Homeschooling will becoming forbidden in France (?)

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This day:

The law on separatism change semantic: it now becoming the law on" secularism and republican principles".

It say all. Homeschooling is considered as an attack on the republic and on secularism.

If we want to make someone hate thoses realities, that’s a good way to do it.

We also have to think on people who are working on bus, library, swimming pool and even casinos who will know submit as strict secularism principles as officials (such as no prayer or distinctive signs).

EDIT:
The project want to reinforce the principle of the law of 1905 (secularism- separation of cults and the State) with adhesion to “republican values” for association with public funding, the interdiction to make politic inside churches.
 
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JanR said:
Even today, there are neo-Nazis in Germany
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Oh come on! 0.03 percent of the population, according to the last government estimation.

They probably outnumber the worshippers of Thor, but only just.
 
It’s the absence of religion and neutrality toward them. But if the idea is push too much, yes, i agree that it can become a state religion!

There was always more or less tensions around secularism in France. Now the trend since a few decade is to target islam. Not difficult, as their culture is extra european they fit less in the society. But as a consequence it impacts everybody freedom!
And it’s not innocent! (politicians are not or should not be innocents).
 
blackforest said:
Any time a government goes crazy trying to suppress forcefully an ideology or religion, civil liberties are at stake.
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That’s my idea too and the point of this thread!

I agree with you @blackforest with your ideas developped here.

Being a devout muslin, particularly for young girl, or an working man is not easy in a country such as us. Compromises should always be made. I would not want their life.

Of course, nobody, Muslin or not, is allow to pray in a french public school. We are aware that we should not have religious book or materials in our bags. It’s not the place to discuss God or faith. Our clothes should not be religious, for eg no muslin veil. A little cross or discet sign around the neck is allowed. But not always welcome well. I wear them, so I used to wear high neck top to hide them.
To hide is something I learnt early.

In catholic school we are only allow to pray in place dedicate to ministry activities or the chapel. During the hours where there is thoses activities or a time of prayer organize. We cannot pray in classroom or in any other circunstances.
It will be easier to speak to things related to religion in a practical or positive manner in a classroom. In theory teachers should be more welcoming to universal values of religions. It depend of teachers. But they should respect that they work in a catholic school.

The muslins almost only have private schools is because of our history.
 
blackforest said:
The French government could have done what so many U.S. states do, i.e. allow homeschooling with the occasional testing and/or portfolio reviews.
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We are controlled.
we have to declare it.

The first year and after every two years, the mayor shoud see with a home visit if our conditions are compatible with the exercice of homeschooling.

All year an inspector is visiting the child. It should be explain and show to him what pedagogy and how we work. He should made some excercices to evaluate the child’s level.

We are free to choose or not a curriculum, the one of the State or a private one, to be unschooler, to use any alternative pedagogy. To have written production or not. We just have to explain our choices.

We are not allowed to create a “co opt”. it would be considered as an illegal school. It should only the parents or a tutor who should teach.

We are not bound to follow all the classroom curriculum. But for each cycle, the level (a level is a group of school years) should be reached.

If the control is not positive, a second control is done. if he is positive again, there is a school mandate that is made.

Controls are something that many homeschooling families- myself include- are afraid of. Not all inspectors are benevolents and many are complaining that re schooling orders are made without any good reasons.

Because of the Confinement reasons, I don’t have any control last year, like all the families in the area.
So I have never experience them.

the conditions of homeschooling are more restrictive now than more a decade ago. Sucessive governments have made them harder because more children were escaping the “republican school”.
 
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Maximian said:
Oh come on! 0.03 percent of the population, according to the last government estimation.
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There were newspapers article about a “nest” in the police.

I am sure that it is a very small percentage. But it’s possible that the Germans are less “complexed” than before with far-right, nationalism and nazism before because it’s a long time ago with no longer a lot of living witnesses…
 
As I said, the laws here depend on the state where you live. We had to notify our school district and test every couple of years. In theory, they could ask for the test scores, so we kept them on file. But they never requested them. That’s it. My children were enrolled in classes at a local museum, sports, and programs at the library. I cannot imagine having the State breathing down my back like they do in your country. 😦 I’m sorry to hear this news.
 
Pattylt said:
is the countryside or cities other than Paris having as many problems?
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No, I don’t think so.
It’s Paris and the Parisian area that gather 18% of the national population. The population is very diverse in their origins, religion etc.

So it’s in the parisian area that are the majority of homeschoolers and private schools.And the majority of the problems with the clandestine muslins schools. Some others big metropols can have problems too.

For eg, since 2018, in Seine Saint Denis (a poor departement of the parisian area with high proportion of Muslins) the authorities have closed around 15 clandestine schools. (sometimes it’s more or less the same people who are going in another place…).
The authories have just closed a radical muslin clandestine school in Bobigny.

That’s a proof that there is no need to make homeschooling illegal to take actions.


I live in a small populated/rural area with a high proportion of muslins. In our departement, an administrative territory that has the same geography of our diocese, I don’t find a legal muslin school and never seen in the medias any problem with a clandestine school. I have heard rumors but that’s all.

Before the law on school mandate since 3 years old, we were only 20 homeschooling families in the departement. I am sure that we are now more because of some parents want to keep their kindergarten at home and this year because of all the mess of post covid in schools. It’s probable that some parents and children have enjoyed their period of confinement and continue homeschooling.

We are far from a nest of radicalisation with homeschooling here!

It seems that there an hundred of legal muslins schools for all the country. But it is increasing.
 
Just curious if you know…
The percentage of Muslims in Paris and surrounding area and…
The percentage of Muslims countrywide?

I’m sure Paris and surrounding area is much higher but I don’t know either of the numbers. Do you?
 
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@Pattylt,

It’s difficult to have the exact numbers of the muslin percentage of population, because our country don’t have any official religious statistics. We only have extrapolations calculated on representative polls.

We are the first western Europe country for Muslin population.

Countrywide , based on the self declaration of religion, the national institute of polls, estimate there is around 4 millions of Muslins in the Metropolitan France, = 6,8% en 2008.
The Pew Research Center, estimated that this proportion was 7,5% en 2010.

The first muslin Département is an ultramarine one, Mayotte, in the Indian Ocean, 95% of Muslins.
The Département of Seine Saint Denis in the Parisian area is also very Muslin.

The muslin population is mostly urban. They represented 13 % of the population of the big metroples such as Paris and in the rest of the country (Lyon, Lille etc…). It’s more than twice as the country’s percentage. They are concentrated in poor neighborhood.

In Paris, It is estimated that 1/3 of the people of less than 24 years old are Muslins.

In France, around half of Muslins have less than 24 years old.

There is as many Muslins than Catholics in France for the 18-29 years old.

They are more religious than the rest of the population and the more they are younger, the more they are likely to follow the practices (such as food, veil, etc).

I live in a less populated area, and the city is very Muslin (there is mills) and the surrounding rural area don’t have a lot of Muslins.

source Wikipedia and

 
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Thank you…very helpful! I was mainly just curious and exact numbers would change year over year anyway.

Interesting that the Catholic/Muslim numbers are now on par! And I was aware that France is a main destination for Muslims wanting to emigrate to the EU. Do you know why that is? Of course, once a significant number are in an area, more are likely to follow as they will have Mosques, family or friends already there.
 
Pattylt said:
And I was aware that France is a main destination for Muslims wanting to emigrate to the EU. Do you know why that is?
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Possibly because these candidates are from the former french colonial Empire?
Historical links and language links.

Many want to join their family that is already in France. Familial gathering represents a big part of migrations…

It’s possible that they were aware of our social model or the presence of Muslins, but they are wrong if they hope to avoid tensions between muslin identity and the republican laws. It can be difficult and the new project law will make things worst…

There are also a lot of migrants who wants to go to UK and are blocked in the north littoral border of France as they wait an opportunity to pass. Apparently it’s because identies paper are less controlled there…
 
Now the counter attack starts.

A petition from several associations and distance learning business have been made.

I will sign and share.

I will write to my deputy and see what happens next.

I am not very optimistic on the result/outcome given to my experience. But It is a battle that need to be done, whatever the results. it’s a fight for our rights, our liberties and against the evil.
 
Hi all,

I will have share the petition with my contacts.

I have still to write to my deputy.

The problem is we will be confined again at home. It started tomorrow for 1 month!

People, politicians and medias will be focused on the confinement.

During this time, the governement will have all his time as no , no deputy or people will be focus on the defense of homeschooling. They will have what they want with no opposition. As they already said, they are not afraid of us homeschoolers, as we are so few.
 
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