Homosexuality, marriage and use of condoms

[Brendea]

God created Adam and Eve. . . .

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

The bible says homosexuality is wrong

 

[TheLittleLady]

Marriage is not about fertility.

Homosexual acts are not immoral because of the lack of fertility.

The marital act is reserved for those in a valid marriage and in a way that is ordered toward procreation.

 

[Richca]

Although this might be a basic question, it’s something I am really struggling to understand.
Why are gay people not allowed to get married if a couple who cannot have children can get married in Church? Also after a married couple over 50 can continue having sex, even without the ability to have children. I just can’t get to grips with this.

It’s a matter of common sense, the natural law, and God’s revelation contained in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. God instituted marriage to be between one man and one woman. This is the only way naturally that human beings can procreate children. The procreation of children is a consequence or comes after the exchange of wedding vows between the man and woman. Accordingly, although the procreation of children is a primary end or purpose of marriage, the essence of marriage or what makes a marriage is in the exchange of vows between the man and woman. Another end of marriage is the help the spouses give to each other in meeting the necessities of daily life as well as friendship and companionship.

We acknowledge that being gay is not a sin, yet it is if they engage with their sexuality…?

Yes, it is a grave sin against chastity. It is obvious that the sexual act between a man and woman was designed by God as the only natural way of producing new human beings. The unity of the spouses and procreation are inseparable dimensions of the sexual act. The sexual act is not lawful outside a valid marriage between one man and one woman. The sexual act is one of the most sacred acts a human being can perform on earth for it can produce a new human being and child of God. This is one reason why sins against chastity are serious and grave, i.e, mortal sins in their object.

Yet we allow infertile couples to get married? We also acknowledge that a gay couple can have the same experience of love that a straight couple has.

A gay couple cannot have the same experience of love that a man and woman can have for obvious reasons.

 

[Richca]

(continued)

From: AlexisTherese:
Is it because allowing a gay couple to get married in the church would challenge the use of condoms (I understand the pill is different in this case). I am embarrassed about asking and I am not trying to change church doctrine, I just cannot understand this. The way I see it is that it would bring up the question that condoms should be okay to use during marriage if a gay couple were able to get married in a Catholic church. Please be kind, I know this is a heated question.

You actually make a good point here in a certain sense. If gay people could get married and engage in sexual acts than there doesn’t seem to be a reason why a straight couple couldn’t use contraception or masturbate. In fact, there wouldn’t seem to be a reason why single people couldn’t fornicate or masturbate. From one serious error many other errors logically follow. This is one reason why it is a sin for marriage couples to use contraception. It cheapens the enormous value of the act of sexual intercourse to self interest and self love to the sole purpose of self pleasure. From one serious error many will logically follow even beyond the area of sexual intercourse to other matters of virtue or vice. Historically in the last century, contraception came on the scene followed by abortion followed by homosexuality and followed now by gender ideology.

 

[goout]

Neophyte:
People with homosexual attractions are allowed to get married, and always have been. The problem is that most of them aren’t interested in being joined to someone of the opposite sex, which by definition is what marriage is.

Why do you believe the above, like explain it with back up

The nature of marriage is not a matter of mere belief. It is a matter of sane observation of what is revealed and coherent thought about what is seen. Our beliefs guide us to to properly see and treasure what is revealed.

It doesn’t take a “rocket scientist” to look at human beings and observe a few common sense things:

1. Human beings exist. This might seem like a really stupid thing to note, but it is the heart of the problem. Humans are existing creatures with a body and a soul, and…
2. there is only way for human beings to come into existence. What is that?
3. the union of a man and a woman is unique in the pro-creation of human beings, and so by definition,
4. A same sex couple cannot be the same thing as the union of a man and woman.

You can call it a marriage, and give the union rights, but to equate it to the union of man and woman is simply a deception.
And it’s good to note that when deception is the game plan, co-opting the language is necessary, so that you can call a thing something that it’s not.

You might think all of this is philosophical hard-headedness and should not inform the way we live, and my question for you is:
Do you think human existence is something to be treasured? If you do, marriage of man and woman is also.

 

[AlexisTherese]

I think it is dangerous to teach children this though, I would fear my child would grow up feeling ashamed of something they cannot help? Telling someone their love is an abomination when it is between two consenting adults to me is quite scary and damaging…

 

[AlexisTherese]

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)
What if this just something untrue though and just culture back then? I know I am challenging big things but it really has me at a loss…

 

[Brendea]

I suggest you read about Sodom and Gomorrah both sinful cities destroyed by “sulfur and fire” because of their wickedness

 

[thistle]

Can I ask why homosexuality is considered as intrinsically disordered?

The Church teaching:

CCC 2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

 

[jeeter]

I think it is dangerous to teach children this though, I would fear my child would grow up feeling ashamed of something they cannot help?

There’s also a good amount of evidence that addictions are genetic. Would you encourage a child to snort a couple lines, since they can’t help it?

Telling someone their love is an abomination when it is between two consenting adults to me is quite scary and damaging…

That view raises the question of where does one draw the line then, if “love” is going to based off feels between consenting adults? If one can now give in to their urges and “marry” someone of the same sex, then what about the “B” in LGBTQRSTUVWXYZ1234? Should they be allowed to “marry” a man and woman? Then we get into the issue of fundy Mormons. Should we now recognize that a man can have 2 or 3 wives (one’s enough for me, lol )? Then there’s the issue of what some would call “genetic sexual attraction”. But they’re consenting adults, so it’s a-otay.

I’m thinking that the best thing is to tell kids that while people may experience certain desire or urges, they’re best left unanswered.

 

[Rev12Mary]

I agree with you. However, linking condoms in the conversation does have a connection. Before contraception sex was honored as the right of the married couple which would lead to children. When contraception flooded the scene sex became about “pleasuring” each other and pre marital sex became all the rage. Condoms and other means of contraception helped the sexual revolution and shaped the mindset that sex is all about “my pleasure” and not about marriage or kids- thus enabling those with same sex attraction to justify in their own minds even- that they were being treated unfairly- that sex between the same gender isn’t hurting anyone. Because if sex is all about pleasure - why is it wrong between 2 consenting adults? So, contraception played a huge role in growth of the Homosexual culture.

 

[AlexisTherese]

There’s also a good amount of evidence that addictions are genetic. Would you encourage a child to snort a couple lines, since they can’t help it?

I don’t think you can compare someone having a cocaine addiction to a couple in love who happen to be gay…

‘If one can now give in to their urges and “marry” someone of the same sex, then what about the “B” in LGBTQRSTUVWXYZ1234? Should they be allowed to “marry” a man and woman?’

I am talking purely about monogamous homosexual relationships, the argument WHAT NEXT is just causing more problems.
The B stands for Bisexual, they tend to be monogamous but can end up in a relationship with a man or a woman at different times. You can be in an open relationship and bisexual but that would make you polyamorous (different to polygamy as it doesn’t involve marriage) and bisexual not just bisexual. If you marry two people you’re engaging in bigamy and if you’re marrying more is polygamy. Bisexuality is not bigamy.

I am just worried… Being gay and being told that you cannot marry someone you love could be and is psychologically damaging.

LGBTQRSTUVWXYZ1234

This is just offensive, I’m asking for help, it’s LGBTQIA…

 

[Wesrock]

Same sex attraction is a disordered or misdirected desire. It is not sinful in itself.

Human men and women are biologically complementary, and the natural order is that they come together in long term unions to perpetuate the species, both in giving birth and in partnerships to care for and raise the child and protect each other.

Infertility (something my wife and I have personally struggled with) is a physical evil affecting couples, a failure of some goodness natural to persons to manifest, but it doesn’t prevent them from acting in manners consistent with the natural order of marital union, so there is no moral evil in couples with infertility coming together so long as they respect the complementarity of their bodies.

Note that impotence is a barrier to entering into a valid marriage and if permanent impotence happens after a marriage is entered the couple should refrain from other sexual relations.

 

[AlexisTherese]

I guess I really don’t understand why it’s disordered or wrong?
I don’t understand why God would put it in the Bible, knowing how damaging it would be?
I really don’t understand how Catholics are so okay about this, knowing how damaging it is towards gay people or even their gay children?

 

[jeeter]

This is just offensive, I’m asking for help, it’s LGBTQIA…

Fair enough, no offense was intended. I’ll try to avoid that in the future.

That being said, it would easer for me to not poke a bit of fun if it didn’t seem like additional letters were always being added. Last I checked it was LGBTTQQIAAP

 

[theCardinalbird]

I don’t understand why God would put it in the Bible, knowing how damaging it would be?
I really don’t understand how Catholics are so okay about this, knowing how damaging it is towards gay people or even their gay children?

As a same sex attracted Catholic, I’m perfectly fine with the Church’s teachings, in fact, I embrace it. I view this attraction as a cross to bear and Christ never promised a comfortable life. I’d rather live a life with God’s love where, like everyone, is called to deny oneself and follow him.

This doesn’t mean that it’s hard to deal with these feelings, it is really that I love God and I recognize how he made me as a man and what that means exactly

 

[jeeter]

I don’t think you can compare someone having a cocaine addiction to a couple in love who happen to be gay…

‘If one can now give in to their urges and “marry” someone of the same sex, then what about the “B” in LGBTQRSTUVWXYZ1234? Should they be allowed to “marry” a man and woman?’

I am talking purely about monogamous homosexual relationships, the argument WHAT NEXT is just causing more problems.
The B stands for Bisexual, they tend to be monogamous but can end up in a relationship with a man or a woman at different times. You can be in an open relationship and bisexual but that would make you polyamorous (different to polygamy as it doesn’t involve marriage) and bisexual not just bisexual. If you marry two people you’re engaging in bigamy and if you’re marrying more is polygamy. Bisexuality is not bigamy.

I am just worried… Being gay and being told that you cannot marry someone you love could be and is psychologically damaging.

I wasn’t trying to compare drug use to deep seated feelings. My point was the born this way argument. If someone should be allowed to marry someone of the same sex because they were born that way, why shouldn’t someone be allowed to shoot heroin under controlled, supervised circumstances, since they were (arguably) genetically pre-disposed (born that way). Or engage in any number of other behaviors?

The B stands for Bisexual, they tend to be monogamous but can end up in a relationship with a man or a woman at different times. You can be in an open relationship and bisexual but that would make you polyamorous (different to polygamy as it doesn’t involve marriage) and bisexual not just bisexual. If you marry two people you’re engaging in bigamy and if you’re marrying more is polygamy. Bisexuality is not bigamy.

But that’s my point: if a gay man can marry a man, and a lesbian can marry a woman because they’re born that way and that’s who they’re attracted to, why can’t a bisexual marry one of each? If someone “can” be in a relationship with one of each at various times, what’s the problem if they’re consenting?

And what about GSA? Consenting adults, not affecting anyone else, so why not?

 

[Richca]

I think it is dangerous to teach children this though, I would fear my child would grow up feeling ashamed of something they cannot help?

It is written “He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him”(Proverbs 13:24).

Catholic parents have a grave responsibility of raising and teaching their children in the truth of the catholic faith. What is gravely dangerous and evil is to allow and encourage without loving correction children and more so little children who are very impressionable to indulge in the demonic worldly fantasies and lies of homosexuality and gender ideology. This is a demonic grave form of child abuse and as the sacred writer says hatred of children. Jesus tells us what should be done to the promoters of these lies that cause a grave scandal to little children, namely, “whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea” (Matt. 18:6).

 

[TheLittleLady]

This is just offensive, I’m asking for help, it’s LGBTQIA…

For the life of me, I cannot understand why people think insults are charitable

 

[TheLittleLady]

We all suffer from some sort of disordered desires, also from physical disorders, because of the Fall.

Some of us have a disordered desire for money, others for power, some for sex, and some have the cross of same sex attraction, homosexuality, bisexuality, etc.

It does not make one a bad person because they have one or many disordered desires any more than it makes me a bad person because my body is disordered (I have a severe form of dwarfism).

In the Old Testament, people with dwarfism were not allowed to enter certain parts of the Temple because of their disorder, they could not be priests. This does not damage me. I know that I am a beloved child of God, that Christ died for me and that I am not defined by this disorder.

Hugs and prayers for you.