Homophobic? Yes or no

[Stillness]

Every discussion of homosexuality leads to overly emotional responses and useless insults. This is going nowhere.

 

[90Domer]

That subtle jab makes you sound like a homophobe. Probably not a rabid, foaming at the mouth homophobe, just a “good ol’ days”, “put 'em in their place” homophobe.

Edit: To clarify something, I am not calling you a homophobe. However, since you specifically asked about it, my honest opinion is that statements like that make you sound like one. I’m not going to sit here and argue autism vs. SSA: who has it worse? But, since you are trying to diminish the pain and suffering that these people go through, I can only speculate that you are doing so to carry out an agenda against them. That is what would make you a homophobe.

We can be reasonably assured that your words on here are couched to come off as proper as can be. So it is entirely possible that this little hint right here belies a more venomous attitude in real life than you are portraying in cyberspace.

I grant that could come off as a jab…but then BIL should not jab at my son (calling his autistic tendencies as merely being a “spoiled brat” and calling me a bad mother). Two wrongs don’t make a right, but he went a little too far when he attacked my kid & his nephew. Is that any way to treat a kid?

There’s a difference between adhering to Church teachings and being a homophobe. Yes?

Curious, you mentioned that you refuse to talk to your BIL. Why?

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Getting back to the matter at hand.

It’s unlikely you’re going to get your MIL to sway on this issue, so you’re in for rough times. I’m also not sure it’s fair on either of you, frankly. You can raise your son however you want. For her part, it’s probably not possible to switch between viewing a relationship her son has as completely acceptable to turning around and viewing it as an abomination when your son is around. So, we’re back at square one.

Your husband is also in a terrible situation here, as he is caught between you + his faith and his mother and brother.

Have you consulted a Priest?

 

[Kensho]

Yikes, that is cold blooded. I can’t say I blame him. If you think the faith required you to do so then good job on your part, but it’s entirely predictable that he wouldn’t want anything to do with you.

When you dig up the Catechism entry on rudeness, let us know.

I’m basing this on my understanding of Miss Manners, whom I suppose is canonical in her way, and certainly secular, as the poster referred to is.

I would not have chosen to disinivIte the in-law and his friend from my wedding, but neither would I condone holding a grudge for nearly two decades.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Sadly, no everyone sees BIL and partner as a good thing. The other sibling and his wife see MIL (and previously FIL) as affirming his sin. Also, their Catholic friends and fellow parishioners also do not think affirming this relationship is a good thing. Truthfully, many parishioners called them out and spoke to the pastor as to why they were allowed to by EM’s when they so openly supported SSA. That certainly tells you that many people do not think this is a good thing. Goodness, how can any faithful Catholic think it is good to affirm a grave sin? We honestly think our father/FIL is quite possibly in Hell for these beliefs. How can anyone justify that BIL acting on his SSA is a good thing?

And yes, we do keep son away from MIL because she won’t respect boundaries. I honestly do not think we are asking too much by asking her to refrain around my son. There is never a reason to bring up BIL because he has chosen to hold a grudge.

Yeesh, so now that the whole town has decided to call up the priest because of your MIL’s sins, you’ve spoken to her about this repeatedly, and you’ve decided to keep your son away maybe now is a good time to let this drop.

She is a mother, and he is her son, and at this point the issue has been hashed out, so even if it was anyone’s business, much less that of other parishioners to start with it is no longer.

Like I said, sometimes differences are just too great. Not everyone is meant to have a close relationship with their relatives just because they are related. My mom, brother, and I are estranged from most of our extended family, because they are just awful people. My fiance and I have discussed numerous times under what circumstances we would cut people out of our lives, and sometimes it just does come down to differences that are too great.

Example: Fiance has a very devout family, but we are having a secular wedding, and since he was baptized Catholic it will be invalid. If anyone refused to show up on those grounds we would from then on we would keep them at an extreme distance and not have them around our children. Fortunately that won’t be an issue, but if it had we were fully prepared to cut people out who wouldn’t support our family. Not out of anger or spite, but because we are becoming a family, and if someone can’t support that they can’t still be treated as family, if they won’t recognize the one we are building. If they are that against us getting married, then they can’t be around our children.

Not every family disagreement or estrangement has be be out of anger, just a recognition that the differences are too big and that continuing to attempt a relationship is causing everyone more pain than anything else.

 

[Chrisl6901]

The term “homophobic” defined suggests one who fears homosexuals. It is a term the liberal media uses to villainy or belittle anyone who disagrees with them or detests their lifestyle.

I for one am not afraid of them, I just don’t like what they do, what they stand for, their influence on society and lastly and most importantly, because my Lord calls it a terrible sin.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

I’m basing this on my understanding of Miss Manners, whom I suppose is canonical in her way, and certainly secular, as the poster referred to is.

I would not have chosen to disinivIte the in-law and his friend from my wedding, but neither would I condone holding a grudge for nearly two decades.

Agreed on both points. However, I suspect, based on what the OP is saying, that the grudge is more of a continuation of that initial act of not inviting him—because she is now persisting in trying to have her MIL speak differently about the relationship, and she probably doesn’t want the brother around her son.

As unfortunate as their lack of a relationship is, it’s probably for the best if these two are going to come to blows every time they meet.

Chrisl6901:

The term “homophobic” defined suggests that is one who fears homosexuals. It is a term the liberal media uses to villainy or belittle anyone who disagrees with them or detests their lifestyle.

I for one am not afraid of them, I just don’t like what they do, what they stand for, their effects on society and lastly and most importantly, because my Lord calls it sin.

If you think the term is only used to vilify and belittle people unjustly, then let me go ahead and google “Fred Phelps” for you. That is the face of homophobia. He’s so afraid of homosexuals that he thinks they’re the cause of hurricanes and all wars, etc. That’s fear, baby. Also works for anyone that thinks civil partnerships will be the death of us all.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

You can cut and paste this definition I found in urban dictionary.

urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sit%20down%20and%20rotate

Oh my. I hope the mods delete my post if that’s how people took it! I always thought that it was in reference to those toys that kids used to have that you pull on the center thing and spin in circles. “As in, sit there, find something meaningless to do, and stay out of the way.” You know, the typical “you’re useless” stuff. I’m equally horrified and embarrassed, and I will no longer use figures of speech from the elderly.

Except maybe “You can’t get blood out of a turnip”. That one has to be innocent, right?

 

[90Domer]

Um, telling a woman to hide the relationship that her son has with his partner when she herself is supportive and loving of that relationship is rude.

You can disagree, and you can have your own rules. But when that spills into trying to dictate that kind of personal aspect of someone else’s life, it’s time to realize that you can’t change the world and focus on what you can do.

And since MIL felt it was more important to affirm her youngest son’s sin versus helping her oldest son raise his child as a faithful Catholic, then the solution is to keep a distance. I still do not think that is asking too much or her idea of the Catholic faith is WAY different than mine.

 

[Kensho]

Agreed on both points. However, I suspect, based on what the OP is saying, that the grudge is more of a continuation of that initial act of not inviting him—because she is now persisting in trying to have her MIL speak differently about the relationship, and she probably doesn’t want the brother around her son.

As unfortunate as their lack of a relationship is, it’s probably for the best if these two are going to come to blows every time they meet.

Well, that is certainly true. There are many people from my past whom I love, pray for, wish well for, remember with affection and all that good stuff, but choose not to be around because we have become so different that it would be immensely uncomfortable for both. Perhaps this is one such situation. The ideal, maybe, would be that the OP could make the decision to remain apart out of love rather than anger.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Please stop using the word “rude”. It is not relevant to this discussion. And the OP has just as much right to want to protect her son from this kind of talk as the MIl has to believe certain things about her own son.

Yes, she does. But she does not have the right to demand that her MIL change the way she speaks about her son. To dictate that to someone is intrusive, brutish, and RUDE.

 

[Kensho]

Oh my. I hope the mods delete my post if that’s how people took it! I always thought that it was in reference to those toys that kids used to have that you pull on the center thing and spin in circles. “As in, sit there, find something meaningless to do, and stay out of the way.” You know, the typical “you’re useless” stuff. I’m equally horrified and embarrassed, and I will no longer use figures of speech from the elderly.

Except maybe “You can’t get blood out of a turnip”. That one has to be innocent, right?

I think that one’s actually innocent!

I’m sorry I took such offense – and I can’t imagine any old lady ever saying such a thing, but the women who are old ladies now are so different from the women I think of as “old ladies” (mostly dead now).

 

[Kensho]

Yes, she does. But she does not have the right to demand that her MIL change the way she speaks about her son. To dictate that to someone is intrusive, brutish, and RUDE.

Stop, stop, stop! I can no longer bear to have such disagreements with someone who quotes my hero Fred Rogers. “Rude” has nothing to do with it. It’s a different way of looking at the world, and the OP is not on here to learn how to use which fork to use or how long after a wedding it is acceptable to write a thank-you note. She is trying to raise a Catholic child. Please consider this.

 

[90Domer]

Then that’s the issue with your BIL, and that’s something that you need to take up with him, and that’s a completely different issue entirely. But the issue that you posted about is the fact that your MIL lets them share a bed and calls him and his partner married. And that’s the issue I’m speaking about.

Frankly, I wouldn’t want you in my life either if you snubbed me, my partner, and the family we are like that. But once again, that’s between you and BIL. Sometimes differences are just too great.

Actually, MIL did the ultimate snub by not attending our kid’s First Communion. But you know what? It is her loss, not ours or my son’s.

Amd you are forgetting that I told her we could not stay under her roof if 2 men were sharing the same bed. She didn’t like that we wouldn’t be all together, but bearing witness to scandal is far worse than her feelings. Can you tell we are not sentimentalists?

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I think that one’s actually innocent!

I’m sorry I took such offense – and I can’t imagine any old lady ever saying such a thing, but the women who are old ladies now are so different from the women I think of as “old ladies” (mostly dead now).

Yeah, the old church ladies I knew are long gone too. Equal parts sweetness and spunk. They don’t make old ladies like they used to. (Well, you can still find them, but you know what I mean!)

I actually texted my mom to ask what she thought it meant, and her definition was the same as mine.

Once again, I’m so sorry.

Sooooooooooo…let me rephrase. If my DIL tried to tell me how to talk about my son I would tell her to take a hike.

 

[Chrisl6901]

If you think the term is only used to vilify and belittle people unjustly, then let me go ahead and google “Fred Phelps” for you. That is the face of homophobia. He’s so afraid of homosexuals that he thinks they’re the cause of hurricanes and all wars, etc. That’s fear, baby. Also works for anyone that thinks civil partnerships will be the death of us all.

I’m aware of Mr. Phelps and his “organization”. He is an extreme example that doesn’t apply to most. There is a difference between homophobia and sheer insanity.

BTW… hasn’t God been known to cast judgment on whole peoples and nations, indeed the whole planet, for their sins? I think you’ll find that to be true from scripture.

Just something to think about.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Actually, MIL did the ultimate snub by not attending our kid’s First Communion. But you know what? It is her loss, not ours or my son’s.

Amd you are forgetting that I told her we could not stay under her roof if 2 men were sharing the same bed. She didn’t like that we wouldn’t be all together, but bearing witness to scandal is far worse than her feelings. Can you tell we are not sentimentalists?

The non-invite to the wedding was less of a snub than then the non-attendance at a baptism, which presumably followed the wedding in chronological order? That’s a rather transparent attempt at deflection, wouldn’t you say?

 

[Kensho]

Yeah, the old church ladies I knew are long gone too. Equal parts sweetness and spunk. They don’t make old ladies like they used to. (Well, you can still find them, but you know what I mean!)

I actually texted my mom to ask what she thought it meant, and her definition was the same as mine.

Once again, I’m so sorry.

Sooooooooooo…let me rephrase. If my DIL tried to tell me how to talk about my son I would tell her to take a hike.

Maybe those old ladies didn’t know what the phrase meant, either! I wonder where they learned it?

God bless, y’all. I’m going to bed.

 

[90Domer]

Yikes, that is cold blooded. I can’t say I blame him. If you think the faith required you to do so then good job on your part, but it’s entirely predictable that he wouldn’t want anything to do with you.

When you dig up the Catechism entry on rudeness, let us know.

Do you know the definition of scandal? Well, neither I or my husband will entertain it. At a highly Catholic and orthodox wedding performed by my highly orthodox uncle and another professor with highly orthodox friends and relatives, having an openly SSA BIL and his partner would cause scandal by allowing people to think that we accept and affirm that lifestyle.

 

[90Domer]

I had never heard “sit and rotate” before today, but I can only guess what it means…

Yeah, and it’s pretty darn nasty too, as I just learned.