Homosexuality and God's plan for those who are gay

[catholic1seeks]

I know “gay” is a tricky word on CAF, but I use it as most people my age generaly use it: having (exclusive or dominant) same-sex attraction. So that first.

I just had a thought I’ve never considered before. It would be one thing, perhaps more easily understood, to say that those who are not attracted to members of the opposite sex just ought not get married. Marriage is no requirement - certainly no requirement for happiness or even ultimate fulfillment in Heaven. So no real loss there! If there is no desire for that kind of relationship with the opposite sex, there is no real harm.

However, with the case of homosexual persons, it’s not just a lack of attraction or ability to relate in certain ways to the opposite sex. It’s that; but it is, additionally, the deep desires and wishes to be in relationship with someone of the same sex. In other words, the same attractions, desires, and human feelings for a relationship are present for a gay person. Just not the right person… In the view of the Catholic Church.

This way of thinking makes me wonder more as to what God’s plan is for the gay person. For, to restate quickly, the gay person does not only have a lack of desire and feelings to marry someone (of the opposite sex). They have, in addition, the added state of desiring and wanting to be in union with someone of the same sex.

 

[KildareBrigid]

Every person in this world has their own cross to bear. We all also have sexual temptations that we need to resist. While I have empathy and pray for people with homosexual attraction, I do not think that they experience a “greater” amount of suffering compared to other people. However I do think that since homosexuality is such a hot topic in our society, they have to deal with a lot of secular minds and resources which aim to encourage them to sin (as well as be proud of it). That has got to be really rough.

I will say whether or not a person who has homosexual attractions should get married to someone of the opposite gender is a case by case basis. As long as they are committed to living their marriage in a way that the Church approves, it is between the couple and their Priest. You are correct though in saying that they could just choose to not get married. There is that option for people with homosexual and heterosexual attractions.

There is no way to know what God’s plan is for people who are gay. Everyone is different and God has different plans for each one of them. I pray that all people who have homosexuality as a cross to bear turns their hearts towards God and asks him for help. He is ready!

 

[AKDee]

My understanding on Church teaching is that SSA is considered disordered, but not sinful. The sin is in acting on it, in the same fashion as it is sinful for a heterosexual person to have sex outside of marriage. People with SSA are called to live a life of chastity.

This is an area I struggle with as well, in terms of why God allows this to happen. I guess we will have to trust that He has a plan.

 

[Rau]

…[What is God’s plan] for the gay person. For, to restate quickly, the gay person does not only have a lack of desire and feelings to marry someone (of the opposite sex). They have, in addition, the added state of desiring and wanting to be in union with someone of the same sex.

Your questions as posed suggests puzzlement on you part. Therefore, it seems to take as a precedent that if sexual relationship is desired, then surely it’s not to be denied.

If “Union” means a sexual relationship with a person of the same sex, then it is a desire to be denied.

Is there not a universe of good ways to live our life and contribute to others’ lives without a sexual relationship? Find joy in those ways and it will outweigh the other.

 

[Trident_H]

Every person in this world has their own cross to bear. We all also have sexual temptations that we need to resist. While I have empathy and pray for people with homosexual attraction, I do not think that they experience a “greater” amount of suffering compared to other people. However I do think that since homosexuality is such a hot topic in our society, they have to deal with a lot of secular minds and resources which aim to encourage them to sin (as well as be proud of it). That has got to be really rough.

I will say whether or not a person who has homosexual attractions should get married to someone of the opposite gender is a case by case basis. As long as they are committed to living their marriage in a way that the Church approves, it is between the couple and their Priest. You are correct though in saying that they could just choose to not get married. There is that option for people with homosexual and heterosexual attractions.

There is no way to know what God’s plan is for people who are gay. Everyone is different and God has different plans for each one of them. I pray that all people who have homosexuality as a cross to bear turns their hearts towards God and asks him for help. He is ready!

Yeah. Pretty much this.

 

[Stephen_says]

I know “gay” is a tricky word on CAF, but I use it as most people my age generaly use it: having (exclusive or dominant) same-sex attraction. So that first.

I just had a thought I’ve never considered before. It would be one thing, perhaps more easily understood, to say that those who are not attracted to members of the opposite sex just ought not get married. Marriage is no requirement - certainly no requirement for happiness or even ultimate fulfillment in Heaven. So no real loss there! If there is no desire for that kind of relationship with the opposite sex, there is no real harm.

However, with the case of homosexual persons, it’s not just a lack of attraction or ability to relate in certain ways to the opposite sex. It’s that; but it is, additionally, the deep desires and wishes to be in relationship with someone of the same sex. In other words, the same attractions, desires, and human feelings for a relationship are present for a gay person. Just not the right person… In the view of the Catholic Church.

This way of thinking makes me wonder more as to what God’s plan is for the gay person. For, to restate quickly, the gay person does not only have a lack of desire and feelings to marry someone (of the opposite sex). They have, in addition, the added state of desiring and wanting to be in union with someone of the same sex.

I don’t want to flip this around too much, but I can’t help it.

I am a straight man, and I have a desire to be in a union with someone of the opposite sex, and it sucks really hard sometimes that I have not been able to find someone who I want to be with and who also wants to be with me.

It makes me wonder what God’s plan is for me.

Do I have friendships with straight women that never have developed into something more intimate? Yes. Do I feel unfulfilled? Sometimes. Does that make me rebel against the Faith? No.

I am living my life as a chaste man. That is what I am called to right now.

It is not wrong for Gay people to have relationships, they can even have relationships with other Gay people , just like Men can have friendships with Women but that does not mean such relationships could or should develop sexually, or lead to marriage.

 

[at9009]

I don’t want to flip this around too much, but I can’t help it.

I am a straight man, and I have a desire to be in a union with someone of the opposite sex, and it sucks really hard sometimes that I have not been able to find someone who I want to be with and who also wants to be with me.

It makes me wonder what God’s plan is for me.

Do I have friendships with straight women that never have developed into something more intimate? Yes. Do I feel unfulfilled? Sometimes. Does that make me rebel against the Faith? No.

I am living my life as a chaste man. That is what I am called to right now.

It is not wrong for Gay people to have relationships, they can even have relationships with other Gay people , just like Men can have friendships with Women but that does not mean such relationships could or should develop sexually, or lead to marriage.

That is an important point. We are all built for relationships (We just need to keep in mind how to keep those relationships in a way that glorifies God). Additionally, I think the big issue is that our society including Christian culture (in general) has kind of idolatrized married and romance as the end all be all (including treating it as a check box in life). With that, a gay/SSA person in many cases is not called for marriage yet society treats marriage as the evidence of a person ‘growing up.’ So the person ultimately ends up feeling stuck. They see friends getting married and staring families while they are still in the same ‘stage’ with no prospects of that ever changing. Add on to that as friends marry and have children, they often have less time for their single friend so they often end up feeling even more alone (not anyone’s fault but just an effect of life sometimes).

This issue with marriage idolatry also affects other issues as many who end up divorced are willing to compromise and remarry because ‘they can’t possibly live alone.’

A way to address this would be to somehow help people better develop friendships (real friendships since as a society we have completely devalued them), support people in the single life (for whatever reason whether its for life or only for a period), and try to show that a celibate life doesn’t mean an unfilled one. Just my two cents though.

 

[Trident_H]

That is an important point. We are all built for relationships (We just need to keep in mind how to keep those relationships in a way that glorifies God). Additionally, I think the big issue is that our society including Christian culture (in general) has kind of idolatrized married and romance as the end all be all (including treating it as a check box in life). With that, a gay/SSA person in many cases is not called for marriage yet society treats marriage as the evidence of a person ‘growing up.’ So the person ultimately ends up feeling stuck. They see friends getting married and staring families while they are still in the same ‘stage’ with no prospects of that ever changing. Add on to that as friends marry and have children, they often have less time for their single friend so they often end up feeling even more alone (not anyone’s fault but just an effect of life sometimes).

This issue with marriage idolatry also affects other issues as many who end up divorced are willing to compromise and remarry because ‘they can’t possibly live alone.’

A way to address this would be to somehow help people better develop friendships (real friendships since as a society we have completely devalued them), support people in the single life (for whatever reason whether its for life or only for a period), and try to show that a celibate life doesn’t mean an unfilled one. Just my two cents though.

Yes. This too. Well put buddy.

 

[catholic1seeks]

I don’t want to flip this around too much, but I can’t help it.

I am a straight man, and I have a desire to be in a union with someone of the opposite sex, and it sucks really hard sometimes that I have not been able to find someone who I want to be with and who also wants to be with me.

It makes me wonder what God’s plan is for me.

Do I have friendships with straight women that never have developed into something more intimate? Yes. Do I feel unfulfilled? Sometimes. Does that make me rebel against the Faith? No.

I am living my life as a chaste man. That is what I am called to right now.

It is not wrong for Gay people to have relationships, they can even have relationships with other Gay people , just like Men can have friendships with Women but that does not mean such relationships could or should develop sexually, or lead to marriage.

It’s not really the same. A straight man has the potential and hope to enter into a relationship and be married. A gay man does not have that hope. Even more, the former’s state is considered natural, and the latter’s is disordered. So the straight man has the potential to form something good while the gay person’s wishes are deemed as immoral.

 

[KildareBrigid]

It’s not really the same. A straight man has the potential and hope to enter into a relationship and be married. A gay man does not have that hope. Even more, the former’s state is considered natural, and the latter’s is disordered. So the straight man has the potential to form something good while the gay person’s wishes are deemed as immoral.

That is a very secular way of looking at the situation. Society is telling us that we deserve to be “happy” right now and we should be able to do whatever makes us “happy” at the moment. If we don’t get to do what makes us “happy” then we are being treated unfairly. The focus isn’t on TRUE happiness through honoring our Lord and ultimately getting to Heaven.

 

[Stephen_says]

It’s not really the same. A straight man has the potential and hope to enter into a relationship and be married. A gay man does not have that hope. Even more, the former’s state is considered natural, and the latter’s is disordered. So the straight man has the potential to form something good while the gay person’s wishes are deemed as immoral.

Do I have the potential and hope for marriage? I don’t know. Sometimes I think I am made differently. Sometimes I fear that there is something inherent in my being that cannot form a deep and lasting romantic bond with another person, and that terrifies me. You think it’s different, but I can see a similarity in it. People ask “Why would God make people gay and refuse them marriage, that’s like choosing their path in life (single celibacy) for them.” Sometimes I think the same thing. Why did God make me unable to have a relationship, yet ingrain a deep yearning for one? I don’t know. So I can sympathize with SSA humans in wanting something I can’t have, even though I don’t understand why I can’t have it.

 

[catholic1seeks]

That is a very secular way of looking at the situation. Society is telling us that we deserve to be “happy” right now and we should be able to do whatever makes us “happy” at the moment. If we don’t get to do what makes us “happy” then we are being treated unfairly. The focus isn’t on TRUE happiness through honoring our Lord and ultimately getting to Heaven.

Secular way ???

I simply am trying to show that the comparison is off. Many blow off the struggles gay Christians have by saying things like “Well, everyone is called to chastity” or “gay people are not the only ones who can’t get married.” But the point is that a homosexual Christian never has that hope, to begin with. So loneliness, in some sense, is always foreseen. But the average straight person is not told that seeking a relationship is inherently wrong. Rather, that person has the hope to be in relationship, eventually.

 

[catholic1seeks]

Do I have the potential and hope for marriage? I don’t know. Sometimes I think I am made differently. Sometimes I fear that there is something inherent in my being that cannot form a deep and lasting romantic bond with another person, and that terrifies me. You think it’s different, but I can see a similarity in it. People ask “Why would God make people gay and refuse them marriage, that’s like choosing their path in life (single celibacy) for them.” Sometimes I think the same thing. Why did God make me unable to have a relationship, yet ingrain a deep yearning for one? I don’t know. So I can sympathize with SSA humans in wanting something I can’t have, even though I don’t understand why I can’t have it.

I understand the similarity you are trying to make. Not all straight people will be married, even if they want to be.

But I still do no think you are seeing the difference I am trying to make. The homosexual person will not EVER have the option, or the hope, to be married or in a relationship – if he wants to be faithful in a church (that adheres to traditional sexual morality) – because that person is homosexual. It’s not just that there is no option for this kind of relationship for the gay person. It is that; but it is also that any wish to be in such a relationship is deemed unnatural – the relationship is damnable.

 

[KildareBrigid]

Secular way ???

I simply am trying to show that the comparison is off. Many blow off the struggles gay Christians have by saying things like “Well, everyone is called to chastity” or “gay people are not the only ones who can’t get married.” But the point is that a homosexual Christian never has that hope, to begin with. So loneliness, in some sense, is always foreseen. But the average straight person is not told that seeking a relationship is inherently wrong. Rather, that person has the hope to be in relationship, eventually.

I stand by my statement. Instead of looking at the situation as “I can never have what I am attracted to,” the hope would be that a person would look at it as “I am tempted to do something that is sinful and detrimental to my soul, I need to resist this temptation.” The feeling that they can’t have a marriage with someone of the same sex is a secular movement based on doing what makes you feel good, not what is good for your soul.

 

[kozlosap]

The situation concerning LGBTQ people is so difficult to deal with until you put yourselves in their shoes, then things begin to clarify.

 

[KildareBrigid]

The situation concerning LGBTQ people is so difficult to deal with until you put yourselves in their shoes, then things begin to clarify.

Absolutely. As my parish’s Priest said in his homily a couple of weeks ago “Truth and Love go together.”

 

[Sarah_B_Good]

Do I have the potential and hope for marriage? I don’t know. Sometimes I think I am made differently. Sometimes I fear that there is something inherent in my being that cannot form a deep and lasting romantic bond with another person, and that terrifies me. You think it’s different, but I can see a similarity in it. People ask “Why would God make people gay and refuse them marriage, that’s like choosing their path in life (single celibacy) for them.” Sometimes I think the same thing. Why did God make me unable to have a relationship, yet ingrain a deep yearning for one? I don’t know. So I can sympathize with SSA humans in wanting something I can’t have, even though I don’t understand why I can’t have it.

Please understand that I am not trying to diminish or dishonor in any way the pain that you obviously feel from desiring a relationship with a woman that at least as of yet hasn’t happened. I feel for you and will certainly pray for you. I can’t imagine my life without my husband and I know how lucky and blessed I am to have found such a wonderful man. But what I must still object to is not the similarity that you feel to gay people in this regard (which is a good thing), but to your failure to acknowledge the difference because it as an important one.

You know, a gay man who is open to and maybe actively seeking a relationship may find himself in exactly the same situation as you. It’s not as if every gay person who wants a relationship is handed one automatically. In fact, in some ways it is even more difficult to find someone because they are looking for a partner from a much smaller portion of the population than are straight people.

But a gay man who accepts the church’s teaching is in a much different situation than you. Yes, you may end up only forming friendships with women, but you have all the freedom in the world to entertain the notion of a romantic relationship with a woman. You can date women, your Catholic friends may try to set you up on dates, the whole community can support you and pray for you and be behind you in hoping that you find that special woman who is right for you. And despite your frustrations it may still happen.

None of that is possible for gay people in the Catholic Church. You don’t date. You don’t entertain any notions of a partnership of any kind, much less marriage. You can certainly form friendships with other gay people, but you may be encouraged to cut that friendship off if it feels as though it is leading to something more. Gay people can’t entertain, hope for, pray for the type of romantic relationship that not only can you, but that your whole community can support you in finding.

I have a lot of gay friends and have heard their stories, and I appreciate you empathizing in the way you have, but there are others on this thread who think that gay people don’t have it harder than anyone else. Some men compare staying faithful to their wives as a equivalent to the life long celibacy that is just expected of gay people. It’s incredibly insensitive and lacking in the sympathy they always claim to have, but completely lack. I am not suggesting that of you, but I think it’s important to recognize that the burden the Catholic Church puts on gay people is much more than generally acknowledged here on CAF.

And I will pray for you. I know some people who have not found the right person until later in life, but they have been no less happy and I wish that for you as well.

 

[KildareBrigid]

I think it’s important to recognize that the burden the Catholic Church puts on gay people is much more than generally acknowledged here on CAF.

Can you explain this a little more? I understand your point about being empathetic to people with same sex attraction, but the Church is following the Lord’s will. I guess I am just confused on what additional burden is being placed?

 

[Sarah_B_Good]

I stand by my statement. Instead of looking at the situation as “I can never have what I am attracted to,” the hope would be that a person would look at it as “I am tempted to do something that is sinful and detrimental to my soul, I need to resist this temptation.” The feeling that they can’t have a marriage with someone of the same sex is a secular movement based on doing what makes you feel good, not what is good for your soul.

As a straight person, that’s a very easy thing to say, isn’t it?

 

[KildareBrigid]

As a straight person, that’s a very easy thing to say, isn’t it?

I said the HOPE would be they would think that way. Of course I know the world doesn’t work that way. However God’s truth is God’s truth. We need to have empathy and support people who are facing temptations, but if we are truly loving them we need to stay true to teachings that are good for their souls.