Homeschoolers forced into CCD for First Holy Eucharist

[churchsecretary]

Let me start off this post by stating emphatically that most of the homeschoolers I know are devout, obedient Catholics. Their children know their religion through & through, & put the other children in CCD classes (& even Catholic school) to shame. I have friends who homeschool their children, and they do a glorious job of it. One homeschooling mom in my parish has recently started a Catholic homeschool group that meets in our parish, & draws families from several different parishes in the diocese. They do a craft, use the hall for gym time, & have a music class, twice a month. They also serve at Mass, sing in the Children’s Choir, and help with various projects/fundraising activities at the church. They have no problems with socialization.

That being said, I will tell you that this past year, 2 children in one family received sacraments: one, First Communion, the other, Confirmation. In the past, Father would evaluate on an individual basis. Because of differences in homeschooling families (they aren’t all religiously based, for instance) Father made the rule that for First Communion, the child would meet with him for an interview (which they all do anyway) to determine if they knew basic information. Then, they join the CCD children only for the First Communion Retreat and the actual sacrament. One concession is that because *most * homeschoolers are far ahead of CCD, they normally make First Communion in the 2nd grade, where CCD waits until 3rd grade. This has been a fair & equitable trade off, I think, & we haven’t had any homeschoolers disagree (so far).

The rule for Confirmation is different, in that part of preparation for that sacrament includes community service, which Father feels very strongly about. He was a Catholic school teacher/administrator for 17 years before becoming our pastor, so he knows young people quite well! For Confirmation, the homeschooling students join the CCD class for the 2nd year of classes only. The young girl of this family who received confirmation with my daughter last year was like a beacon of light in that class! She brought in a different perspective, and where the public school kids learned from her, she also enjoyed being with them & helping at the service projects.

I can also tell you that all CCD programs are not bad! I live in a pretty conservative diocese, which has set a new curriculum for us to follow. I teach 2nd grade & I, too, have had kids in my classroom who were clueless as far as their faith. I usually do at least one, sometimes two, “sit-in” Masses each year, where the kids all sit together, with me & my aid, in the 10:45 Mass so that they actually GET to Mass. Otherwise, how can I possibly teach them about the Mass if they rarely attend??? On the other hand, I also have had quite a few parents who help the kids do their homework, do the required “take home projects” (I usually assign two per year) and help them study for tests & memorization of the Act of Contrition. If I have a student who is floundering, the poor test score, etc. are sent home with the child, & if that doesn’t work, the DRE will threaten them with repeating the year.

 

[EasterJoy]

I absolutely agree with that statement. I have demonstrated that the policy in the Latin Church is that parents are the primary educators. I have repeatedly asked someone to show that the parish or diocese has the competence to restrict that right. No one has even attempted to do so. The parents, as members of the lay faithful, have the right under canon law (221 in the Latin code, 24 in the Oriental Code) to vindicate their rights under canon law. To suggest, then, that consulting a canon lawyer is disobedience… what does that become? The same for asking for a clarification.

If the bishop wishes the authority to exempt the diocese from upholding the rights and responsibilities of the parents, then of course he is free to ask for such an exemption, but the Church is not bound to provide it.

You are right. It is not disobedient to respectfully insist on rights. If it were, the rights are not deserving of the name. It is sensible to consult with a canon lawyer in cases like these.

Having said that, lawyers, even canon lawyers, are employed to defend these rights only as a last resort. It is better to make every effort to resolve this by discussions that end in a mutually agreeable solution, without having it degenerate into a battle of wills that require intervention by the Vatican to address. Nobody wants that.

“Consult a lawyer” does not mean “sue”. It means to ask someone knowledgeable to explain the situation fully. That is reasonable.

Let me start off this post by stating emphatically that most of the homeschoolers I know are devout, obedient Catholics. Their children know their religion through & through, & put the other children in CCD classes (& even Catholic school) to shame. I have friends who homeschool their children, and they do a glorious job of it. One homeschooling mom in my parish has recently started a Catholic homeschool group that meets in our parish, & draws families from several different parishes in the diocese. They do a craft, use the hall for gym time, & have a music class, twice a month. They also serve at Mass, sing in the Children’s Choir, and help with various projects/fundraising activities at the church. They have no problems with socialization.

That being said, I will tell you that this past year, 2 children in one family received sacraments: one, First Communion, the other, Confirmation. In the past, Father would evaluate on an individual basis. Because of differences in homeschooling families (they aren’t all religiously based, for instance) Father made the rule that for First Communion, the child would meet with him for an interview (which they all do anyway) to determine if they knew basic information. Then, they join the CCD children only for the First Communion Retreat and the actual sacrament. One concession is that because *most * homeschoolers are far ahead of CCD, they normally make First Communion in the 2nd grade, where CCD waits until 3rd grade. This has been a fair & equitable trade off, I think, & we haven’t had any homeschoolers disagree (so far).

The rule for Confirmation is different, in that part of preparation for that sacrament includes community service, which Father feels very strongly about. He was a Catholic school teacher/administrator for 17 years before becoming our pastor, so he knows young people quite well! For Confirmation, the homeschooling students join the CCD class for the 2nd year of classes only. The young girl of this family who received confirmation with my daughter last year was like a beacon of light in that class! She brought in a different perspective, and where the public school kids learned from her, she also enjoyed being with them & helping at the service projects.

I can also tell you that all CCD programs are not bad! I live in a pretty conservative diocese, which has set a new curriculum for us to follow. I teach 2nd grade & I, too, have had kids in my classroom who were clueless as far as their faith. I usually do at least one, sometimes two, “sit-in” Masses each year, where the kids all sit together, with me & my aid, in the 10:45 Mass so that they actually GET to Mass. Otherwise, how can I possibly teach them about the Mass if they rarely attend??? On the other hand, I also have had quite a few parents who help the kids do their homework, do the required “take home projects” (I usually assign two per year) and help them study for tests & memorization of the Act of Contrition. If I have a student who is floundering, the poor test score, etc. are sent home with the child, & if that doesn’t work, the DRE will threaten them with repeating the year.

This seems very reasonable for all involved, a really nice way to do it.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

I absolutely agree with that statement. I have demonstrated that the policy in the Latin Church is that parents are the primary educators.

OK, so how does CCD prevent parents from being the primary educators?

I have repeatedly asked someone to show that the parish or diocese has the competence to restrict that right.

How does CCD “restrict” the rights of parents?

 

[CDNowak]

OK, so how does CCD prevent parents from being the primary educators?

How does CCD “restrict” the rights of parents?

It is not CCD I object, it is mandatory CCD.

 

[jmcrae]

OK, so how does CCD prevent parents from being the primary educators?

We go to their house and grab all their Baltimore Catechisms and exchange them for picture books about sheep and stuff. In this way, we hope to make their kids unlearn everything they have memorized up to this point. Plus, we make them sing “Good Morning Jesus!” just in case the picture books don’t completely fry their brains. (Kidding!! )

In our Diocese, the only parish-based programs are the short little programs for Sacramental Preparation, and a separate program for kids who don’t attend Catholic schools that runs once a week for about six months, which is open to Grades 1-9. All of these have home components which the parents can use for story-telling, prayer time, and home rituals such as Advent candles, etc. If they don’t like our home program, they are certainly free to use anything they like; it’s not like I am going around to every house to see if they are doing the program. (Although I can certainly tell the difference between kids who are practicing their faith at home in some way, and kids who are not.)

The longest Sacramental Preparation program I know of is six weeks long, for Confirmation. I am reading on here about 2-year programs for Confirmation, but I have no idea what you would teach for two whole years on Confirmation; it’s not that big of a subject, honestly.

 

[EasterJoy]

OK, so how does CCD prevent parents from being the primary educators?

How does CCD “restrict” the rights of parents?

In general terms, I see your point. A pastor has the responsibility to prepare candidates in his parish for the sacraments. He not only can but needs to have preparation requirements. Remember, though, that we are not talking about parents in general, but about home schoolers. That is a bit different.

Imagine you’re the principal of a school, and you are forced by the state superintendent to spend your district’s resources to send your students out of district to repeat courses of the same material in the same year that you are already teaching them in district, because “that’s the policy.” I think you’d see the parallel. In what sense is that principal not going to feel his legitimate authority has been usurped?

Home school parents generally see themselves as the principals of competent Church schools. It is hard to tell them “you are the primary educator” and “you have to make your student present for material you have already formally presented to them at your school” without talking out of both sides of the mouth. It’s like telling a parent who pays to send their kid to St. Agatha’s that they will have to have their child in CCD classes at St. Lucy’s because all St. Lucy students not enrolled at St. Lucy Parish School are required to take St. Lucy CCD for two years before receiving sacraments at St. Lucy parish. Huh??

If you look at it that way, it is a ridiculous waste of the home schooler students’ and teachers’ time and resources, not to mention insulting. If St. Lucy’s pastor wouldn’t pull that on students going to St. Agatha, he shouldn’t do it to competent Catholic home schoolers, either.

Requiring home school students to do exactly what students attending parochial school outside parish have to do is totally reasonable: attending retreats, that kind of thing. Requiring home school parents who want to be treated as a Catholic home school to use materials and testing methods approved by the diocese is reasonable. Forcing them to go to CCD in their home parish really isn’t.

 

[HouseArrest]

In general terms, I see your point. A pastor has the responsibility to prepare candidates in his parish for the sacraments. He not only can but needs to have preparation requirements. Remember, though, that we are not talking about parents in general, but about home schoolers. That is a bit different.

Imagine you’re the principal of a school, and you are forced by the state superintendent to spend your district’s resources to send your students out of district to repeat courses of the same material in the same year that you are already teaching them in district, because “that’s the policy.” I think you’d see the parallel. In what sense is that principal not going to feel his legitimate authority has been usurped?

Home school parents generally see themselves as the principals of competent Church schools. It is hard to tell them “you are the primary educator” and “you have to make your student present for material you have already formally presented to them at your school” without talking out of both sides of the mouth. It’s like telling a parent who pays to send their kid to St. Agatha’s that they will have to have their child in CCD classes at St. Lucy’s because all St. Lucy students not enrolled at St. Lucy Parish School are required to take St. Lucy CCD for two years before receiving sacraments at St. Lucy parish. Huh??

If you look at it that way, it is a ridiculous waste of the home schooler students’ and teachers’ time and resources, not to mention insulting. If St. Lucy’s pastor wouldn’t pull that on students going to St. Agatha, he shouldn’t do it to competent Catholic home schoolers, either.

Requiring home school students to do exactly what students attending parochial school outside parish have to do is totally reasonable: attending retreats, that kind of thing. Requiring home school parents who want to be treated as a Catholic home school to use materials and testing methods approved by the diocese is reasonable. Forcing them to go to CCD in their home parish really isn’t.

Our students have to do just what you write about - our 11th graders at the Catholic high school “must” attend Confirmation classes (CCD) in out of school. Some complain and hands are slapped when they question why. They get accused of being snobby. I think it is a fair question, but it is not really ever answered. The parents just complain a little (they are surprised to find that out) and comply. After a few weeks they quiet down. What is most interesting to me is that our diocese allows for homeschooling all years of CCD including sacramental prep. Why they never look that far into it is beyond me.

 

[Brendan]

How does CCD “restrict” the rights of parents?

If it’s not considered to be mandatory, it doesn’t.

The rights of the parents are to teach the children about the nature of the Sacrament they are to recieve.

It is the right of the pastor ( or delegate) to interview the child to verify that the required knowledge has been passed on.

It is NOT the right of the parent to do the interview for the pastor, and it is NOT the right of the pastor to tell the parents how the education must be done.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

If it’s not considered to be mandatory, it doesn’t.

The rights of the parents are to teach the children about the nature of the Sacrament they are to recieve.

It is the right of the pastor ( or delegate) to interview the child to verify that the required knowledge has been passed on.

It is NOT the right of the parent to do the interview for the pastor, and it is NOT the right of the pastor to tell the parents how the education must be done.

Just a comment. I fail to see how a mandatory CCD restricts the rights of the parents to teach their children.

They are free to do what ever they wish in their homes, a mandatory CCD would not “restrict” this in any way.

 

[PaulinVA]

Home school parents generally see themselves as the principals of competent Church schools.

Thank you for that insight.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Just a comment. I fail to see how a mandatory CCD restricts the rights of the parents to teach their children.

They are free to do what ever they wish in their homes, a mandatory CCD would not “restrict” this in any way.

Sorry Brendan but I think I am going to answer my own question now that I looked at the Canons.

Can. 793 §1 Parents, and those who take their place, have both the obligation and the right to educate their children. Catholic parents have also the duty and the right to choose those means and institutes which, in their local circumstances, can best promote the catholic education of their children.

I think the bolded portion answers my quesiton.

 

[EasterJoy]

Just a comment. I fail to see how a mandatory CCD restricts the rights of the parents to teach their children.

They are free to do what ever they wish in their homes, a mandatory CCD would not “restrict” this in any way.

Are you arguing, then–as I believe some anti-parochial school forces in Oregon did about 75 years ago–that if the state made attendance at public schools mandatory, that would in no way “restrict” the rights of parents to make educational decisions for their kids? After all, they would still be free to teach their kids whatever they wanted to at home, right?

The state has the responsibility to see to it that all kids get an education. It is the right of the state to dictate curriculum and educational benchmarks that have to be met for a school to be accredited. But most of us can see that dictating that that education be obtained in a certain way goes over a line.

We are also not talking about withholding the chance to participate in Boy Scouts or play on the school basketball team. If the Sacraments of Initiation are withheld from fully prepared Catholics because those Catholics will not comply with a parish-sponsored school system, then those Catholics are being held hostage. The Church can’t get off the hook because the time required is less, particularly when the time required is usually entirely inflexible. Give us your Wednesday nights for two years, or you don’t get to complete the Sacraments of Initiation. Those Sacraments, however, are not a privelege. It is the right of Catholics to have access to them. Canon law says this.

I would go so far as to say this applies as much to marriage preparation as it does to First Holy Communion. And like marriage preparation, the bishops would be hard-pressed to demonstrate that their programs have resulted in a clear advantage in outcome. If it did, we wouldn’t have Gallup polls showing belief in the True Presence falling from 75% to 29% in the decades since Vatican II. We wouldn’t have a divorce rate like everyone else’s. Granted, that may not be the bishops’ fault, they don’t control the entire culture, but neither has their solutions to the problems been so successful as to argue in favor of making those solutions mandatory.

I say this as a catechist. What I do (well, did; I don’t have the 2nd year class anymore) is to have the privelege to help parents prepare their children for the Sacraments. In my experience, it is fully reasonable that some do not need my help. The truth is the reverse: without their help, our parish program cannot really prepare the children properly. Some of the material has to be learned at home. It is absurd to me that home schooling wouldn’t be allowed, not even with interviews of the children to ensure readiness.

Again: Requiring that candidates who prepare outside a parish program demonstrate mastery is reasonable. Requiring the entire group of candidates to do some portion of their preparation as a group–the things the parish school kids have to do together with the RE kids–is reasonable. Requiring that candidates from one Catholic program with Catholic teachers (Catholic home schooling) go through a program not required of another (the parish school) with no demonstrated advantage in outcome is not. It is unnecessarily restrictive.

 

[jmcrae]

Give us your Wednesday nights for two years, or you don’t get to complete the Sacraments of Initiation.

Believe it or not, I totally agree with this.

What in the world are they teaching, that takes two years to teach?

At our parish, we cover the Sacrament of Reconciliation in four weeks, for 20 minutes on each of four Sundays. For the Sacrament of Holy Communion, we take six Sundays (20 minutes each Sunday) and a four hour Retreat the day before. For the Sacrament of Confirmation, we take six Sundays (20 minutes) plus four Mondays for those who want to go deeper with the material, and a five hour Retreat.

The first year that I was doing it, we had very low attendance, and I didn’t want to make a big deal out of it - people thought I was mad at them, so the second year, I told the parents, “We are here to help you teach your children. We are not here to take over your child’s learning. Father will be able to tell whether your child did the home study portion of the program, or not, when he interviews your child prior to receiving the Sacrament.” Because I wanted to reassure them that we weren’t mad at them for the poor attendance, because we understand that it’s what happens at home that makes the difference, anyway.

Funny (strange) thing - suddenly, nearly every kid had perfect attendance at the Sunday sessions.

 

[ASD]

OK, so how does CCD prevent parents from being the primary educators? How does CCD “restrict” the rights of parents?

Obviously it can do so to some extent by coercing or compelling parents to expose their children to nonsense that the parents judge not to be in the best interests of the children.

IMHO, it’s plain that CDNowak’s general point is sound: Handing on our religious tradition is one of the most important responsibilities parents have. It can’t really be delegated to parish bureaucrats who force stuff like this on us.

ASD​

Traditional Latin Mass: Translation and Grammar

 

[Learning123]

Sorry Brendan but I think I am going to answer my own question now that I looked at the Canons.

Can. 793 §1 Parents, and those who take their place, have both the obligation and the right to educate their children. Catholic parents have also the duty and the right to choose those means and institutes which, in their local circumstances, can best promote the catholic education of their children.

I think the bolded portion answers my quesiton.

Thank you ByzCath! This is certainly among the Canons I read. It can seem so clear, but again the issue of semantics. Does “catholic education” not include sacramental preparation? If not what is the distinction.

From the perspective of the priest and Bishop sacramental preparation is very different from regular catechesis. Are there Canons or encyclicals that make this distinction? I feel like I’ve read hundreds of pages these last few weeks (I’m not the fastest reader which is why I persist in my lack of sleep!), probably around half of it I had read before. However, when I was doing this reading I wasn’t looking for that distinction. Can anybody help me with that?

 

[maryjk]

We are also not talking about withholding the chance to participate in Boy Scouts or play on the school basketball team. If the Sacraments of Initiation are withheld from fully prepared Catholics because those Catholics will not comply with a parish-sponsored school system, then those Catholics are being held hostage. The Church can’t get off the hook because the time required is less, particularly when the time required is usually entirely inflexible. Give us your Wednesday nights for two years, or you don’t get to complete the Sacraments of Initiation. Those Sacraments, however, are not a privelege. It is the right of Catholics to have access to them. Canon law says this.

That is how I felt when i was told that either my son attends the overnight coed retreat or he doesn’t make his Confirmation. I felt like a hostage to the Church. It was really the first time I questioned the rules of the Church. Then I find out that it isn’t the rules of the Church, just the rules of the local parish. By that time, he had already attended the retreat.

 

[EasterJoy]

Believe it or not, I totally agree with this.

What in the world are they teaching, that takes two years to teach?

At our parish, we cover the Sacrament of Reconciliation in four weeks, for 20 minutes on each of four Sundays. For the Sacrament of Holy Communion, we take six Sundays (20 minutes each Sunday) and a four hour Retreat the day before. For the Sacrament of Confirmation, we take six Sundays (20 minutes) plus four Mondays for those who want to go deeper with the material, and a five hour Retreat.

The first year that I was doing it, we had very low attendance, and I didn’t want to make a big deal out of it - people thought I was mad at them, so the second year, I told the parents, “We are here to help you teach your children. We are not here to take over your child’s learning. Father will be able to tell whether your child did the home study portion of the program, or not, when he interviews your child prior to receiving the Sacrament.” Because I wanted to reassure them that we weren’t mad at them for the poor attendance, because we understand that it’s what happens at home that makes the difference, anyway.

Funny (strange) thing - suddenly, nearly every kid had perfect attendance at the Sunday sessions.

I think the strategy of selling the real value of the program, rather than mandating it, is an excellent one.

Sadly, it takes two years because of the number of parents who do essentially nothing at home…and I do mean nothing. The level of ignorance kids come in with is shocking, as one poster has already noted. But again: it is on the same level as the number of high schoolers who cannot identify the Pacific Ocean on an unlabeled map. This stuff doesn’t just soak in by osmosis from thin air. You may feel you were born knowing it, but you aren’t. A lot of parishes would gladly make twelve years of RE mandatory for the kids who get nothing at home, but that just isn’t possible. So to be honest (IMHO, mind you): it is two years, because two years is the most parishes can get by with before coughing up access to Holy Communion. It is less than the kids should be getting, but their hands are tied.

As an example, I have a friend who was baptized Catholic, but his parents quit attending when they moved from one town to another, when he was four or five. This poor fellow Catholic actually asked me once why people say Jesus was Jewish, since he thought Jesus was Christian! So when he started dating this young Presbyterian woman, and she asked what denomination his family was, he said he’d have to ask his mom. When he did, his mother was flabbergasted to find out he didn’t know he was Catholic! He very sensibly asked her how he was supposed to have known, since he got no catechesis as a kid and was never taken to church except for Christmas! If you want your kid to be able to find the Pacific Ocean on a map, you have to see to it that they actually see a map or a globe once in awhile. You can’t show them once when they’re in first grade, forget about geography for the rest of their childhood, and have it all covered.

This is why I don’t lay ignorance of the True Presence entirely on the clergy. Kids aren’t going to pick that up from sitting through adult homilies sitting next to parents who never talk about the faith at home. They just aren’t. If the parents don’t take the faith seriously except to attend Mass as the whim hits them, what Father says is not going to be taken that seriously, either, no matter how serious Father is about it.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Parish priests of large and small parishes do not want to get into the “make an exception for me” syndrome. It starts with one legitimate family’s request and spins out of control into an unmanageable mess.
I have about 1,800 families in my parish. We have double first communions and over 100 kids each year for confirmation. Its simply not practical to expect me to interview all these people each and every year. That’s why we have programs. I’ve yet to have anyone ask for exemptions from the entire program but I fear the day someone does ask and then the flood gates open when word gets around.
A smaller parish would experience similar problems with the fact that word gets around much easier. And each parent that doesn’t feel like driving their kid to CCD will ask for the same treatment.
In each case the parish community, mentally, becomes less of a faith community and more like a bunch of people who just happen to occupy the same space on Sundays. How do we expect children to understand that we’re all connected to one another in the Church if they experience the Church as something individual and without others?

Now, those of you who would write to the bishops office. There’s 2 ways that can play out:

1. Some bishops can’t be bothered. They’ll simply take your side because they don’t want to be bothered with mediating the situation. So if you have one of them then you’ll win out.
2. Other bishops will back their pastors on such an issue to the hilt. You’ll end up wasting time with them trying to mediate a solution and you’ll end up after a while simply writing to Rome. Rome will then take its own sweet time to respond and eventually you’ll get a letter that supports you. But how long will that take and is it really worth it?

I see that many people are pointing out that it’s their canonical right to educate their children in the faith. I don’t think anyone disagrees in principle. I just don’t think the canon was erected as a way for families to avoid contact with parish CCD programs. Yes you have the letter of the law on your side, but I’m not so sure about the spirit of the law. Unless the parish is teaching outright heresy then it doesn’t seem unreasonable that a parish ask children about to receive the sacraments participate in some kind of parish program.
You can insist on your “right” but that doesn’t necessary make you right. After all, I have the “right” to free speech but exercising it at all times is not necessarily the right thing to do. I think some understanding should be lent to pastors who are responsible for the larger picture and see things from a different perspective.

 

[Middleman]

Are you a priest?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

My question is what happens after the pastor allows a family to homeschool in this manner and does not require the child to attend CCD when they fail the interview and the pastor has to tell the parents that the child will not be allowed to receive First Eucharist or Confirmation.

The parents will be outraged because after all, it is their right and duty to educate their child in the Faith yet what they see as the faith is not what the Catholic Church actually is.

What happens then?

Isn’t the best of both worlds to have the parents teach at home with CCD as a support, as was told to the parent in question to begin with?

While it is the parent’s right to teach their child in this manner are they so good at it that they will not miss anything?

This is one of the questions I have about homeschooling in general, are parents’ knowledgeable enough to cover all that needs to be covered, especially in the High School years.