Holy water isn't holy water unless blessed by a traditional priest?!

[bpbasilphx]

But I think in this situation, if no priest was available to bless the house, I would prefer to use water blessed with the traditional formula.

You don’t actually think that the old form has more efficacy or juju than a new form, do you?

 

[Dauphin]

But I think in this situation, if no priest was available to bless the house, I would prefer to use water blessed with the traditional formula.

You don’t actually think that the old form has more efficacy or juju than a new form, do you?

Does holy water that hasn’t been exorcised have the same power as holy water that has been exorcised?

Is exorcism essentially powerless? Would simply offering a posessed person a blessing be of equal value? If you don’t think so, are you just some silly traditionalist who thinks certain words have more “juju” than others?

 

[FickleFreckled]

I have a question, based on some of the responses in this thread. Let me see if I’m understanding this correctly. If I were to use Holy Water #1 (no exorcism wording during blessing) as opposed to Holy Water #2 (exorcism wording included in blessing) in my prayer to rid my home of anything evil, are you saying that God would not honor my prayer on a technicality?

 

[Dauphin]

I have a question, based on some of the responses in this thread. Let me see if I’m understanding this correctly. If I were to use Holy Water #1 (no exorcism wording during blessing) as opposed to Holy Water #2 (exorcism wording included in blessing) in my prayer to rid my home of anything evil, are you saying that God would not honor my prayer on a technicality?

I don’t think it’s a technicality. If the holy water isn’t exorcised by a priest, it cannot drive out demons.

 

[scylla]

Demons obey God, if there is no request for them to obey, then will they obey? The reason an exorcism works is because we ask God to drive them out. In the same way, if we do not ask God to drive them out will they be exorcised?

Is it a technicality to not mention the Father Son and Holy Spirit during a baptism? God will honor our actions with a response and our inaction with a different response.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[FickleFreckled]

So it’s sounds like you’re saying God’s love is limited by a specific wording.

 

[Dauphin]

So it’s sounds like you’re saying God’s love is limited by a specific wording.

Yes. I’m also saying that God hates you, and that’s why the Holy Water doesn’t drive out demons.

I’m tired of misrepresentation and hyperbole on these forums, but I suppose it’ll never end.

 

[scylla]

So it’s sounds like you’re saying God’s love is limited by a specific wording.

God loves us and respects our wishes, even to the point of allowing us to reject Him. He doesn’t force us to do anything.

In the same way God respects our desire and will give us what we want when we ask for it, but what about when we do not ask for it, He respects that also.

If I do not ask God to drive out a demon will the demon be driven out? Or do we just say to ourselves, I don’t need to ask God for what I need since He loves me, does that make sense?

God Bless
Scylla

 

[FickleFreckled]

No, no, you misunderstood what I was asking or maybe I wasn’t clear. Here’s the scenario: In good faith, I use regular blessed holy water, blessed by my friend Father Mike in his usual quick fashion, to pray the house exorcism prayers. I am clearly asking God for my home to be cleansed of any evil influence or presence. My belief is that God would
answer that prayer regardless of the type of blessing that was given to the holy water. If that’s the case, what difference does it make what kind of blessing the holy water has been blessed with?

This isn’t hyperbole or misrepresentation; I’m asking you a legitimate question.

 

[agnostic]

In what sense does splashing a bit of water over your house drive out demons Isn’t this just like putting a dragon in the north east corner of your house for prosperity and a frog by your door for financial gain
It’s superstitious hocus-pocus, non?

 

[Dauphin]

In what sense does splashing a bit of water over your house drive out demons Isn’t this just like putting a dragon in the north east corner of your house for prosperity and a frog by your door for financial gain
It’s superstitious hocus-pocus, non?

Go to the apologetics for that sort of thing. Ask why belief in demons isn’t superstitious.

 

[agnostic]

Go to the apologetics for that sort of thing. Ask why belief in demons isn’t superstitious.

Ok

 

[Dauphin]

No, no, you misunderstood what I was asking or maybe I wasn’t clear. Here’s the scenario: In good faith, I use regular blessed holy water, blessed by my friend Father Mike in his usual quick fashion, to pray the house exorcism prayers. I am clearly asking God for my home to be cleansed of any evil influence or presence. My belief is that God would
answer that prayer regardless of the type of blessing that was given to the holy water. If that’s the case, what difference does it make what kind of blessing the holy water has been blessed with?

This isn’t hyperbole or misrepresentation; I’m asking you a legitimate question.

It’s entirely possible that God will fulfill the request in your prayer. However, the subject at hand is if unexorcised holy water actually, on its own, has the power to drive out demons, and I cannot see how it does.

 

[agnostic]

If I’m reading this thread correctly, catholic’s believe that ‘‘holy’’ water has the power to drive demons out of your home, but ‘‘blessed’’ water does not. Is that correct? Now leaving aside why there might be demons in your house in the first place, does this mean that God, knowing there is a demon in your house, is perfectly happy to leave it there, because, the water you are blessing your house with is ‘‘blessed’’, not ‘‘holy’’, so he’ll just ignore you?

 

[FickleFreckled]

There is an incredible amount of arrogance and hatefulness on these forums from a lot of “good” Catholics.

 

[Dauphin]

If I’m reading this thread correctly, catholic’s believe that ‘‘holy’’ water has the power to drive demons out of your home, but ‘‘blessed’’ water does not. Is that correct? Now leaving aside why there might be demons in your house in the first place, does this mean that God, knowing there is a demon in your house, is perfectly happy to leave it there, because, the water you are blessing your house with is ‘‘blessed’’, not ‘‘holy’’, so he’ll just ignore you?

Holy Water is simply water which has been blessed by a priest, which Catholic believe confers the effects of the prayer on anything it touches. In a blessing, the prayer becomes associated with the matter of the sacramental, which in this case is water.

The argument is about whether holy water which has not been blessed according to the traditional formula carries with it the same effect as holy water blessed according to the new formula. The old formula includes a prayer of exorcism:

“I exorcise thee in the name of God the Father almighty, and in the name of Jesus Christ His Son, our Lord, and in the power of the Holy Ghost, that you may be able to put to flight all the power of the enemy, and be able to root out and supplant that enemy and his apostate angels; through the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will come to judge the living and the dead and the world by fire.”

The question is: does holy water exorcise if it does not carry with it a prayer of exorcism? My answer is “no”.

 

[agnostic]

Holy Water is simply water which has been blessed by a priest, which Catholic believe confers the effects of the prayer on anything it touches. In a blessing, the prayer becomes associated with the matter of the sacramental, which in this case is water.

The argument is about whether holy water which has not been blessed according to the traditional formula carries with it the same effect as holy water blessed according to the new formula. The old formula includes a prayer of exorcism:

“I exorcise thee in the name of God the Father almighty, and in the name of Jesus Christ His Son, our Lord, and in the power of the Holy Ghost, that you may be able to put to flight all the power of the enemy, and be able to root out and supplant that enemy and his apostate angels; through the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will come to judge the living and the dead and the world by fire.”

The question is: does holy water exorcise if it does not carry with it a prayer of exorcism? My answer is “no”.

Ok I’m following this now - I’d be inclined to agree in that case too, but purely on the logic you described. But I would still struggle with an all knowing all seeing all loving god that just ignored the fact I had demons in the fruit bowl and the garage just because the priest got the formula wrong

 

[Dauphin]

Ok I’m following this now - I’d be inclined to agree in that case too, but purely on the logic you described. But I would still struggle with an all knowing all seeing all loving god that just ignored the fact I had demons in the fruit bowl and the garage just because the priest got the formula wrong

If you apply the Holy Water with the intent of driving out demons, God may fulfill to your request. However, in the technical matter of whether or not the Holy Water exorcises on its own, the answer is no - if it has not received a prayer of exorcism.

This is why some of us prefer the old formula, which adds a degree of certainty about the sacramental’s effect, especially considering that many may not even know precisely what Holy Water is or why they apply it.

 

[scylla]

Ok I’m following this now - I’d be inclined to agree in that case too, but purely on the logic you described. But I would still struggle with an all knowing all seeing all loving god that just ignored the fact I had demons in the fruit bowl and the garage just because the priest got the formula wrong

That would be a pretty crazy fruit bowl, if I had a fruit bowl with demons in it I would just throw it away.
With the garage that is a bit different, there are cases where spirits (demons) are located in a specific area and do cause problems for people.

An all knowing God can certainly remove the demons yet He interacts with us personally. If the Priest intentionally ignores or omits a prayer to ask for something from God, should God give it to him anyways, even if he didn’t want it?

The priest who doesn’t pray the prayer, does not want the action and God respects that.

Now this doesn’t rule out the possibility of God coming to the assistance of a person acting in faith and desiring a response from God even with water not blessed for a specific purpose.
I think Dauphin mentioned that possibility.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[agnostic]

Right - so - the priest leaves out the prayer, so god does not confer some specific power on the water - in this case the power to drive out demons, BUT I don’t know this and believe that the water ha the power to drive out demons, god sees this, knows I’ve been duped, and drives the demons out anyhow because I genuinely believed that the water was blessed properly in the first place.
So, in case one, water is blessed with old formula, and demons driven out - result.

In case two - I was duped but god has pity on me anyhow and demons driven out - result.

I’m lost again What’s the difference then if the outcome is the same?