Homosexuality

  • Thread starter Thread starter louisa_howe
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

louisa_howe

Guest
What is everyones oppinion of Gay Or Lesbian Couples.

Are they any less of a person because of their choice in partner.

Should they be treated any differently because they prefer their own sex.

I welcome your thoughts and oppinions

Louisa.
 
I have no problem with homosexuality.

My own brother is Gay and he means the world to me.

God Bless

Sammie
 
We should love homosexual people, and we should pray for them. That doesn’t mean approving of the homosexual lifestyle, or approving of the homosexual unions. Of course, they are not any less of a person than other people who never experienced homosexual temptations. And many homosexual people are chaste, and fight the good fight against their temptations. Their courage, fight, and victory will earn them a special crown in heaven, the crown of victory that will be theirs in the eternal life.

I will just add, the rest of us heterosexuals are not strangers, either, to the world of sexual temptations and to the fight for chastity. In fact it’s well documented that some of the greatest Catholic saints, including St. Benedict, St. Francis of Assisi, and St. (Padre) Pio, experienced strong sexual temptations. It’s not how you are tempted that matters, but rather how you deal with it. 👍
 
I have a niece who is “married” to her girlfriend – they got "married’ in Massachusetts but it is not legally recognized in Texas where we all live.

Our family loves and prayers for this niece; however, we do not accept her marriage. Any time she and her partner are around – which is very rare – we are polite and courteous, but they both know how everyone feels. As a result of that she’s pretty much stopped coming to any family event.

It’s an extremely sad situation. Her brother recently got married and she refused to participate because she’s extremely jealous that we accept his wife and not hers. And she said some extremely spiteful things to his new wife. I’m afraid, at least with that relationship, she’s burning bridges she may never be able to repair.

I just continue praying for her – not necessarily that she will break up with this woman which I think is a bad relationship whether the partner is a man or woman but that she will realize that she’s made the choice to live an alternative lifestyle and she can’t expect everybody to treat her and her partner as a traditional couple.

So I guess to answer your question 😃 I believe everyone should be treated politely and courteously when together, but I do not agree with the lifestyle. If they ask me to have a conversation about my opinions, I will do so; but otherwise I don’t say anything (although my opinion is known) and I just treat kindly.
 
We are all children of God, and thus deserve to be treated as such. Nobody can ever be any less of a person; suffice to say that is impossible. You are a person, period. But I am with everybody else. Homosexuality is a sin.

Out of my 6 close buddies at school, 3 “came out” after school. And they are all extremely sexually active. I don’t support it, but I support my friends. Unfortunately, just as with the abortion and sex culture, pro-homosexuality is labelled and defined and described in such a way as to make it seem right, or somehow victimized.

In your own post you use sympathetic language, “Should they be treated any differently because they prefer their own sex.” There is a difference, and a whole lot of baggage, between having a same sex attraction, and acting on it. “Prefering” is a pretty loaded word too. Prefer to what? Prefer as in, “ah man, relax, its all subjective, you like girls that dude likes boys so what its preference”. See what I mean?

Anyway, acting homosexualy is a sin. The simplest way of explaining why to some non-Catholics, for me, is to expalain in terms of marriage. Sex before marriage is a sin. Man and Man cannot be married in God’s eyes (and until recently, in mans eyes). Thus, they can never and should never engage in sexual activity. But once you take away sex before marriage, and also take away God, well the floodgates open. And they have.
 
In my oppinion if its right for a men and a women to get married then why can it not
be the same for gay and lesbian couples.

Does it not say in the bible “love your fellow man”

So then why is it frowed on by some religions that they should not love their fellow being?

Louisa
 
Completely in agreement with Sammie. My brother is also gay and is as much a devoted Christian as I am. I am also good friends with his partner of 10 years. Being gay doesn’t stop either of them from having a wonderful relationship with God.

I’m tired of hearing this pointless rhetoric that homosexuals need to be chaste in order to be in communion with God. How can we expect them to be chaste when we heterosexual people have enough trouble doing it ourselves.
 
I totally agree with both sammie and prayershark we need to open peoples eyes to
this never ending debate!

Louisa
 
I totally agree with Prayer Shark, there is a story i remember about a mother and child crab, where the mother tells her son to stop walking sideways, then discovers she does it herself, the morale of the story dont preach to others when you dont practise what you preach yourself

Sammie
 
sigh…

Honestly, you have opened a can of worms. I do not believe you understand what marriage, sexuality and Christian love is all about if this is your attitude towards homosexuality. You need look no further however, than Catholic.com! If you do a search on homosexuality, I am positive that you wil find tons of stuff from the apologists.

The moral of the crab story isnt to not practise what you preach. It’s “Don’t bash it until you try it” - thats the moral. Which is no good argument in favour of homosexuality I am afraid.

If you have come here to open peoples eyes I think you have come to the wrong place 🤷 My homosexual friends often tell me “You are so close minded” and my reply is always “Praise God! I am not so open minded as to let all the rubbish in!”.

“I’m tired of hearing this pointless rhetoric that homosexuals need to be chaste in order to be in communion with God. How can we expect them to be chaste when we heterosexual people have enough trouble doing it ourselves.”

Again, not a good argument. And there is no pointless Rhetoric. Your line of reasoning is like saying we should let everybody off the hook for everything because we are all capable of doing it. Moral relativism to the extreme. Homosexuals should be chaste. Nuff said.

p.s. Sammie you indicate you are converting to Catholicism? If you hold this view on homosexuality, that might be a problem. You can’t come into the Church already scandalizing it! Please, search around Catholic.com and you’ll find some answers.
 
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2357 Homosexuality refers to the relations between men or between women who experience an exclusice or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuaries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, Tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natrual law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complimentarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectivelly disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These people are called to filfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gracefully and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

We should not judge the person, but we - out of love for them, should see to it that to the best of our power we encourage them to avoid grave sin and depravity - in the understanding that we are all imperfect we must proceed to try and help one another with our imperfections - but at no time should we condone acts that objectify other human beings.

👍
 
Homosexuality is a sin… but we are all sinners (some lie, some don’t honor their parents, some are proud, others envious, etc). And as a sinner myself it’s not my place to judge other people for their sins. I am not worthy to “cast a first stone.”

So to me, people who are homosexual aren’t any different than anyone else. They are still children of God and deserve the same treatment, respect and love as anyone else.
 
In my oppinion if its right for a men and a women to get married then why can it not
be the same for gay and lesbian couples.

Does it not say in the bible “love your fellow man”

So then why is it frowed on by some religions that they should not love their fellow being?

Louisa
OK, let’s not get literal. ‘Loving’ your fellow ‘man’ does not mean having sex. ‘Man’ here stands for people, let’s clarify that too.
Love is sooooooo much more than sex. It is so sad that our culture is so sex obsessed that it is not possible to understand love without immediate link to sexual activity.

There are many words for love in the Bible - check them out and their meaning.

And no, you are not less of a person if you are homosexual but that doesn’t mean you have to live in sin because you are attracted to the same sex. We all have different temptations and crosses to bear in life (not just of sexual nature) and homosexuality is just one of them.
 
What is everyones oppinion of Gay Or Lesbian Couples. Are they any less of a person because of their choice in partner.
I think that they are made in the immage of God and are no bettor or worse than heterosexuals.
Should they be treated any differently because they prefer their own sex.
No, except that the Church in her wisdom (which I do not always understand or agree with, but I try to ascent to) says that same sex couples cannot marry - so that’s a difference in how they’d be treated I suppose. As far how we should treat them, we should treat them like any other person. We are all sinners, some of our sins are visible and others are not.
 
I have no problem with homosexual people. They are people. However, I do have a problem with indulging desire and this goes for ANY sin.

Just because I have a desire does not mean I should act on it. In fact in denying the desire (whether it be sexual or emotional in nature) there is a great deal of victory.

The homosexual friends I have live the homosexual lifestyle to the max - they encourage their friends (including me) to have sex with anyone who comes along. They bounce from partner to partner. They mix and mesh religions until they’ve created a new religion that agrees with their life choices. So I’ve seen the worst of this lifestyle, but I also recognize not everyone with that particular desire is going to behave in the worst way.

No sinner is greater or lesser then another so I treat all people with love and respect. That doesn’t mean I have to accept every action they make. 🤷

I hope I didn’t ramble too much. 🙂
 
Homosexual persons versus “homosexual acts” are two different things.
Gay Marriage would fall under “homosexual acts” by definition, and is wrong and sinful (sodomy).
Those practicing homosexual acts may not receive Holy Communion.

See the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” first printed in the US in March of 2000.
See definition of homosexuality on page 882.
Then go to paragrah 2357 on page 566 for the reasons that homosexual acts can not be approved for any reason, including footnote references to the Bible.

All sexual acts between any unmarried persons (marriage defined as between one man and one woman) is sinful.
 
IMHO, the problem is that we’ve swung from one bad state of affairs–that is, the situation where homosexuality was the contemporary equivalent of leprosy, to the point that it was too often a thing that drove people to suicide–to a state of affairs where it is deemed the legitimate equal to heterosexual relationships. This is compounded by the problem that secular society’s view of sexuality and reproduction in general is just as skewed as its view of homosexuality in particular, and perhaps more so. Now it is chastity in general and celibacy in particular that are viewed as the disordered conditions, and license that is viewed not only as humankind’s inevitable condition, but as an essential part of self-realization. In that case, why wouldn’t homosexuality be the same as heterosexuality? “Serial monogamy” offers the tightest boundaries that most seem to want to consent to, and frankly, I don’t think polygamy is far behind. (How else is a bi-sexual going to arrive at full self-realization?) There are even organizations such as NAMBLA that seek to normalize pederasty. This is taking today’s “if you can’t stop a behavior, then embrace it, because it must just be who you are, and besides, who does it hurt?” mentality to its logical extreme. It has come to the point that redefining sexual mores to fit whatever it is that you happen to want is the prevailing sexual “ethic” of the day, everyone for himself, broken hearts happen, and the devil take the hindmost.

Society is incredibly ambiguous about reproduction, too, with some thinking every adult capable of feeding and reading to one ought to have the right to have a child, regardless of what scientific intervention or familial gymnastics is required, while others would have us sterilized the moment we’ve reproduced sufficiently to provide for our replacement when we’re dead. In any event, children are viewed almost as a commodity, as something the parents have a right to have or something that society has a right to regulate.

In the light of all these odd attitudes concerning sex, I can hardly blame a homosexual who has come to the conclusion that there is nothing disordered about their choice. If there is nothing disordered about it, then of course seeking to confine one’s sexuality to a commited relationship like one sees in all the romantic tragedies and comedies is not only an attractive sentimental choice, but is admirable, in a way. Of course it is within their rights to seek societal recognition that not only allows their choice, but that declares it to have positive societal value. In the midst of all the chaos of what passes for sexual mores in these times, theirs is a grasp at stability and responsibility, and not just external validation. Mistaken though I believe their efforts to be, one can hardly blame them. Once you have become accustomed to life after falling down inside this insane rabbit hole, homosexual “marriage” looks a very sane and reasonable choice.
 
In my oppinion if its right for a men and a women to get married then why can it not
be the same for gay and lesbian couples.

Does it not say in the bible “love your fellow man”

So then why is it frowed on by some religions that they should not love their fellow being?

Louisa
Oh, it’s to be the Bible, is it? OK. Let’s look at what it actually says.

1 Cor 6:9-10
9 Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, 10 Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind
, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.*
    • “masculorum concubitores”; a “concubitor” (masculine) being a bedfellow
Rom 1:26-27
26 For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. 27 And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error.


In addition to the inspired words of St. Paul, let’s have a look at the Torah while we’re here:

Lev 18:22
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, because it is an abomination.

Lev 20:13
13 If any one lie with a man as with a woman, both have committed an abomination, let them be put to death: their blood be upon them.


So that’s all pretty clear. Homosexual acts are very, very sinful.

That is a seperate issue from how to treat homosexuals as people, of course. As people they deserve our love and respect. Part of loving them and respecting them means telling them the consequences of their choices, including the danger of Hell. If someone was about to open a door that you knew had a wild tiger on the other side, wouldn’t you warn him so that he wouldn’t get devoured by the tiger? It would actually be pretty cold to just stand there and not say anything.

We don’t support gay ‘marriage’ because it isn’t marriage. We don’t condone homosexual sex because it is so evil it can send a person to Hell. We don’t encourage our brothers and sisters in sin because we love them, and we love God in Whose image they are made. We don’t condone any pollution of the human body because it is the temple of the Holy Spirit.
 
Homosexual persons versus “homosexual acts” are two different things.
Gay Marriage would fall under “homosexual acts” by definition, and is wrong and sinful (sodomy).
Those practicing homosexual acts may not receive Holy Communion.

See the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” first printed in the US in March of 2000.
See definition of homosexuality on page 882.
Then go to paragrah 2357 on page 566 for the reasons that homosexual acts can not be approved for any reason, including footnote references to the Bible.

All sexual acts between any unmarried persons (marriage defined as between one man and one woman) is sinful.
The Catechism and Compendium are also available online, at the Vatican’s web site: vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

You can alse use search engines such as Google and combinations such as:
“catechism of the catholic church” homosexuality, and choose the result that comes up from the Vatican’s web site.
**Chastity and homosexuality **
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
**2358 **The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
**2359 **Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
140 Cf. Gen 191-29; Rom 124-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10.
**141 **CDF, Persona humana 8.
So there you are. That’s the way to think about it.
 
In my oppinion if its right for a men and a women to get married then why can it not
be the same for gay and lesbian couples.

Does it not say in the bible “love your fellow man”

So then why is it frowed on by some religions that they should not love their fellow being?

Louisa
I love my children. Actually, the love between a parent and a child is probably some of the strongest love there can be between two human beings.

Loving them doesn’t mean I let them do things that are wrong just because it feels good.

If I let my kids eat nothing but chocolate and drink nothing but orange pop it might make them happy (in the short term), but it wouldn’t be right.

If I let my kids treat people poorly, have bad manners, and use people for whatever they can get out of them, my kids might be happy- but it wouldn’t be right.

If I let my kids completely ignore any sort of education because they didn’t like to do it, they might be happy- but it wouldn’t be right.

As a parent I have to see things in the long term. I have more life experience and wisdom than my six year old and I understand the long-term consequences of actions. Because I love my children, I do not let them do everything they want to do. I do what is best for them, even if it does not always make them happy.

That is true love- desiring the best for a person and helping them work towards being the best they can be, so they can be TRULY happy. Long-term, eternal happiness.

It is pretty obvious from the way our bodies are designed what God had in mind concerning sexual relations. Throughout nature we see similar designs. So we can say with reasonable assuredness that we know what is normal in terms of the mechanics of sex. That’s natural law.

As Christians, we have the scriptures. Throughout the Bible- both Old and New Testament- it is repeatedly reinforced that God expects sex to occur between a man and a woman who are married to one another. Sex outside of marriage is considered a sin. There are no references to sex being not sinful outside of marriage, nor are their any references to marriage between a man and a man or a woman and woman being acceptable before God. So that is the Sacred Scripture aspect of it.

As Catholics, we have the Magesterium of the Church- the Church’s ability to speak authoritatively on matters concerning faith and morals. It’s also known as the teaching office of the Church. It was given to the Church by Christ in Sacred Scripture. The Church has always upheld that sexual relations are to be reserved for marriage, that marriage is a sacrament, and that marraige occurs only between one man and one woman, and that they are bound to that marriage until death. The Church has always upheld that all persons are called to chastity according to their state in life.

So we have three authorities- Natural Law, Sacred Scripture, and the Church- who are all consistently teaching us the same things. There is no reason that we cannot reasonably assume to know God’s mind on homosexual relations considering all the information and teaching He has given us.

Every person is called to be chaste according to their state in life. Unmarried people are called to be celibate; sexual relations are to be reserved for marraige. Marriage is limited to being between one man and one woman.

Therefore, a man may not marry a man and a woman may not marry a woman. Since they are not married (regardless of their ‘orientation’) they cannot be sexually active- with anyone. It works the same for single heterosexual people.

Some people argue that because they have this internal desire or attraction for someone of the same gender, it must be from God. I have a very strong internal desire to be lazy and to overeat. I would not argue these are from God. These are all part of a lovely thing called Original Sin. If I allowed myself to be excessively lazy or indulgent regarding food, that would be sinful. If people act on their homosexul inclinations, that is similarly sinful. God expects us to rise above such inclinations to achieve holiness.

To answer your original questions: no, a person with homosexual attractions is no less of a person than any other person. All people are made in the image and likeness of God and deserve to be treated as such. WHich is why they are held to the same standard as everyone else and expected to refrain from sinning, live a holy life, and frequent the sacraments.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top