'Homeless spikes' installed outside London flats

[Allegra]

My really big problem with this is that telling the homeless that they can’t be on the street, in parks, on benches, at bus stops, etc. won’t make them not homeless, it just criminalizes them for being homeless!

Absolutely. My friend who was homeless went to another town for a job interview. She didn’t have the money to stay in a hotel and there didn’t seem to be any other option, so she parked her car in a grocery store parking lot and slept in the car. The cops came and gave her a $100 citation and told her she had to leave, even though the store was closed and she wasn’t causing any problems. So, she drove around a while and found another place on a street where she parked. She got harrassed by the police there as well!

 

[acacia12]

I know a guy who would be homeless right now if not for having an arrest warrant, and being in jail. Let’s look at why he is occasionally homeless.

1. He will not work steady.
2. What money he does make goes to drugs.
3. He eats fast food and junk food by preference, but mostly mooches food from whoever he stays with even if they are poor and it causes their children to go hungry.
4. He steals from neighbors and even the people who he is staying with.
5. He borrows the car by lying about the reason and keeps it hours longer than promised.
   
   In short he has burned his bridges and nobody that really knows him wants him in their home or around their kids. He became homeless by mistreating friends and relatives. But guess what. He never burned me because I never let him. I still love him as God would have me do, but he is never staying with me.
   
   You people with all your goopy so called compassion; I challenge you to take some of these people in for just one week. You will become an enabler. Enabling is not love.

I have taken “these people” in (I was one of “these people”). I have had people stay with me from one day- 3 months. It’s what we do in the 12 step fellowship that I am in. We help each other.

 

[TCEL]

You people with all your goopy so called compassion; I challenge you to take some of these people in for just one week. You will become an enabler. Enabling is not love.

I don’t think anyone here is naïve or sentimental about poverty, and to have compassion is not to be blind. I think Chesterton said something to the effect that love is anything but blind.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

It seems like they could come up with a more creative solution than spikes. How about planter boxes, or large pots of plants? Also if a homeless person piled enough boxes and blankets in that area with the spikes, they could probably still sleep on them.

The trouble is that so many of the so called “homeless” are young people in our area. Just hanging out with all their buddies doing drugs and roaming the streets like packs of animals. It’s hard to feel sympathy for them. I’m sure they do take advantage of free meals and other free handouts, but they also act like all public places belong to them.

Don’t get me wrong, I know there are mentally ill homeless people too, and drunks that stumble into doorways to sleep it off, but in Portland, Oregon where I work, there is a real problem with young “homeless” street gangs, who panhandle, steal and commit other crimes (even murder).

I don’t like the spikes though. Very ugly, and they could be dangerous to children too.

 

[Holly3278]

I think there’s a reason “street-people” make us feel uncomfortable. I’m not in my comfort zone around them. But I know they’re people, and God loves them. I don’t know the circumstances of their lives. (How often have I made a bad decision in my own life?) Mother Teresa is a saint because she loved everyone, even the stinky, “no-good” thieves and addicts. I would love to be half so generous-hearted.

I agree with you that there is a reason why we don’t feel comfortable around homeless people. I believe it is because they simply do not fit into our stereotypical view of what a normal civilized human being is supposed to be like. Basically they are different from us. Often times they are not clean either because of their inability to access a shower or bath. Someone who is not clean is going to make someone uncomfortable because we in modern society know that cleanliness is important for health. I also think that there is a stereotype which is more false than true that many homeless people are criminals who could mug you. I am not blaming you or anyone else but rather I am blaming myself and anyone else who sees this as describing them here but I honestly think that everyone needs to ask God for an increased love for our neighbor. Let’s let people like Blessed Mother Teresa be our holy example. All people are created in the image of God and all people have an inherent worth and dignity in the eyes of God. It should be that way in everyone’s eyes, including my own, but because we are prone to sin such as pride, we have a tendency to not view people in the way that they should be much of the time. Again, I am not implicating anyone in this description but myself.

 

[SpeakInSilence]

I heard that after Jesus got done telling the story of the Good Samaritan he suggested putting up road side spikes in order to deter bleeding Samaritans from polluting the road side.

 

[Deus_tecum]

We are not talking about putting him up-we are talking about putting metal stakes on planters to keep him from sitting down.

I am pretty sure there are plenty of places to sit down on public property that do not have the studs. I seriously doubt they are sharp metal spikes.

 

[mikekle]

It seems like they could come up with a more creative solution than spikes. How about planter boxes, or large pots of plants? Also if a homeless person piled enough boxes and blankets in that area with the spikes, they could probably still sleep on them.

The trouble is that so many of the so called “homeless” are young people in our area. Just hanging out with all their buddies doing drugs and roaming the streets like packs of animals. It’s hard to feel sympathy for them. I’m sure they do take advantage of free meals and other free handouts, but they also act like all public places belong to them.

Don’t get me wrong, I know there are mentally ill homeless people too, and drunks that stumble into doorways to sleep it off, but in Portland, Oregon where I work, there is a real problem with young “homeless” street gangs, who panhandle, steal and commit other crimes (even murder).

I don’t like the spikes though. Very ugly, and they could be dangerous to children too.

Well, not everyone will like it, but we do live in a free society (supposedly), so all those people have the right to live like that if they choose. Since we live in a free country, who are we to try and tell them where they can and cannot go or gather?

BTW, I would bet it wont be long before those spiked strips of metal are cut off and sold for scrap…someone will make some money to use on drugs, alcohol, food, etc at the cost of the county that bought and installed those spikes! LOL

 

[Lost_Sheep]

For you always have the poor with you, and whenever you wish you can do good to them; but you do not always have Me. -Mark 14:7

Key word is “wish.” Jesus did not mandate we “must” help them.

 

[estesbob]

I am pretty sure there are plenty of places to sit down on public property that do not have the studs. I seriously doubt they are sharp metal spikes.

So that’s how we affirm the dignity of man-forcing him to sit down someplace other than on a street where the rich live.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Key word is “wish.” Jesus did not mandate we “must” help them.

We should attempt to help them and when they are willing to abide in honesty by the established rules of a shelter, but the ones who abandon this in favor of their addiction, then what do we say here? Its denial on their part and prayer on ours. But these camps are indeed growing. There’s one here in which the same people been living out there, and some for well over a decade. This is a problem with no real solution.

 

[pnewton]

Well, not everyone will like it, but we do live in a free society (supposedly), so all those people have the right to live like that if they choose. Since we live in a free country, who are we to try and tell them where they can and cannot go or gather?

Again, weren’t these put up on private property? In a free society, can one not secure private property? Heck, some places have laws permitting force to remove one from private property.

I have to agree that the spikes are a symbolically disturbing way to do that and a less de-humanizing method might have been used. As to the compassion toward the homeless, I think to judge anyone, more knowledge would be needed. This is why God is the only true judge. Do these home-owners support the poor and needy? Opening one’s home is charity, but it is not the only form of charity.

 

[Nan_S]

What, exactly, are all you people so outraged about???

Yes, I see spikes, rocks and vertical strips in alcoves and atop walls. But I see nothing on the sidewalk next to the alcoves and walls, nor do I see vast sections of grassland covered with thornbushes and nettles, nor do I see barricades blocking alleys, nor do I see doors and locks blocking access to benches. No one is preventing the homeless from finding a place to sleep; they are merely preventing them from sleeping in particular spots.

These spikes, rocks, and vertical strips are designed to keep people from loitering in very specific places - certain alcoves and wall-tops. You are complaining as if the entire town, including all its sidewalks, benches, grasslands, and alleyways, was blanketed with spikes. That is clearly not the case.

Are property owners not permitted to take reasonable unobtrusive measures to protect certain portions of their property? Or do they just have to give everything over to whomever may want to take possession at any time? Why are you complaining because there is a metal strip on a wall, but seem to think it’s perfectly fine that the door next to the wall is locked? If you want to “protect” the homeless, shouldn’t you be insisting that the building doors be unlocked too?

Better yet, If you’re so concerned about the homeless being denied access to someone else’s property, why don’t you build your OWN barrier-free walls and alcoves so the perpetually homeless have a place to sleep? While you’re at it, you can tack signs on those wall inviting the homeless into your own living room for the night.

Hypocrites.

---

I will do for others what they can not do for themselves.

I will not do for others what they refuse to do for themselves.

There is a difference. The first is helpless and presumably would change his or her situation if only given a chance, or two or three chances since it is part of human nature to backslide. The second is an unrepentant sinner with a hardened heart.

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

 

[Digitonomy]

In the US, I don’t think one would be wise to put spikes in the sidewalk alcove right outside the door, as shown in the original article. Too much liability if someone knocks on your door and trips onto them.

Anyway, the use of this sort of design to control activities of people is apparently called disciplinary architecture.
Deus tecum:

The spikes do nothing more that say “keep off” just like a fence implies “keep out” as does a locked door.

Exactly. Besides the use on private property discussed in the OP, disciplinary architecture is widely used in public spaces to encourage people to stay on the sidewalk and not wander into the street or trample through the shrubs, to sit on benches instead of lying down, to keep cars from parking on sidewalks, and as mentioned above to protect flower beds.

I think it would be irresponsible for a city to invest money in beautifying an area with flowers if the expectation was that the flowers would quickly get squashed by people sleeping on them. Similarly, it would be irresponsible for a transit authority to invest in benches if the benches were likely to be filled with people sleeping on them, and thus preventing riders from using them.

I have even seen disciplinary architecture used in hospitals, where parts of the counter at the nurses’ stations were sloped to prevent doctors from standing there doing paperwork.

 

[estesbob]

In the US, I don’t think one would be wise to put spikes in the sidewalk alcove right outside the door, as shown in the original article. Too much liability if someone knocks on your door and trips onto them.

Anyway, the use of this sort of design to control activities of people is apparently called disciplinary architecture.
Exactly. Besides the use on private property discussed in the OP, disciplinary architecture is widely used in public spaces to encourage people to stay on the sidewalk and not wander into the street or trample through the shrubs, to sit on benches instead of lying down, to keep cars from parking on sidewalks, and as mentioned above to protect flower beds.

I think it would be irresponsible for a city to invest money in beautifying an area with flowers if the expectation was that the flowers would quickly get squashed by people sleeping on them. Similarly, it would be irresponsible for a transit authority to invest in benches if the benches were likely to be filled with people sleeping on them, and thus preventing riders from using them.

I have even seen disciplinary architecture used in hospitals, where parts of the counter at the nurses’ stations were sloped to prevent doctors from standing there doing paperwork.

We are talking about spikes on planters and low walls adjacent to Public Sidewalks. Their sole purpose is to keep the homeless(or anyone else) from sitting down. it is demeaning to everyone.

 

[Lost_Sheep]

We should attempt to help them and when they are willing to abide in honesty by the established rules of a shelter, but the ones who abandon this in favor of their addiction, then what do we say here?

We say “Oh well, we tried” and move on to a problem that we *can *solve.

 

[estesbob]

We say “Oh well, we tried” and move on to a problem that we *can *solve.

We are not talking about an excessive amount of help here-we are talking about allowing them to sit down with their feet on a public sidewalk and their rear ends on the planter or low wall of someone who is apparently offended by poor people sitting in front of their apt.

 

[Allegra]

Better yet, If you’re so concerned about the homeless being denied access to someone else’s property, why don’t you build your OWN barrier-free walls and alcoves so the perpetually homeless have a place to sleep? While you’re at it, you can tack signs on those wall inviting the homeless into your own living room for the night.

Hypocrites.

Is it really so hard for you to believe that people actually do that? I have friends that live in Chicago where they have homeless people sleeping in the midway in front of their apartment almost every single night. When it get’s hot out, they go out and bring them bottles of cold water. They give them food and bus cards. They’ve administered first aid and there’s one guy who they let sleep on their screened in porch. He watches their house while they are away and cleans the snow off all of the neighbors’ cars. They aren’t bleeding heart eccentrics. LOTS of real life people consider the needs of homeless people and provide for them everyday. Even including letting them stay with them in some situations. I know of two people who are mentally ill and have no family, and so they have entire communities watching over them, making sure they have something to eat and a place to spend the night. I’m not sure why people think this doesn’t happen anywhere but in Scripture.

 

[Kit15]

We are talking about spikes on planters and low walls adjacent to Public Sidewalks. Their sole purpose is to keep the homeless(or anyone else) from sitting down. it is demeaning to everyone.

One of the images I saw had spikes on a park bench. You feed the bench coins and the spikes retract into the bench for whatever amount of time.

To be fair it may have been a photomanip but if it’s not…

 

[estesbob]

Is it really so hard for you to believe that people actually do that? I have friends that live in Chicago where they have homeless people sleeping in the midway in front of their apartment almost every single night. When it get’s hot out, they go out and bring them bottles of cold water. They give them food and bus cards. They’ve administered first aid and there’s one guy who they let sleep on their screened in porch. He watches their house while they are away and cleans the snow off all of the neighbors’ cars. They aren’t bleeding heart eccentrics. LOTS of real life people consider the needs of homeless people and provide for them everyday. Even including letting them stay with them in some situations. I know of two people who are mentally ill and have no family, and so they have entire communities watching over them, making sure they have something to eat and a place to spend the night. I’m not sure why people think this doesn’t happen anywhere but in Scripture.

I recall a time where I saw a homeless man standing on the corner. He was holding a sign that said "bet you cant hit me with a quarter. I pulled over and asked him to come close and I hit him with a $20.00 bill . He laughed and told me a blond joke and I teased him about his Broncos t shirt . We talked football for a bit and then I was on may way. Made my day.

He was/is a human being-not just some guy standing on the corner and I am blessed to have been able to talk to him. It was the best $20 I ever spent.