W
whatevergirl
Guest
Ok–you might have answered my last post.
Thank you.
- Status
Thank you.
S
St_Aloysius
Guest
A homosexual priest who lives a celibate lifestyle and stands firm in the Church’s teachings concerning SSA–why deny such a one the ability to be ordained?
The generalization that all homosexuals are narcissisists is completely unfounded. You say, “Because they focus so much on their sexuality, they’re narcissisists.” Maybe the reason we focus on it so much is because we feel isolated or hated at times because of it. At my school, terms such as “gay” and “f****t” and “queer” are common slurs. Maybe it’s simply that we’re dealing with this every day and it tends to get to you after a while.
I could just as easily argue using your logic that African Americans are narcissisists because they are compaigning against prejudice and like to talk about their skin tone a lot. Maybe in a world where people hate because of differences, this stuff just cuts a little deeper than we typically realize.
Another rebuttal was that putting a homosexual priest in close proximity with other males makes for a serious hindrance, but I look at my parish priests, and I find it hard to agree. One is in his eighties, another in his thirties or fourties, another still in his early twenties, representing caucasian, Indian, and African descent respectively. I can hardly see any homosexual dropped into such an environment feeling tempted.
Even in cases where one is in the presence of young, attractive male priests and living in close quarters, can I point out that, honestly, living that close to anyone for that long tends to wear away at such attractions. And if not, a priest truly desiring to live celibately would confess this or request new quartering. I would consider one of my best friends an incredibly attractive guy, but his zeal for God, his unflinching devotion, as well as my closeness to him, is what ultimately, I think, makes it impossible for me to think of him as anything but a brother.
It just seems illogical to me to deny celibate, chaste men with homosexual inclinations the priesthood.
The generalization that all homosexuals are narcissisists is completely unfounded. You say, “Because they focus so much on their sexuality, they’re narcissisists.” Maybe the reason we focus on it so much is because we feel isolated or hated at times because of it. At my school, terms such as “gay” and “f****t” and “queer” are common slurs. Maybe it’s simply that we’re dealing with this every day and it tends to get to you after a while.
I could just as easily argue using your logic that African Americans are narcissisists because they are compaigning against prejudice and like to talk about their skin tone a lot. Maybe in a world where people hate because of differences, this stuff just cuts a little deeper than we typically realize.
Another rebuttal was that putting a homosexual priest in close proximity with other males makes for a serious hindrance, but I look at my parish priests, and I find it hard to agree. One is in his eighties, another in his thirties or fourties, another still in his early twenties, representing caucasian, Indian, and African descent respectively. I can hardly see any homosexual dropped into such an environment feeling tempted.
Even in cases where one is in the presence of young, attractive male priests and living in close quarters, can I point out that, honestly, living that close to anyone for that long tends to wear away at such attractions. And if not, a priest truly desiring to live celibately would confess this or request new quartering. I would consider one of my best friends an incredibly attractive guy, but his zeal for God, his unflinching devotion, as well as my closeness to him, is what ultimately, I think, makes it impossible for me to think of him as anything but a brother.
It just seems illogical to me to deny celibate, chaste men with homosexual inclinations the priesthood.
J
JesuitLoyola
Guest
Even with the best intentions, it is just not a good position to be in for someone who will be tempted. After all the Nuns and Sisters must live chaste, but they are not allowed to live and serve in close quarters with men. Why put people in a position where they would be tempted regardless of their ideals. Above all, it is the church’s stance and that is something that should garner our respect in itself, the Holy Father is only enforcing something that has been around, in that fact it is safe to say that he has good reasons simply because as the Holy See, he knows what he is doing, and knows (IMO) the will of God. Honestly, I think the priesthood’s principles of chaste men, regardless of sexual orientation, would justify having homosexual priests. It sounds good on paper, but how well would it work out? Better yet, how has it worked out thus far?
J
JesuitLoyola
Guest
Also, I would like to point out, St_Aloysius, that I have seen your other posts in the forums elsewhere and I believe you are sincere about becoming a priest and that your call is completely valid in your heart. I’m praying for you brother, 
, you are an inspiration and a great example to all young people and I pray that you would receive many blessings in all that you do in life!
, you are an inspiration and a great example to all young people and I pray that you would receive many blessings in all that you do in life!
I
iviking
Guest
Well, I have given the quote before where a Pope says that such is the rule, there is also more recent letters on this subject. They are not allowed. If God truly is calling you to the Priesthood He wants you to not think of yourself as a bisexual but “become” a heterosexual first.
The statistics show that having homosexuals in the Priesthood is dangerous, especially for the Children. There have been all to many incidents with molestation, enough is enough.
We as Catholics must obey what the Church teaches, and it teaches that Homosexuals are not to study in a seminary. It also teaches that God created Man and wife, and that homosexual behavior is a mortal sin
B
bpbasilphx
Guest
Is there any one of us who gets to choose his temptations?
M
mercygate
Guest
I believe that to some extent we DO choose our temptations. To the extent that we do not, we are wise to avoid near occasions of sin and we mustn’t whine that it is “unfair.”
P
puzzleannie
Guest
since he was not imposing a new discipline, but restating the unchanging 2000 year old prohibition, yes he was wise and he made a necessary statement. In any case, neither my opinion nor yours carries any weight or has value, he is the pope, we are not.
T
TMC
Guest
Men who experience same sex attraction are not barred from the priesthood, although they are given more scrutiny than men who are not SSA. They must demonstrate that they can overcome their “tendencies” for three years before ordination.
V
vocatio
Guest
Aloysius
You ask why…I’ll tell you why not
accus.us/
romancatholicwomenpriests.org
Just to name 2 sites justifying same sex relationships and married same sex priest/priestwomen. Not to mention the priests from the sex scandals. How many men fell away from their vocations for having to enter into formation with men with sinful inclinations of a very illicit nature? It’s scandalous for the Church to approve this in the first place.
I’ve read the most recent requirements and there are limitations placed on it and may very in practice from diocese to dioces. Make one wrong step, get caught, and you will get caught or at least raise eyebrows. If someone tries to recruit my son…God have mercy on my soul.
I will not let this screwed up generation screw up my kids. Thankfully after I overreact I have the confessional.
You ask why…I’ll tell you why not
accus.us/
romancatholicwomenpriests.org
Just to name 2 sites justifying same sex relationships and married same sex priest/priestwomen. Not to mention the priests from the sex scandals. How many men fell away from their vocations for having to enter into formation with men with sinful inclinations of a very illicit nature? It’s scandalous for the Church to approve this in the first place.
I’ve read the most recent requirements and there are limitations placed on it and may very in practice from diocese to dioces. Make one wrong step, get caught, and you will get caught or at least raise eyebrows. If someone tries to recruit my son…God have mercy on my soul.
I will not let this screwed up generation screw up my kids. Thankfully after I overreact I have the confessional.
D
debraran
Guest
Fr. Mychal who died rescuing people from 911 was known to be gay and a recovering alcoholic. He was a good priest, led a chaste life and was devoted to his people. This was one of many articles and books:
nymag.com/nymetro/news/sept11/features/5372/
There was a wonderful book about him. This was part of someones review:
Former FDNY commissioner Tom Von Essen publicly confirmed that Fr. Judge had “come out” to him as gay several years before 9/11, and they had discussed this many times. Von Essen recently reaffirmed this, citing Judge as one reason why the Vatican should not purge good, celibate gay priests.
Then other close friends, including Fr. Brian Carroll, Fr. John McNeill, Fr. Bernard Lynch, and other priests, also confirmed that Mychal had identified himself to them as a gay person. (Note: I use gay and homosexual interchangeably here to describe orientation only; by all accounts he was celibate).
These are many of Mychal’s closest friends bearing witness to a truth he told them about himself.
Then Michael Ford’s biography was released in late 2002 (”Father Mychal Judge: An Authentic American Hero”: Paulist Press). In it, Judge is quoted many times as acknowledging his orientation. For example, “Look at who we are as gay people at this moment in history, being a gift for the church, being agents of change in both church and society.” Mychal also told friends that he “would not exclude or gloss over” this aspect of his life when he wrote own autobiography.
I hadn’t intended on this 9/11 anniversary to address this aspect of Mychal’s life. But since you brought it up and claimed that “he never made an issue of his sexuality,” I have to present these facts to the contrary.
Most important in this discussion: in his intimate relationship with Christ, Mychal did not have a conflict with his being gay. He accepted that this was how God made him — like being left-handed. He had grown beyond the toxic shame of biblical fundamentalism, and he reported directly to a Higher Authority than Rome.
Yes, Mychal preached the love of JESUS, nothing more, nothing less. And his first-hand knowledge of Jesus’ love is much greater than most of us will ever achieve in this lifetime.
nymag.com/nymetro/news/sept11/features/5372/
There was a wonderful book about him. This was part of someones review:
Former FDNY commissioner Tom Von Essen publicly confirmed that Fr. Judge had “come out” to him as gay several years before 9/11, and they had discussed this many times. Von Essen recently reaffirmed this, citing Judge as one reason why the Vatican should not purge good, celibate gay priests.
Then other close friends, including Fr. Brian Carroll, Fr. John McNeill, Fr. Bernard Lynch, and other priests, also confirmed that Mychal had identified himself to them as a gay person. (Note: I use gay and homosexual interchangeably here to describe orientation only; by all accounts he was celibate).
These are many of Mychal’s closest friends bearing witness to a truth he told them about himself.
Then Michael Ford’s biography was released in late 2002 (”Father Mychal Judge: An Authentic American Hero”: Paulist Press). In it, Judge is quoted many times as acknowledging his orientation. For example, “Look at who we are as gay people at this moment in history, being a gift for the church, being agents of change in both church and society.” Mychal also told friends that he “would not exclude or gloss over” this aspect of his life when he wrote own autobiography.
I hadn’t intended on this 9/11 anniversary to address this aspect of Mychal’s life. But since you brought it up and claimed that “he never made an issue of his sexuality,” I have to present these facts to the contrary.
Most important in this discussion: in his intimate relationship with Christ, Mychal did not have a conflict with his being gay. He accepted that this was how God made him — like being left-handed. He had grown beyond the toxic shame of biblical fundamentalism, and he reported directly to a Higher Authority than Rome.
Yes, Mychal preached the love of JESUS, nothing more, nothing less. And his first-hand knowledge of Jesus’ love is much greater than most of us will ever achieve in this lifetime.
E
estesbob
Guest
Are you suggesting that the Chrch, having suffered great damage because of homosexual priests, should reject their policy on homosexual Priests because one homosexual priest was a nice guy and did good things for the Chruch?
D
debraran
Guest
No, I’m saying the church is filled with “quiet” homosexual priests that aren’t sick with pedophilia or whatever term they have for different age groups. To say homosexuals all attack young boys is silly. I’ve known many that are better Christians than some “straight” and can live good, holy, chaste lives.
Sick people, ones that crave children or want to over-power youth with their unnatural desires, go into jobs like religious, youth leaders, teachers, etc. You can’t stop that. Look how many slipped by. And I’m sure this good priest is one of many.
If it makes the church feel better to do that, fine, but just as many will lie and get in…other precautions have to be in place.
Sick people, ones that crave children or want to over-power youth with their unnatural desires, go into jobs like religious, youth leaders, teachers, etc. You can’t stop that. Look how many slipped by. And I’m sure this good priest is one of many.
If it makes the church feel better to do that, fine, but just as many will lie and get in…other precautions have to be in place.
S
St_Aloysius
Guest
Father Mychal’s actions at 9/11 inspired me so much that I wrote about him as a topic of essay for my Literature class. Only later did I find out about his sexual orientation. Near as I could tell, he strived for understanding and peace between those of different orientations, inspiring them to heed God’s call for their own lives.
He strikes me, from what little I know, as a very saintly man who is living proof that homosexual priests can exist within Church walls and administer and teach and do so well and in a most exemplary manner.
To the poster that asked if he is legitimate support for homosexual priests, and I would say in response: “ROGER!” If we could aspire to his level of excellence as a priest of God, there should be no reason why we couldn’t faithfully serve.
Stipulations and high standards for ordination are good… but excluding homosexual men from their right to be godly priests and deacons because of the sins of a few is not justified by any stretch of the imagination.
He strikes me, from what little I know, as a very saintly man who is living proof that homosexual priests can exist within Church walls and administer and teach and do so well and in a most exemplary manner.
To the poster that asked if he is legitimate support for homosexual priests, and I would say in response: “ROGER!” If we could aspire to his level of excellence as a priest of God, there should be no reason why we couldn’t faithfully serve.
Stipulations and high standards for ordination are good… but excluding homosexual men from their right to be godly priests and deacons because of the sins of a few is not justified by any stretch of the imagination.
I
iviking
Guest
We must obey what the Church teaches. Ergo a homosexual can not study to become a Priest. No one have a “right” to become a Priest, it is a gift God gives to some men.
D
debraran
Guest
What if the homosexual man does feel a call to the vocaton of the priesthood? As I’ve said, many hidden homosexual men (and women) have gone into the religious life and gave their lives to God. No one wears a scarlet “H” or something on their collar. Many people that have leanings that way aren’t obvious. Please don’t use the sterotypes to say who is straight or not. If someone told you some of the loved priests on EWTN were gay, would you love them less if they didn’t act on their feelings?
My husband was a police officer for 26 years, working with and studying pediphiles and their ilk for part of it. They like the opposite sex and same sex, depending on their desires, Men or women that do these things aren’t gay or straight, they have an illness that can’t be cured. To take a small percentage of men or women and vilify them by saying they are gay and evil is silly. It’s just like saying all priests are altar boy chasers because 5% did it. Everyone wants a quick fix, but there isn’t one. The church has had homosexual priests forever but people that want to rape children are sick, not just homosexual, and they knew that going into the seminary. No other profession, teacher, coach, camp counselor would give them the reverence and opportunity to do these thing as the priesthood used too. I think it will lessen because kids are more savvy, priests aren’t given a “pass” anymore and parishioners would complain more today than years ago…that’s another reason it went on so long. I feel sorry and pray for the priests today, the ones that were dirty sullied them, the ones that steal from their parish’s sully them, every bad deed reflects on them, but I think they will survive and go on, because the weeds will get filtered out, but not with a witch hunt.
My husband was a police officer for 26 years, working with and studying pediphiles and their ilk for part of it. They like the opposite sex and same sex, depending on their desires, Men or women that do these things aren’t gay or straight, they have an illness that can’t be cured. To take a small percentage of men or women and vilify them by saying they are gay and evil is silly. It’s just like saying all priests are altar boy chasers because 5% did it. Everyone wants a quick fix, but there isn’t one. The church has had homosexual priests forever but people that want to rape children are sick, not just homosexual, and they knew that going into the seminary. No other profession, teacher, coach, camp counselor would give them the reverence and opportunity to do these thing as the priesthood used too. I think it will lessen because kids are more savvy, priests aren’t given a “pass” anymore and parishioners would complain more today than years ago…that’s another reason it went on so long. I feel sorry and pray for the priests today, the ones that were dirty sullied them, the ones that steal from their parish’s sully them, every bad deed reflects on them, but I think they will survive and go on, because the weeds will get filtered out, but not with a witch hunt.
D
debraran
Guest
detnews.com/2005/editorial/0510/03/A09-334776.htm
This artcle was upsetting, but presses on some those issues too.
This artcle was upsetting, but presses on some those issues too.
E
estesbob
Guest
88% in the molestations by Catholic priests in America were homosexual rape of post-pubesecent boys. The fact that some heterosexual priests were involved some molestations simply cannot undo this statistic. The fact that some homosexual priests did not molest negligent if they continued to allow homosexuals to be Priests.
D
debraran
Guest
But in many studies, they try to stress that it isn’t homosexuals that do this…pedophiles or anyone that wants children or kids in puberty have an illness and that’s ALL they do. Homosexual men and women usually have relationships that are with people that are their age or as adults…they don’t want children, they don’t consistently seek out the same. Most function in society just fine, they aren’t the fanatic types you see on TV or parades. To degrade being gay with this scandal isn’t right. If the priests were gay, they would, as many have, had relationships with consenting adults, not rape kids or teens or be chaste.
E
estesbob
Guest
Only a very,very small number of the moletations were pediophilc. As I said the nearly 90% were perpetauted by Homosexual Priests. The Church did not enforce their policy of not allowing homosexuls in the Priesthood starting the mid 60s and we have paid a terrible, terrible price for that. We must not repeat it and we must not buckle under to a culture that says we are degrading homosexuals by poinitng out the truth
- Status