"homosexual person" myth or Truth

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Peter_J said:
Actually jjr9 only posted 47 times on this thread (which is still a lot of course). Other posters have contributed hundreds of posts that attempt to help jjr9, but I don’t see jjr changing his views. So I have to wonder what jjr has done to earn himself so much attention. Hmmm.
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Label the Church teachers of falsehoods, perhaps?
 
jjr9 said:
I understand that a number of people would like me to go away and not bother them. To them I say if
you are offended by what you know you will hear please read no further. I understand that if one or
more complain this thread will be removed or locked I ask that someone with no fault to cast the first
complaint.

For reason I do not understand I have been shunned by my Bishop, the Congregation for the Doctrine of
the Faith(CDF) and the Apostolic Signatura. I consulted a canon lawyer who informed me that if I feel the
Apostolic Signatura has not properly responded to my concern I only have recourse to the Holy Father. I
asked my Bishop if he would send my appeal to Pope Francis, my Bishop declined but was kind and
supplied a mailing address. I have sent my appeal several times to Pope Francis and conclude he has not
received it. I asked my Bishop again if he would send my appeal through our Diocese; my Bishop said
“The Roman Catholic Diocese of … is not able to forward your(my) communication”. I let my Bishop
know I believe his claim untrue; I believe he is not willing to but is able to forward my communication
and have heard nothing further.

This is not complicated I understand Same Sex Attraction (SSA) is real a temptation, sinful if dwelled on,
and SS behavior real a sin. What I don’t understand is why the Magisterium has accepted the concept of
a “homosexual person”. I believe the “homosexual person” a myth presented by an LGBT orthodoxy that
demands acceptance of their view with no tolerance of dissent. As far as I know before 1993 the Church
had no definition for a “homosexual person”. I believe for good reason.

Unfortunately the Magisterium claims that the “homosexual person” is real; the Magisterium defines
“Homosexuality” in CCC 2357:

“Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or
predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex.”

I believe here the Magisterium is defining two categories of “homosexual person” that the Magisterium
references later in CCC 2359. I believe the Church is saying some “homosexual persons” have an
exclusive SSA and some “homosexual persons” have a predominant SSA. For me the predominant
“homosexual person” is a bit irrational as this person would have SSA and OSA.

I have no idea what the Magisterium has in mind by accepting the myth of the “homosexual person” as
real. I believe it comes from the “stream of corruption” and “gay lobby” that Pope Francis referenced at
one point. I understand that Pope Francis has also said “if someone is gay who am I to judge” and
supports this section of the CCC. I don’t understand why. I hope at some point the Holy Father will have
time to sort this all out.

If someone has a truly right and just reason to believe the “homosexual person” real I would like to hear
it. I do not believe it exists. My intent is to make this an issue that the Magisterium cannot continue to
ignore. Perhaps your Bishop could be more helpful in resolving this issue than mine has. If not perhaps
you could be more successful, in bring this issue to the public square, so the Magisterium is compelled
to correct it’s error than I have been.

God bless
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So, what I’m getting from this is you believe homosexuality is a choice and that no one is truly homosexual. I find it odd that someone would be so bothered by semantics that they would write the Pope on multiple occasions. 🤷 I’d pose you a question…why would someone choose a homosexual lifestyle (or in some cases commit suicide over the struggle of SSA and/or being outed) if being a homosexual person was not a real thing? “Homosexual person” simply refers to someone who has SSA (and yes SSA/OSA in combination is a thing…they call it bisexuality). No one in the Church is saying acting on a homosexual lifestyle is okay, but it is ridiculous to imply that homosexual people do not truly exist.
 
o_mlly said:
Do you have a particular paragraph(s) of the CCC that you think supports your idea that a sinful orientation is permissible?
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I spoke to a Priest about this and here is how he explained it to me. Think of a anyone who has a disorder. Its kind of like we were wired wrong somehow. We all have crosses to bear in our life.

Did God make us that way, and give us that cross to carry? We do not know. But what we know is that some crosses are much harder to carry then others.

So while we agree that you cannot control on how you feel, you can control how you react on it.

Its the same as I am married. I go out and meet another guy and he wants to have an affair. We all meet others who we have a sexual desire for at times. You cannot help it, there are people who do that to you.

But the point is there is really no difference. If we had sex out of marriage rather same sex or male and female. It is the same sin. Adultery sex outside of marriage.
Back to the point, as much as I love my husband there are times I see a Man and think wow. Brody on the tyler perry series. Too close to home. He’s hot I can’t help it. It is the same for the people who are attracted to same sex.

You cannot control the desires you have, but you can control the desire to react on them. I am lucky because I desire Men and have one, and can satisfy that desire. But it does not mean I cannot be attracted to other men sometimes.

But back to the point I have sexual desire for men and I have my husband and I am content. But Gay people cannot react on that desire for the same sex no matter who they are. Because they cannot be married in the RCC ever, and the church does not accept the marriage.

So we are taught to pray for them, respect them. Love then and welcome them to Church,
but we cannot accept their sin. And thank God that is a cross we do not have to carry.

Every normal man and women, think of your desires for the opposite sex, and how would you feel if it was forbidden. Pray for them. They cannot help how they feel. and Thank God we do not have that cross to carry.
 
jjr9 said:
I understand that a number of people would like me to go away and not bother them. To them I say if
you are offended by what you know you will hear please read no further. I understand that if one or
more complain this thread will be removed or locked I ask that someone with no fault to cast the first
complaint.

For reason I do not understand I have been shunned by my Bishop, the Congregation for the Doctrine of
the Faith(CDF) and the Apostolic Signatura. I consulted a canon lawyer who informed me that if I feel the
Apostolic Signatura has not properly responded to my concern I only have recourse to the Holy Father. I
asked my Bishop if he would send my appeal to Pope Francis, my Bishop declined but was kind and
supplied a mailing address. I have sent my appeal several times to Pope Francis and conclude he has not
received it. I asked my Bishop again if he would send my appeal through our Diocese; my Bishop said
“The Roman Catholic Diocese of … is not able to forward your(my) communication”. I let my Bishop
know I believe his claim untrue; I believe he is not willing to but is able to forward my communication
and have heard nothing further.

This is not complicated I understand Same Sex Attraction (SSA) is real a temptation, sinful if dwelled on,
and SS behavior real a sin. What I don’t understand is why the Magisterium has accepted the concept of
a “homosexual person”. I believe the “homosexual person” a myth presented by an LGBT orthodoxy that
demands acceptance of their view with no tolerance of dissent. As far as I know before 1993 the Church:)
had no definition for a “homosexual person”. I believe for good reason.

Unfortunately the Magisterium claims that the “homosexual person” is real; the Magisterium defines
“Homosexuality” in CCC 2357:

“Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or
predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex.”

I believe here the Magisterium is defining two categories of “homosexual person” that the Magisterium
references later in CCC 2359. I believe the Church is saying some “homosexual persons” have an
exclusive SSA and some “homosexual persons” have a predominant SSA. For me the predominant
“homosexual person” is a bit irrational as this person would have SSA and OSA.

I have no idea what the Magisterium has in mind by accepting the myth of the “homosexual person” as
real. I believe it comes from the “stream of corruption” and “gay lobby” that Pope Francis referenced at
one point. I understand that Pope Francis has also said “if someone is gay who am I to judge” and
supports this section of the CCC. I don’t understand why. I hope at some point the Holy Father will have
time to sort this all out.

If someone has a truly right and just reason to believe the “homosexual person” real I would like to hear
it. I do not believe it exists. My intent is to make this an issue that the Magisterium cannot continue to
ignore. Perhaps your Bishop could be more helpful in resolving this issue than mine has. If not perhaps
you could be more successful, in bring this issue to the public square, so the Magisterium is compelled
to correct it’s error than I have been.

God bless
Click to expand...
I feel the Church defined it quite well. They believe it is a Disorder. Rather is was a person who was lets say born with the desire, or say a person who had some kind of tragedy with the opposite sex, maybe horrible abuse etc.

Alot of people who have been horribly raped abused by the opposite sex could be scared for life to every have a normal relationship with the opposite sex.

While others never experienced the horrible tragedy but still desire the opposite sex with no physical or mental abuse.

The point is the Pope said while we have a duty to help one another and let them know what a sin is and is not. We cannot ever condemn them to hell for the sins they commit. That is the job of God. I believe you truly do not understand what he said.

Because he never condemns another to hell no true Catholic ever would or should, we do condemn sin.
 
WingsOfEagles said:
So, what I’m getting from this is you believe homosexuality is a choice and that no one is truly homosexual. I find it odd that someone would be so bothered by semantics that they would write the Pope on multiple occasions. 🤷
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I believe no one has an exclusive SSA and I believe the Magisterium has no authority to present what
is false as true in the name of the Lord’s Church. I believe all members of the Church have an obligation
to the Lord to point out an error by the Magisterium if we see one and the Magisterium has an obligation
to the Lord to show us our misunderstanding or correct the error.
WingsOfEagles said:
I’d pose you a question…why would someone choose a homosexual lifestyle (or in some cases commit suicide over the struggle of SSA and/or being outed) if being a homosexual person was not a real thing?
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I can not tell you what brings any individual to where they are on their path, hopefully to Eternal Life.

I believe St Paul states quite clearly what brings us all to sin
Rom 1:25:
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie
WingsOfEagles said:
“Homosexual person” simply refers to someone who has SSA (and yes SSA/OSA in combination is a thing…they call it bisexuality). No one in the Church is saying acting on a homosexual lifestyle is okay, but it is ridiculous to imply that homosexual people do not truly exist.
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I believe the only self identified type of person the Magisterium recognizes is the “homosexual person” I believe
this is a path the Magisterium should never have started on and needs to renounce.

God bless
 
rinnie said:
I feel the Church defined it quite well. They believe it is a Disorder. Rather is was a person who was lets say born with the desire, or say a person who had some kind of tragedy with the opposite sex, maybe horrible abuse etc.
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The Magisterium claims a group of people experience an exclusive SSA. I believe no one experiences an exclusive
SSA. Do you have a truly right and just reason to believe anyone experiences an exclusive SSA?
rinnie said:
Alot of people who have been horribly raped abused by the opposite sex could be scared for life to every have a normal relationship with the opposite sex.

While others never experienced the horrible tragedy but still desire the opposite sex with no physical or mental abuse.

The point is the Pope said while we have a duty to help one another and let them know what a sin is and is not. We cannot ever condemn them to hell for the sins they commit. That is the job of God. I believe you truly do not understand what he said.

Because he never condemns another to hell no true Catholic ever would or should, we do condemn sin.
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Please don’t get me wrong I understand that many people struggle with SSA and I only wish them well and Pray for
them. I believe that the Magisterium is laying a stumbling block on their path to Eternal Life by encouraging them to
believe they are something that doesn’t exist the mythical “homosexual person”.

God bless
 
jjr9 said:
I believe that the Magisterium is laying a stumbling block on their path to Eternal Life by encouraging them to
believe they are something that doesn’t exist the mythical “homosexual person”.
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And the Magisterium has done no such thing.
jjr9 said:
I believe the Magisterium has no authority to present what
is false as true in the name of the Lord’s Church.
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Again the Magisterium of the Catholic Church is NOT doing that!

Your skipping again over posts that explain that your premise is not correct.

Why?

Your believing the Magisterium is teaching something that the Magisterium is* not* teaching.

The Magisterium is* not *teaching what you suggest.

The Magisterium is teaching about morality…

Not about claims of exclusive SSA.
 
Bookcat said:
…Your skipping again over posts that explain that your premise is not correct.
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Observing the large number of posts to which jjr9 does not respond is instructive. Holding on to his thesis is more important to him than grasping the truth.
 
jjr9 said:
The Magisterium claims a group of people experience an exclusive SSA. I believe no one experiences an exclusive
SSA. Do you have a truly right and just reason to believe anyone experiences an exclusive SSA?

Please don’t get me wrong I understand that many people struggle with SSA and I only wish them well and Pray for
them. I believe that the Magisterium is laying a stumbling block on their path to Eternal Life by encouraging them to
believe they are something that doesn’t exist the mythical “homosexual person”.

God bless
Click to expand...
Well to begin with using common sense if a SSA did not exist you would not have homosexual people.
 
SSA. Do you have a truly right and just reason to believe anyone experiences an exclusive SSA?

Please don’t get me wrong I understand that many people struggle with SSA and I only wish them well and Pray for
them. I believe that the Magisterium is laying a stumbling block on their path to Eternal Life by encouraging them to
believe they are something that doesn’t exist the mythical “homosexual person”.

God bless

No I do not believe you understand what the Church teaches. It said It is true if it is not willed it is not a sin itself. But it must be considered a Severe Moral Disorder.

So what are you saying that you disagree that the severe moral disorder does not exist?
 
jjr9 said:
Thank you for this I have no objection to these types of “qualifiers”. I don’t believe you can cite any
type of person the Magisterium links to a specific temptation other that the “homosexual person”.

The fundamental issue here is whether the Magisterium has authority to present what is false as true
in the name of the Lord’s Church as it has by presenting the mythical “homosexual person” as real.
Do you have a truly right and just reason to believe the “homosexual person” real?

God bless
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the Church said the Homosexual Person exists BECAUSE of a SEVERE MORAL DISTORTION. That could be the only reason. So all I can see is this person denies the teaching of the Church that this order does indeed exist. 🤷
 
rinnie said:
SSA. Do you have a truly right and just reason to believe anyone experiences an exclusive SSA?

Please don’t get me wrong I understand that many people struggle with SSA and I only wish them well and Pray for
them. I believe that the Magisterium is laying a stumbling block on their path to Eternal Life by encouraging them to
believe they are something that doesn’t exist the mythical “homosexual person”.

God bless
No I do not believe you understand what the Church teaches. It said It is true if it is not willed it is not a sin itself. But it must be considered a Severe Moral Disorder.

So what are you saying that you disagree that the severe moral disorder does not exist?
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It is not clear to me what you are saying here. Can you rephrase?

God bless
 
jjr9 said:
I believe no one has exclusive SSA, that they are incapable of OSA.

God bless
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Then you are saying that you disagree that a person can have a severe moral disorder. I disagree with you completely. Because the Church teaches if a person has that, a SSA can exist.
 
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