'Homeless spikes' installed outside London flats

[George_Stegmeir]

The homeless have been with American Society from its earliest days. However, the homeless were controlled by various vagrancy laws until about 40 years ago. At that time, the Supreme Court of the US decided that everyone was entitled to a lawyer whether or not they could afford one. They mandated that, if necessary, lawyers would be paid from public funds. As a result lawyers became quite inventive in filing lawsuits on behalf of the homeless…to the point that in some areas, like New York City, the homeless have more “rights” than ordinary people who work for a living.
I live in the East Village of NYC which is a congregation point for the homeless in the city. Their arrogance and nastiness tries the charitable instincts of any Christian. Many, if not most of them are drug abusers. The local police are unable to do anything about them because the average patrolman is not allowed to make any kind of narcotic arrests. The reason for this is to lessen their chance of being bribed by the drug pushers who abound in every park.
However, there is a balance in that most of the homeless confine themselves to Tompkins Square Park in good weather. They stay “close to home” because several charitable groups bring them free food every day, and they know that they can be hurt if and when they trespass onto private property. The NYPD is not exactly gentle with them when they have to arrest them’
Like it or not, a good percentage of these people are indigent by choice. They can easily exist on the dole, so why work for a living? Unfortunately though, a large percentage of these people have mental problems, and outside of institutions have a difficult time taking care of themselves.

 

[Hopeful_Doubter]

On the one hand this seems dehumanising to the homeless, and I agree, to an extent that it certainly can’t be a nice feeling for the poor souls who are just trying to find a place to lay their head. Having said that, I would certainly not like to leave my block of flats to be confronted by an agitated, possibly mentally disturbed individual. There must be a middle ground between installing anti homeless spikes and just allowing people to bed down in your doorway.

 

[mikekle]

Oh, if that’s the case, then let’s go ahead and treat human beings like souless vermin! Why stop at spikes? I mean, why not feed them poisoned hotdogs? Why not just go out and shoot them? Why not round them up in a windowless van and take them to a facility to have them neutered? I mean, it’s for the children!

The CIA and other agencies in the Govt were actually doing that back in the 70s and 80s to homeless people, experiments giving them drugs, LSD, and other chemicals, they targeted prostitutes, homeless people and other ‘less than normal’ people in society…my opinion, if they did it back then, more than likely its still going on and probably grown larger and more disturbing, but we will never hear about it on the news.

 

[zz912]

And your solution is? These spikes only purpose is to drive the homeless into less affluent parts of town. They are treating them like vermin.

Feel free to offer your house to these homeless. These are the front doors to their homes. Is ANY level of security okay? Should we even have doors? Just allow anyone to come into our homes?

For all the people critical of this, unless you are housing a few homeless people right now, you are simply playing the reverse NIMBY game. You want everyone else to tolerate drunk, high, possibly mentally deranged people on their front porch, but you don’t do the same.

 

[Allegra]

This thread is literally making me sick to my stomach. Are there really this many people who are so ignorant about those who are inextreme poverty in our society? Are there really this many Catholics who can’t think of any solution other than spikes and calling the cops when they encounter someone who has no place to stay the night? Here is a news flash, the funky guy you encountered on the subway is NOT the representative of all homeless people. In an average community, the percentage of the homeless who are drug addicts is consitant with the general population. The only difference between the drug addict or mentally ill person on the steet and the one who is being harbored in the basement bedroom of their enableing parent’s house is that one was luckier in the family department. The pot-laced celler dweller, living off his parents is no more “moral” then those with no one to go to, but if you encountered him, you would not show him the disgust that has been shown in this thread, because he is wearing a clean shirt and checking his facebook on his iphone while he pees in your flower bed.

Futhermore, there are millions of homeless people who do not fit this stereotype at all. I hope no one on this thread has to learn by experience how easy it is to become homeless. There is a lot of pressure in our society for young people to make horrible financial decisions that can keep them on the brink of being out in the street for decades. All it takes is a severe injury or illness, an abusive relationship, a car being totalled, and a person is buried and can’t get out. Hopefully they are able to get back on track soon, but where are they supposed to sleep in the meantime?

I have had two close friends stay with me while they were homeless. Neither one had a problem with drugs. Both were employed when they became homeless.

Now, let’s talk about homeless shelters and their “reasonable-easy-to-follow-rules”. (I won’t go into rediculous rules of private homeless shelters like requiring you to attend a religious service that may go against your faith so you can hear the message of “prosperity gosple” and how your poverty is all due to your sin.) The vast majority of homeless shelters are always at capacity, which means you have to be there by a certain time, usually in the late afternoon, in order to get a bed. (Kinda difficult if you are attempting to stay employed or need to be somewhere else in order to get a meal.) Most do not take families, so you have to go to one while your spouse goes across town to another. If you have children, you run the risk of being reported to family services if you show up at all. You often get to sleep in a dormitory with dozens of strangers, any of whom could be dangerous. There are tight restrictions on what and how much you are allowed to bring in and there is no storage, so you risk losing what little belongings you have. You can also be easily bounced out and not allowed back for any infringement of the rules. (Talking too loud, getting into an argument, being accused of stealing someone’s socks, etc.)

 

[acacia12]

This thread is literally making me sick to my stomach. Are there really this many people who are so ignorant about those who are inextreme poverty in our society? Are there really this many Catholics who can’t think of any solution other than spikes and calling the cops when they encounter someone who has no place to stay the night? Here is a news flash, the funky guy you encountered on the subway is NOT the representative of all homeless people. In an average community, the percentage of the homeless who are drug addicts is consitant with the general population. The only difference between the drug addict or mentally ill person on the steet and the one who is being harbored in the basement bedroom of their enableing parent’s house is that one was luckier in the family department. The pot-laced celler dweller, living off his parents is no more “moral” then those with no one to go to, but if you encountered him, you would not show him the disgust that has been shown in this thread, because he is wearing a clean shirt and checking his facebook on his iphone while he pees in your flower bed.

Futhermore, there are millions of homeless people who do not fit this stereotype at all. I hope no one on this thread has to learn by experience how easy it is to become homeless. There is a lot of pressure in our society for young people to make horrible financial decisions that can keep them on the brink of being out in the street for decades. All it takes is a severe injury or illness, an abusive relationship, a car being totalled, and a person is buried and can’t get out. Hopefully they are able to get back on track soon, but where are they supposed to sleep in the meantime?

I have had two close friends stay with me while they were homeless. Neither one had a problem with drugs. Both were employed when they became homeless.

Now, let’s talk about homeless shelters and their “reasonable-easy-to-follow-rules”. (I won’t go into rediculous rules of private homeless shelters like requiring you to attend a religious service that may go against your faith so you can hear the message of “prosperity gosple” and how your poverty is all due to your sin.) The vast majority of homeless shelters are always at capacity, which means you have to be there by a certain time, usually in the late afternoon, in order to get a bed. (Kinda difficult if you are attempting to stay employed or need to be somewhere else in order to get a meal.) Most do not take families, so you have to go to one while your spouse goes across town to another. If you have children, you run the risk of being reported to family services if you show up at all. You often get to sleep in a dormitory with dozens of strangers, any of whom could be dangerous. There are tight restrictions on what and how much you are allowed to bring in and there is no storage, so you risk losing what little belongings you have. You can also be easily bounced out and not allowed back for any infringement of the rules. (Talking too loud, getting into an argument, being accused of stealing someone’s socks, etc.)

Thank you for this! There was a time I was homeless and on the streets. The odd time I was able to get shelter. Having to have the money to phone around shelters by a certain time in the morning or else there would be no chance of getting in one. Places were limited. First come,first serve basis. I have been a drug addict in the past and I am grateful to those that had compassion and cared. I am fortunate to have my own home and be drug free and now give back to society. I choose to keep my heart warm and not cold to those out there, because 6 years ago that was me.

 

[lutheran_farmer]

Someone sheltered a family member of mine occasionally when he was on the street. I was in the military and was stationed on the other side of the country. Thank God for those strangers that kept him safe. He’s okay now, but I never pass by a homeless person without stopping to see if I can help.

 

[Dawnia]

the percentage of the homeless who are drug addicts is consitant with the general population.

Um…about that. The homeless population does have a higher rate of drug addicts than the general population. Some become homeless because they are addicts and some become addicts because they are homeless. In fact, addiction is the single largest cause of homelessness for single adults and one of the top 3 causes in some areas for families. (National Coalition for the Homeless)

 

[mikekle]

Um…about that. The homeless population does have a higher rate of drug addicts than the general population. Some become homeless because they are addicts and some become addicts because they are homeless. In fact, addiction is the single largest cause of homelessness for single adults and one of the top 3 causes in some areas for families. (National Coalition for the Homeless)

Ive never understood how the homeless could even be drug addicts, I know from experience, drugs are very expensive…especially the ones most used, like Heroin, which averages about $150. per gram, most addicts use over a gram a day due to tolerance, that gets expensive, not sure how homeless people could come up with this kind of money on a daily basis.

 

[Holly3278]

I am sickened by this kind of thing although I can understand why they don’t want the homeless sleeping there. Nevertheless, I feel more sympathy for the homeless who have nowhere to sleep or live. If they are going to do this then let’s also see them increase funding of homeless shelters and such so that the homeless have a decent place to sleep at night. Let’s also see them increase welfare and such so that the homeless can more easily get a regular place to live, food in their stomachs, and healthcare if needed.

 

[Allegra]

Um…about that. The homeless population does have a higher rate of drug addicts than the general population. Some become homeless because they are addicts and some become addicts because they are homeless. In fact, addiction is the single largest cause of homelessness for single adults and one of the top 3 causes in some areas for families. (National Coalition for the Homeless)

drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/nationwide-trends

This study is more recent and indicates a much higher abuse of drugs and alchoholism in the general population. Either way, even if the info you provided is accurate that means that only one in three homeless people abuse alcohol and only one in four abuse drugs. Assuming that it is a moral solution to shun addicts and drive them into the slums with sharp spikes, (Because that’s how we always treat our own sons, brothers, uncles, and friends when they become addicts.) the easy majority of the homeless population have not committed the heinous crime of being addicted to drugs, so why can’t we help them?

The truth behind our self-rightous declarations of “If we help them, they’ll just drink with it.” is that we don’t want to help the homeless because we think they are icky and we don’t want to associate with them because they cramp our style and make the neighborhood “look bad”. That’s why most people, if they help at all, prefer to finance organizations that help the homeless in a facility somewhere far away from their own reputaitons and property values.

 

[ringil]

When we see a homeless person we see the face of Jesus.

The Church officially teaches that we encounter God in the poor.

How many times have our Cardinals, Bishops, and Priests told us this?

 

[Jerurussia]

Gad, these big city homeless ne’er-do-wells are insufferable! In my red neck town, the hard-working homeless would have had those iron spike rails cut off and sold for scrap in no time. Don’t they have any iron mongers in England anymore? Crikey!

 

[Holly3278]

Wasn’t Jesus Christ homeless for much of his life?

As they were going along the road, someone said to him, ‘I will follow you wherever you go.’ And Jesus said to him, ‘Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head.’
(Luke 9:57-58 NRSV-CE)

If Jesus was homeless for much of His and Jesus told us that whatever we do for the “least of these” that it is what we do to Him then perhaps we ought to think twice before we treat the homeless in such a disgusting and morally reprehensible way.

‘When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. Then the king will say to those at his right hand, “Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.” Then the righteous will answer him, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?” And the king will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.” Then he will say to those at his left hand, “You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.” Then they also will answer, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?” Then he will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.” And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.’
(Matthew 25:31-46 NRSV-CE)

 

[boomerang]

Ive never understood how the homeless could even be drug addicts, I know from experience, drugs are very expensive…especially the ones most used, like Heroin, which averages about $150. per gram, most addicts use over a gram a day due to tolerance, that gets expensive, not sure how homeless people could come up with this kind of money on a daily basis.

Theft and drug pushing. That’s how.

 

[TCEL]

I think there’s a reason “street-people” make us feel uncomfortable. I’m not in my comfort zone around them. But I know they’re people, and God loves them. I don’t know the circumstances of their lives. (How often have I made a bad decision in my own life?) Mother Teresa is a saint because she loved everyone, even the stinky, “no-good” thieves and addicts. I would love to be half so generous-hearted.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/nationwide-trends

This study is more recent and indicates a much higher abuse of drugs and alchoholism in the general population. Either way, even if the info you provided is accurate that means that only one in three homeless people abuse alcohol and only one in four abuse drugs. Assuming that it is a moral solution to shun addicts and drive them into the slums with sharp spikes, (Because that’s how we always treat our own sons, brothers, uncles, and friends when they become addicts.) the easy majority of the homeless population have not committed the heinous crime of being addicted to drugs, so why can’t we help them?

The truth behind our self-rightous declarations of “If we help them, they’ll just drink with it.” is that we don’t want to help the homeless because we think they are icky and we don’t want to associate with them because they cramp our style and make the neighborhood “look bad”. That’s why most people, if they help at all, prefer to finance organizations that help the homeless in a facility somewhere far away from their own reputaitons and property values.

My really big problem with this is that telling the homeless that they can’t be on the street, in parks, on benches, at bus stops, etc. won’t make them not homeless, it just criminalizes them for being homeless! That’s not a solution, it’s just a heartless way of getting rid of an unsightly inconvenience.

My second problem is that we live in a free society. We, as a society, allow public areas to be used by the WBC to shout insults at mourning families, we allow anti-abortion protestors to show graphic images and say all sorts of ugly things in public areas, we allow gay rights festivals and parades that often include sexual and graphic things, we allow PETA to show graphic pictures and shout things that are in poor taste, etc. Essentially, we’ve decided that these areas are for the public and can be used for any number of ugly or offensive things. But a homeless man with no where else to go? That’s what’s so offensive and damaging that it has to be acted against?

I think this is more a case where people are uncomfortable being faced with the homeless, so rather than help, they want to push them on the fringes where they will be invisible, and “not a problem” for the rest of society, you know, the good, clean, substance free people.

And finally, which is more ugly or unsightly? A homeless man asking for change, or metal spikes set up to ensure that the homeless can’t bother the “real people” and ask for help?

 

[Deus_tecum]

I know a guy who would be homeless right now if not for having an arrest warrant, and being in jail. Let’s look at why he is occasionally homeless.

1. He will not work steady.
2. What money he does make goes to drugs.
3. He eats fast food and junk food by preference, but mostly mooches food from whoever he stays with even if they are poor and it causes their children to go hungry.
4. He steals from neighbors and even the people who he is staying with.
5. He borrows the car by lying about the reason and keeps it hours longer than promised.
   
   In short he has burned his bridges and nobody that really knows him wants him in their home or around their kids. He became homeless by mistreating friends and relatives. But guess what. He never burned me because I never let him. I still love him as God would have me do, but he is never staying with me.
   
   You people with all your goopy so called compassion; I challenge you to take some of these people in for just one week. You will become an enabler. Enabling is not love.

 

[ringil]

My really big problem with this is that telling the homeless that they can’t be on the street, in parks, on benches, at bus stops, etc. won’t make them not homeless, it just criminalizes them for being homeless! That’s not a solution, it’s just a heartless way of getting rid of an unsightly inconvenience.

My second problem is that we live in a free society. We, as a society, allow public areas to be used by the WBC to shout insults at mourning families, we allow anti-abortion protestors to show graphic images and say all sorts of ugly things in public areas, we allow gay rights festivals and parades that often include sexual and graphic things, we allow PETA to show graphic pictures and shout things that are in poor taste, etc. Essentially, we’ve decided that these areas are for the public and can be used for any number of ugly or offensive things. But a homeless man with no where else to go? That’s what’s so offensive and damaging that it has to be acted against?

I think this is more a case where people are uncomfortable being faced with the homeless, so rather than help, they want to push them on the fringes where they will be invisible, and “not a problem” for the rest of society, you know, the good, clean, substance free people.

And finally, which is more ugly or unsightly? A homeless man asking for change, or metal spikes set up to ensure that the homeless can’t bother the “real people” and ask for help?

And an atheist represents the Faith better than many here presenting as Catholic.

Shame on those who disparage the homeless- the face of Christ.

 

[estesbob]

I know a guy who would be homeless right now if not for having an arrest warrant, and being in jail. Let’s look at why he is occasionally homeless.

1. He will not work steady.
2. What money he does make goes to drugs.
3. He eats fast food and junk food by preference, but mostly mooches food from whoever he stays with even if they are poor and it causes their children to go hungry.
4. He steals from neighbors and even the people who he is staying with.
5. He borrows the car by lying about the reason and keeps it hours longer than promised.

In short he has burned his bridges and nobody that really knows him wants him in their home or around their kids. He became homeless by mistreating friends and relatives. But guess what. He never burned me because I never let him. I still love him as God would have me do, but he is never staying with me.

You people with all your goopy so called compassion; I challenge you to take some of these people in for just one week. You will become an enabler. Enabling is not love.

We are not talking about putting him up-we are talking about putting metal stakes on planters to keep him from sitting down.