Homophobia doesn't exist (Cardinal Müller)

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I liked your response, but you see? You want to use the word “agree” now, but you were all too willing to use the word HATE and lifestyle, before. Words really do have meaning, and we need to use care to be deliberate and un-ambiguous when discussing issues like this with others.
 
That’s the thing, using even “vulnerable groups” is too subjective and easily used by political forces.

The activists have ruined real discussion.

Too many weasel words, too many strawmen arguments.

I just don’t buy the ploys any more.

Over used…and always self focused.
 
Edward_H said:
That’s the thing, using even “vulnerable groups” is too subjective and easily used by political forces.

The activists have ruined real discussion.

Too many weasel words, too many strawmen arguments.

I just don’t buy the ploys any more.

Over used…and always self focused.
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There has to be a way forward. Humans are social and rational. We are made for discussion.

Do you have any ideas about how to have a meaningful discussion?
 
But also, I don’t think “activists” have anything to do with simply recognizing LGBT persons as vulnerable and often alienated — from their families and work places, from their countries and churches.

That’s a reality we should all recognize.

How or whether you respond to vulnerable and isolated persons is up to you.
 
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Too busy with my family to create artificial run in and experiences. Very unnatural, you make it sound like it’s going to the zoo or the menagerie at a circus.
 
Okayyyyy that’s a bit too literal.

I’m simply talking about the need to be acquainted with the experiences of real, everyday gay people.
 
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The way forward is for married people to live their married life very well, as if they were to be canonized saints.

A family life so demanding and happy and generous and open to life, setting an example of self-sacrifice and cheerfulness that every child would be imbued with, and they then see that married life is a great and irreplaceable good, that demands everything and yet gives every good thing, making them canonizable saints.

That’s the way…50 years of enormously well lived family life.

Then there would be fewer divorces, fewer broken homes, more 'dad’s in the life of children, more sacrfice, more example, fewer “stinginess” (less contracepting, fewer abortions).

And then maybe in 50 years the “bonus odor Christi” (the fragrance of Christ). would become so stong and attractive there would be fewer people off the trail pursuing deviant sexual expression…
 
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Good but can’t be the only way.

That path leaves out people who are not called to marriage as the Church describes it.

From a gay person who has considered the struggle for a while already, I can confidently say that the church needs to explore better ways to promote vocations for gay people and others who are restricted to single life.
 
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Edward_H said:
The way forward is for married people to live their married life very well, as if they were to be canonized saints.

A family life so demanding and happy and generous and open to life, setting an example of self-sacrifice and cheerfulness that every child would be imbued with, and they then see that married life is a great and irreplaceable good, that demands everything and yet gives every good thing, making them canonizable saints.

That’s the way…50 years of enormously well lived family life.

Then there would be fewer divorces, fewer broken homes, more 'dad’s in the life of children, more sacrfice, more example, fewer “stinginess” (less contracepting, fewer abortions).

And then maybe in 50 years the “bonus odor Christi” (the fragrance of Christ). would become so stong and attractive there would be fewer people off the trail pursuing deviant sexual expression…
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You said nothing about how to have fruitful discussions with people who struggle with SSA and feel they are not welcome in the church (in spite of the fact that the church says they are welcome)…
 
catholic1seeks said:
“Activists, activists, activists.”

Now that’s a word I hear all the time — on here.

The typical life of a gay person is not bound to the activists you see on tv.

That’s why we all need to get out and meet some LGBT people.
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Amen to that, brother. Do you know I know many gay people. Most, you wouldn’t be able to say with certainty they were gay just upon meeting them or seeing them. None have ever been “activist” in relationship to homosexual issues.

I think CAFers watch way too much tv, sometimes.
 
SSA needs to tempered and brought to serve the good, via the will, via the Sacraments, via the intellect, and other graces.
 
The church is the bride of Christ.

Everyone is called to marry Christ (which is what I think you meant).

But not everyone is called to religious life, which is what you may be implying.
 
Edward_H said:
SSA needs to tempered and brought to serve the good, via the will, via the Sacraments, via the intellect, and other graces.
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Dialogue and understanding play no role in this?
 
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One is free to live out sanctity in the world as single person, turning their work into “the Mass”, into an offering that’s unified with the Mass.

The Church doesn’t need to provide jobs for gay people or some other kind of people.

You misundertand the lay vocation…

The Church exists for families. It really does. The main thing about the Church is families. It will always be this way.
 
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I’m sorry, but as a gay person in the church, I think I’m at a place to say that the way forward for gay people is simply not fostered enough.

I mean just look at threads like this: for too long, it’s simply been about shoving moral doctrine in our faces. We know the sexual teaching of the church.

Look up Eve Tushnet, a faithful catholic lesbian, to see what I mean when we talk about vocations for gay (and single) people — and how the church needs to better make a path for these people.
 
There needs to be interior peace and serenity…at least strong movements to it.

That’s the goal of a life time.

There is no dialog about changing truths.

Our nature is the same as it ever was, and will always be.

We are a rational soul, with an intellect a will, and appetites/passions.

There is not an “easy peace” interior to us…Scripture tells us this. The Church tells us this.

You can’t live peacefully outside of the truth. You don’t get to make up your own truths, such as a gender, or a set of deviant attractions.

There will never be peace in that case. There is no dialog that will change these realities.
 
Edward_H said:
The Church exists for families. It really does. The main thing about the Church is families. It will always be this way.
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Wow, Ed. I think there are a lot of Catholics without families who would disagree with you. Where do you get your ideas from? And with regards to your attitudes toward gay people, are you hoping to erradicate homosexuality in the Church, or worldwide? I can’t really tell what your aim is.

You sound pretty hateful, for lack of a better word. I hope you aren’t, but you sure sound that way. And terribly sure of yourself, too.
 
No it really is.

Couples with out children can still live a key part of the Church…but the main thing of the Church is to spread, and the primary instrument is the family.

St Thomas Aquinas talks about love. Love has to reach its intended state of perfection…it must “go outside of itself”…it must be diffusive.

Families are the priority…the Sacraments exist for the families…even holy orders exists for the families…so we can have priests who can help families.

The Church says that families are the fundamental cell of society…notice that…fundamental cell.

As I have shown, I get my knowledge the formal teaching of the Church.

Why are you unfamilar with these concepts? That’s the better question.
 
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