an exorcism. Our Catholic culture has been saturated with stories of saints using and recommending the use by the laity of holy water—precisely for these abilities of exorcism.

Older cradle catholics have grown up hearing and believing these stories from tradition. From their earliest childhood they have associated holy water with the powers of exorcism. It was a knee-jerk reaction–when someone said “holy water” they naturally, rightfully, intrinsically associated exorcism with this term.

But now things have changed. The new rites, while validly blessing the water as “holy water,” do not have the powers of exorcism invoked at the blessing. Yes, yes, yes. It is indeed holy water. Yes, yes, yes, we know it is blessed holy water.

Our knee-jerk reaction as Catholics is to still associate the “blessed holy water” with the exorcism powers, even though the Church does not invoke these powers.

After 1500 years the blessing of holy water does not have an exorcism attached to it. Hard to imagine, but true.

I do not doubt the authority of the Church in blessing holy water with the powers of exorcism. I believe precisely because of **the authority of the Church has the power and authority to imbue objects with the power of exorcism. **

The Church has the power and authority to do it, or to not do it.
 
I didn’t think I had a dog in this fight, but on reflection, I recalled that when my daughter recently moved into an apartment after college graduation, the deacon who blessed her apartment had a copy of the old Roman Ritual, and performed the whole exorcism of salt / blessing of salt / exorcism of water / blessing of water / co-mingling prayers, and we found a lot of comfort in those prayers of protection. I guess I don’t think the resulting water was any “more blessed” than water via the newer blessing, but the prayers and invocations seemed a lot more focused on the issue of protection and warding off of evil, than the seemingly bland and very un-focused words in the BOB.
 
So, this being the case, does not the change in the wording of the blessing of water also cause a change in the quality of the holy water?

No, it doesn’t.

Nobody has responded to my question in post #39 - why should someone not prefer to use holy water that has been blessed by an FSSP priest or an exorcist (who typically use the older formula) rather than holy water that has been blessed with the new formula, if they want to use it to prevent the occurrence of demons in a particular space, or if they want to assist a ghost to complete his journey into the after-life?

**Holy water is holy water, regardless of WHAT validly ordained priest blesses it.

To say that ghosts need the assistance of strong juju holy water to go to the afterlife is to say that the deceased’s guardian angel failed in his duty.

Consider your question responded to.**
 
bpbasilphx said:
So, this being the case, does not the change in the wording of the blessing of water also cause a change in the quality of the holy water?

No, it doesn’t.
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Perhaps you can explain this too-brief response further? It appears the words of the prayer do not have a direct correlation to the result of the prayer?
 
bpbasilphx said:
So, this being the case, does not the change in the wording of the blessing of water also cause a change in the quality of the holy water?

No, it doesn’t.

Nobody has responded to my question in post #39 - why should someone not prefer to use holy water that has been blessed by an FSSP priest or an exorcist (who typically use the older formula) rather than holy water that has been blessed with the new formula, if they want to use it to prevent the occurrence of demons in a particular space, or if they want to assist a ghost to complete his journey into the after-life?

**Holy water is holy water, regardless of WHAT validly ordained priest blesses it.

To say that ghosts need the assistance of strong juju holy water to go to the afterlife is to say that the deceased’s guardian angel failed in his duty.

Consider your question responded to.**
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I am asking because my father was being haunted by either a ghost or a demon at his home. (There are practitioners of Wicca in the neighborhood.)

I got holy water from the local Cathedral to bless the house with, thinking it was blessed with the exorcism prayers.

If it was not blessed with the exorcism prayers, then was I just getting the house wet?

He left the house shortly afterwards and sold it to a writer. If the demons or ghosts are still there, can she ask for her money back?
 
jmcrae said:
I am asking because my father was being haunted by either a ghost or a demon at his home. (There are practitioners of Wicca in the neighborhood.)

I got holy water from the local Cathedral to bless the house with, thinking it was blessed with the exorcism prayers.

If it was not blessed with the exorcism prayers, then was I just getting the house wet?

He left the house shortly afterwards and sold it to a writer. If the demons or ghosts are still there, can she ask for her money back?
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Have a priest or deacon bless the house.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
**If it was not blessed with the exorcism prayers, then was I just getting the house wet? **

**No. You were doing what was in your spiritual authority to bless the house. Holy water is holy water, regardless of what approved forms are used to bless it.

Should any creepy phenomena continue, a priest should be called to bless the house.**
 
jmcrae said:
If it was not blessed with the exorcism prayers, then was I just getting the house wet?
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IMO, I think that God, through your faith and through his generousity, might allow the holy water to have the effect you desired on the house, so you are by no means “just getting the house wet”. But I think in this situation, if no priest was available to bless the house, I would prefer to use water blessed with the traditional formula.
 
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