Homosexuality - the facts

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From the Library of this site:

catholic.com/library/Homosexuality.asp

To goofyjim,

God loves you with your same sex attraction. He loves me with my opposite sex attraction. For me, marriage is God’s choice for expressing my sexuality, or chastity. It is up to me.

Peace,
Ed
 
When did you come to the conclusion that you are gay? Do you ever engage in ‘self-talk’ about being gay?
I came to the conclusion at a very young age, probably 4 or 5. I accepted quietly the insults of classmates, which I believe are just as much sin as being gay is. It wasn’t until my adult life that I could be happy or gay. I would much rather engage in talk about being gay than any change of something that was there before I could do anything about it. We’re playing the old chicken and egg game. We say all those other factors cause it. But that is hogwash. They are only circumstances that further tend to isolate the individual who experiences it from the beginning. I don’t see what we are so afraid of in accepting that the homosexual orientation is osmething you’re born with. It is not a deformity in any way or a disease. It is a neutral condition that harms noone.
 
It is not a deformity in any way or a disease. It is a neutral condition that harms noone.
not a disease, well maybe you can’t say that anymore than someone can say it is. there is biased and unconclusive evidence on both sides, but nothing definative.

neutral and harms noone? well as long as it is never acted on i would completely agree with that. all feelings are neutral its when we entertain and act on them that they can be good or bad.
 
For one last time, nothing went “wrong” in the womb. God permitted me to develop as a homosexual male. He’s happy with it, I’m happy with it. I don’t care about anyone else. As it is I am going to ignore any other posts of “facts” and quit visiting these forums, because you don’t accept the truth, unless it gels with your way of thinking.
How do you know these things? You are going far beyond the evidence you have presented. It seems that you are speculating on a cause and choosing one that gives you comfort. Human beings are hard to analysize, our intellect , will and feelings are so intimately tied togther that we are easily wounded psychologically without knowing it. We had a spat of reports about ten years ago about repressed memories in connection with sexual molestation by parents. The memory is simply blotted out but has an effect
on our behavior in ways we don’t understand. Events can warp the growth of any living beings.
 
How do you know these things? You are going far beyond the evidence you have presented. It seems that you are speculating on a cause and choosing one that gives you comfort. Human beings are hard to analysize, our intellect , will and feelings are so intimately tied togther that we are easily wounded psychologically without knowing it. We had a spat of reports about ten years ago about repressed memories in connection with sexual molestation by parents. The memory is simply blotted out but has an effect
on our behavior in ways we don’t understand. Events can warp the growth of any living beings.
Come now. You’re not really suggesting that my parents or another relative molested me, are you? No the only evidence I have is that of personal testimony that I actually felt this way since preschool years.
 
I don’t know why I’m gay. All I know is that I didn’t choose it, and that having raised 5 straight children after me, I doubt it was something my parents did.
 
Individuals experience same-sex attractions for different reasons. While there are similarities in the patterns of development, each individual has a unique, personal history. In the histories of persons who experience same-sex attraction, one frequently finds one or more of the following:
So not only does Catholicism know exactly where the Universe came from, why human beings are here, exactly what is right and wrong in the world - it knows exactly why I’m gay! Wow, that’s pretty impressive.

As a gay person, I should have experienced one of the following, Catholicism says. Let’s see if it’s correct:
· Alienation from the father in early childhood because the father was perceived as hostile or distant, violent or alcoholic (Apperson 1968[17]; Bene 1965[18]; Bieber 1962[19]; Fisher 1996[20]; Pillard 1988[21]; Sipova 1983[22])
Well, my dad was never an alcoholic and he was never violent. Occasionally he was slightly hostile, but only when I did something extremely offensive. It seems completely appropriate to threaten a little kid with a spanking after being extremely rude, right? And Dad was never distant. My childhood memories of him are very positive. He was - and still is - kind and caring.
· Mother was overprotective (boys) (Bieber, T. 1971[23]; Bieber 1962[24]; Snortum 1969[25])
My mother seemed appropriately protective of me throughout childhood. She let me go outside and play when I wanted to, and go on field trips, and school, and have friends, and all that, just like everyone else’s parents.

On the other hand, though, I believed my parents were extremely overprotective when they found out I was gay at age 15. They responded by locking me up in my room, pretty much, and cutting off contact with outsiders. But that was *after *I came out to them. Overprotection was the *result *of me being gay, not the *cause *of it.
· Mother was needy and demanding (boys) (Fitzgibbons 1999[26])
Not really. Both my parents wanted me to do my best in school and help out around the house, just like everyone else’s parents.
· Mother emotionally unavailable (girls) (Bradley 1997[27]; Eisenbud 1982[28])
I’m not a girl, but this doesn’t even apply to me.
· Parents failed to encourage same-sex identification (Zucker 1995[29])
No. I always clearly identified as male, and I can remember no evidence of my parents ever not encouraging that.
· Lack of rough and tumble play (boys) (Friedman 1980[30]; Hadden 1967a [31])
What the heck would this have to do with being gay anyway? Anyway, I had lots of male friends in childhood and sometimes it involved fights or physical contact. Such is the nature of growing up.
· Failure to identify with same/sex peers (Hockenberry 1987[32]; Whitman 1977[33])
Nope. My buddies were male. They were my friends. I wouldn’t have used the words “I identify with them” in childhood, but looking back it seems clear that I did.
· Dislike of team sports (boys) (Thompson 1973[34])
I loved schoolyard games and played often. I had fun running around and playing kickball or four-square. I wasn’t very good at basketball or football, but gave it a good try! I didn’t dislike the sport at all and enjoyed participating, even though I was terrible. How this can cause homosexuality is extremely unclear.
· Lack of hand/eye coordination and resultant teasing by peers (boys) (Bailey 1993[35]; Fitzgibbons 1999[36]; Newman 1976[37])
I actually have excellent hand/eye coordination. I’m amazing at first-person shooter video games; you should see me play a round of Call of Duty. I’m excellent. However, I am terrible at shooting a basketball, and always have been, though I can’t recall being teased for a lack of athletic ability in school. I was well liked for lots of miscellaneous reasons, like my charm and sense of humor.
· Sexual abuse or rape (Beitchman 1991[38]; Bradley 1997[39]; Engel 1981[40]; Finkelhor 1984; Gundlach 1967[41])
Wrong again!
· Social phobia or extreme shyness (Golwyn 1993[42])
I am an introvert, but I don’t have a social phobia.
· Parental loss through death or divorce (Zucker 1995)
Nope, parents have been together forever, and it seems it will stay that way for a long time!
· Separation from parent during critical developmental stages (Zucker 1995)
No. My parents have always been there, for better or for worse.
In some cases, same-sex attraction or activity occurs in a patient with other psychological diagnosis, such as:

· major depression (Fergusson 1999[43])
I was depressed *after *I came out, *because of the reaction I got from my parents and others. *It was the *result *of being gay, and not the cause.
· suicidal ideation (Herrell 1999)
Nope.
· generalized anxiety disorder
Nope.
· substance abuse
Nope.
· conduct disorder in adolescents
Nope.
· borderline personality disorder (Parris 1993[44]; Zubenko 1987[45])
Nope.
· schizophrenia (Gonsiorek 1982) [46]
Nope.
· pathological narcissism (Bychowski 1954[47]; Kaplan 1967[48])
Nope.

I’m gay. None of the above apply to me, or presented themselves after I was very clearly gay and out. These “facts” apparently aren’t as true as some would like them to be!
 
God created “heterosexuals”, He didn’t create anomalies or diseases or anything that is against the natural law
Do you believe in evolution by natural selection? If so, did God or the devil make evolution? Evolution, as I’m sure you know, is powered by genetic mutations. These genetic mutations can cause bad changes and good changes. Are the “good changes” caused by God and the “bad changes” caused by the devil?
 
Do you believe in evolution by natural selection? If so, did God or the devil make evolution? Evolution, as I’m sure you know, is powered by genetic mutations. These genetic mutations can cause bad changes and good changes. Are the “good changes” caused by God and the “bad changes” caused by the devil?
I don’t believe in evolution, it’s a theory, but there are definitely mutations. This world isn’t perfect as you know as evidenced by some of the mutations found and diseases from them. If you think God created people to be gay, then you have the wrong god. Funny thing, you can tell by our sexual organs how he created us to be.

P.S. Evolution is not the same as natural selection. Many animals developed mutations to adapt to their environment like coloring to protect them from the sun if they were exposed to the sun for a long period of time, etc.
 
So not only does Catholicism know exactly where the Universe came from, why human beings are here, exactly what is right and wrong in the world - it knows exactly why I’m gay! Wow, that’s pretty impressive.

As a gay person, I should have experienced one of the following, Catholicism says. Let’s see if it’s correct:

No. My parents have always been there, for better or for worse.

I was depressed *after *I came out, *because of the reaction I got from my parents and others. *It was the *result *of being gay, and not the cause.

Nope.

I’m gay. None of the above apply to me, or presented themselves after I was very clearly gay and out. These “facts” apparently aren’t as true as some would like them to be!
I think it meant these are some things to look for if you suspect your son or daughter to be gay, not exactly all causal, however, some of these do exist in some gay people as part of the cause, (notice I said part of the cause because there are a number of different factors, not just one), I’ve met them, heard their testimony and have a similar story myself.
 
I took a look at who the doctors are who did the studies that equated to the aricle’s conclusions. Dr Zucker is well known as a quack, and many of his young patients attempoted suicide after his treatments. I wouldn’t trust this article any more than Id trust Charles Manson to do heart surgery on me.
 
I took a look at who the doctors are who did the studies that equated to the aricle’s conclusions. Dr Zucker is well known as a quack, and many of his young patients attempoted suicide after his treatments. I wouldn’t trust this article any more than Id trust Charles Manson to do heart surgery on me.
For your information, some of these things that are mentioned can be part of the issue of why a person is gay. In other research studies, it was stated by an APA psychologist that there can be a number of reasons of why a person is gay, and he mentioned psychologcal/environmental as well as possible biological and genetic causes though with these never being proven. Believe me, I know plenty of people who struggle who speak of deep psychological trauma from influential people in their lives at all levels, so please don’t rule these findings out. Even though they may all not be applicable, some of them can be influential in causation.

One research group, NARTH, has studied these things in depth for many years, which has on their staff qualified doctors and psychologists. But you’ll probably put down that organization too. I’m just saying don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater if you don’t have all your facts straight, and try to be open to all realms of possibility.
 
Come now. You’re not really suggesting that my parents or another relative molested me, are you? No the only evidence I have is that of personal testimony that I actually felt this way since preschool years.
What I am saying that children/adults can be deeply affected by events of which they have no conscious memory.
 
What I am saying that children/adults can be deeply affected by events of which they have no conscious memory.
Well, yes, but that is a black box. You could claim anything is inside (which is to say, subconcious) and there is no way of proving it. Someone else could just as easily contradict you or claim something entirely different.
 
What I am saying that children/adults can be deeply affected by events of which they have no conscious memory.
I have no conscious memory of any events because there were no events to have a memory of. NOONE did anything to me. I was born with a homosexual orientation. So stop the insinuation that I am subconsciously forgetting something because that is accusing people in my life which is just dead wrong. Isn’t there something in the Ten Commandments about bearing false witness. Everyone is so afraid of conceding that someone like myself is born with an orientation when the orientation alone does not go against the will of God.
 
One research group, NARTH, has studied these things in depth for many years, which has on their staff qualified doctors and psychologists. But you’ll probably put down that organization too. I’m just saying don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater if you don’t have all your facts straight, and try to be open to all realms of possibility.
I will, because I was treated by them.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4698103#post4698103
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4698198#post4698198

I will be in therapy for the rest of my life because of what these monsters did to me. I have panic attacks from the color pink, I have panic attacks from certain trigger events so bad I simply faint. You cannot stop those or fix those with therapy, because if you can’t be conscious, how can you train yourself against it? I can’t drive at night, I’m on a battery of meds just to keep myself sane. If I am not on them, I go crazy and regress back to my childhood so much I can’t take care of myself. I still wake up screaming in fear, screaming the names of those that did it to me.

What kind of monsters do this to children? NARTH does.
 
I will, because I was treated by them.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4698103#post4698103
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4698198#post4698198

I will be in therapy for the rest of my life because of what these monsters did to me. I have panic attacks from the color pink, I have panic attacks from certain trigger events so bad I simply faint. You cannot stop those or fix those with therapy, because if you can’t be conscious, how can you train yourself against it? I can’t drive at night, I’m on a battery of meds just to keep myself sane. If I am not on them, I go crazy and regress back to my childhood so much I can’t take care of myself. I still wake up screaming in fear, screaming the names of those that did it to me.

What kind of monsters do this to children? NARTH does.
Like I said before, I don’t condone anyone trying to change people that do not want to be changed, also I don’t think that this therapy is very successful. I believe one can have a heart change if they accept Jesus into their heart and let His healing hand heal them.

There are many Christian support groups (not reparative therapy groups) that people can go to for support, prayer and counseling. Believe me, some people need counseling from things that happened to them. This is not to change them, but to help them resolve emotional wounds and issues from the past. If you don’t work these out and face the pain and anger, you can never be free of them.

Narth to my knowledge is a research group who may have offered reparative counseling in the past, but their main objective is research on the subject.
 
Like I said before, I don’t condone anyone trying to change people that do not want to be changed, also I don’t think that this therapy is very successful. I believe one can have a heart change if they accept Jesus into their heart and let His healing hand heal them.

There are many Christian support groups (not reparative therapy groups) that people can go to for support, prayer and counseling. Believe me, some people need counseling from things that happened to them. This is not to change them, but to help them resolve emotional wounds and issues from the past. If you don’t work these out and face the pain and anger, you can never be free of them.

Narth to my knowledge is a research group who may have offered reparative counseling in the past, but their main objective is research on the subject.
No further research is necessary. Just look at Matthew 19:12. Some are born incapable of heterosexual marriage which could cover a homosexual orientation. So it is quite possible to accept Jesus and still be homosexual. No reparative therapy can change the way you are born. It would be like changing eye color or anything else.
 
No further research is necessary. Just look at Matthew 19:12. Some are born incapable of heterosexual marriage which could cover a homosexual orientation. So it is quite possible to accept Jesus and still be homosexual. No reparative therapy can change the way you are born. It would be like changing eye color or anything else.
Right! Say someone who has been gay all their life and starts to have heterosexual feelings through coming to know Jesus and prayer (notice I did not say reparative therapy), and they want to learn different mannerisms, they can go to counseling to help them do that. But I’m not saying the therapy is what is going to change them, Jesus will, not man, but this would be helpful if they wanted to learn different mannerisms. I’ve heard of people doing this, who have been healed of their homosexual feelings and now experience heterosexual feelings because they’ve prayed. This doesn’t mean everyone experiences this, there are just a few.

Believe me, many people have been healed of this through the Lord and say that the big “H” is now a little “h”. If you don’t believe me, I can give you the literature where this has happened. I know you don’t think it is necessary to change, but if you wanted proof of people who have, I can show you. “With God all things are possible”. God Bless!
 
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