Homosexuals Hijack Christian Fish Symbol

  • Thread starter Thread starter JimmytheGent
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
El Paulo-

What do you propose would be a better term for those homosexuals who actively campaign and lobby for broader acceptance of an active homosexual lifestyle?

I’m pretty sure I’ve been clear as to my meaning but I welcome any clarification if it would help to further truthful discussion.

Thanks.
 
Jennifer123 said:
El Paulo-

What do you propose would be a better term for those homosexuals who actively campaign and lobby for broader acceptance of an active homosexual lifestyle?

I’m pretty sure I’ve been clear as to my meaning but I welcome any clarification if it would help to further truthful discussion.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
I’m not being facetious, but I think you’ve given it in your post…
homosexuals who actively campaign and lobby for broader acceptance of an active homosexual lifestyle
Click to expand...
As far as I know, there isn’t (and probably can’t be) a short-hand for this definition - what you’ve written above is a considered and careful definition which takes into account the subtleties of this issue - it’s a mouthful but at least I know what you mean as well as who, and who you are not, referring to. 🙂
 
setter said:
I would be appalled at the naiveté of any serious Catholic who would adopt the label ‘gay rights activist’ in their effort to promulgate orthodox Church teaching and outreach to SSA afflicted individuals.
Click to expand...
Please explain? 🙂
 
Homosexuals are Catholics too(at least some) so they do have thright to use a Catholic symbol.
 
You cannot be ‘gay’ and a Catholic/Christian… its one or the other.
pablo_rafael said:
I would just like to add a personal opinion.

I think the rainbow fish symbol is a great symbol for those of us who are both gay and Christian. It was a symbol first used by those who were under persecution and forced to worship in secret, something we gay Christians can easily relate to.

Gay Catholics have to stand against two forces. We must deal with those in the church who think we are degenerate rejects who don’t measure up to the high standards of everyone else. We also have to deal with those homosexuals who use their orientation to promote all manner of immorality and vulgarity.

Most of the gay people I have been associated with are strongly religious, faithful church-goers, live decent lives and have no desire to promote anything immoral. A surprising number are teachers(like me) or other church workers. We are not the gays you see on TV or in other media. We are decent people who want to be loved for who we are and want to be able to express our faith along with others who belong to the body of Christ.

For me the rainbow fish symbol is perfect.

Pablo
Click to expand...
 
Jeffrey said:
You cannot be ‘gay’ and a Catholic/Christian… its one or the other.
Click to expand...
Jesus did not say ‘If anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me, unless he’s homosexual’.
 
Mirdath said:
Jesus did not say ‘If anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me, unless he’s homosexual’.
Click to expand...
Taking up the cross of dying to one’s own selfish and sinful desires and actions and former lifestyle not based on the truth of God’s love. “Gay” in its common cultural understanding connotes one who is active in the homosexual lifestyle or at least condoning of such. Jesus began his public ministry with these words “repent and believe”.
 
Very well put.
setter said:
Taking up the cross of dying to one’s own selfish and sinful desires and actions and former lifestyle not based on the truth of God’s love. “Gay” in its common cultural understanding connotes one who is active in the homosexual lifestyle or at least condoning of such. Jesus began his public ministry with these words “repent and believe”.
Click to expand...
 
As long as homosexuals COMPLETELY avoid ANY homosexual behaviors, then they can be good Catholics.

That being said, homsexuality itself is a great evil.
 
lak611 said:
Do you believe the Church’s teaching about chastity?
Click to expand...
Personally I believe for me that chastity is the path that God has called me to. In my work in the church I have chosen a path that does not offend others of the faith.

However, I do not feel God has called all people to be single. Some people are not able to follow that path (as Saint Paul addresses). I believe in monogamous, lifelong relationships whether they be heterosexual or homosexual.

I am a fairly recent convert to the Catholic church and a lot of my Lutheran upbringing shows through. I don’t believe in the teachings of the church just because someone higher up has decreed it; I, as Pope Benedict himself, believe that doctrines must be based on the Bible. I don’t see anywhere in the Bible where lifelong, committed same-sex relationships are prohibited.

That view is not just my own either. If you are interested, look at the writings of Jesuit Father John J. McNeil. You could also look at the gay Catholic orgnization Dignity USA. (Yes, there is a gay Catholic organization.) Also a quick look at what the Bible says about homosexuality can be quickly downloaded from Mel White’s booklet at soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible Only look at the above works if you are open to seeing things in a new way.

I left the protestant church beacuse I found Catholics to be less judgemental and more willing to put faith into practice. I admire the social activism of the Catholic church and its reverance for the Word of God. I have found the warmth and openess of my Catholic community a blessing from the Lord.

Pablo
 
Disagree all ya want… you cannot be Catholic/Christian and ‘gay’. It doesn’t work that way.
El_Paulo said:
I disagree strongly. 🙂

…and ended it (scripture also says) with the words, “forgive them father…”

Just to add a bit of balence.
Click to expand...
 
Jeffrey said:
Disagree all ya want… you cannot be Catholic/Christian and ‘gay’. It doesn’t work that way.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I will! 😉

What concerns me is this - why are you so sure that this is true? As the early Jewish Christians found out, it is impossible to draw circles within the Church that rule anybody in or out, because they usually tend to be the wrong shape or size. Christians today do this at their peril, IMO, because if they do, they may be in real danger of excluding Christ himself.

There is a well known phrase - “your God is too small…”
  • I would like to suggest another one that Jesus might be saying to us here: “your Church is too small”. When Jesus ‘stood at the door and knocked’ (Rev 3:20) that is exactly what he was saying, “open the door. I am not in there as you suppose but out here!” And a Church without Christ is no Church at all. Christ speaks though many people today who are gagging to be in his kingdom and I think we need to recognise in them the voice of Christ - Jesus’ request is simply to open the door - but the bit that follows is the real clincher: are we prepared to sup with him when we let him in.
I am convinced that what Jesus doesn’t say to us is, “your church is not perfect enough, you’ve got to kick people out”.

Peace.
 
setter said:
Taking up the cross of dying to one’s own selfish and sinful desires and actions and former lifestyle not based on the truth of God’s love. “Gay” in its common cultural understanding connotes one who is active in the homosexual lifestyle or at least condoning of such. Jesus began his public ministry with these words “repent and believe”.
Click to expand...
There are good, faithful Catholic homosexuals on these very boards for whom I have a lot of respect who use that term to describe themselves, even though they aren’t having sex.
 
setter said:
Taking up the cross of dying to one’s own selfish and sinful desires and actions and former lifestyle not based on the truth of God’s love. “Gay” in its common cultural understanding connotes one who is active in the homosexual lifestyle or at least condoning of such. Jesus began his public ministry with these words “repent and believe”.
Click to expand...
If I may add to this good explanation, the term “gay rights activist” *I would argue *means the same as the label “homosexual activist” that I tried my best to define earlier, at least within secular common useage and understanding.
IMHO it commonly denotes one who supports the rights of homosexuals to be active without “judgement” or condemnation of the lifestyle.
The use of the “rainbow” is troubling IMHO because it is used by the gay community to signify “pride”. Faithful Catholics should take no pride in their sinfulness, regardless of transgression. It could signify, at least to me, somewhat of a condoning of homosexual behavior to me and others, especially gays who are very well aware of what the “rainbow” means. It is pandering none the less, and that too is offensive. We are definately more than our sexual urges, and we shouldn’t condone people defining themselves based on sexual behavior, it is demeaning. The Church teaches this, and the use of a rainbow fish is ultimately contradictory.
 
pablo_rafael said:
Personally I believe for me that chastity is the path that God has called me to. In my work in the church I have chosen a path that does not offend others of the faith.

However, I do not feel God has called all people to be single. Some people are not able to follow that path (as Saint Paul addresses). I believe in monogamous, lifelong relationships whether they be heterosexual or homosexual.

I am a fairly recent convert to the Catholic church and a lot of my Lutheran upbringing shows through. I don’t believe in the teachings of the church just because someone higher up has decreed it; I, as Pope Benedict himself, believe that doctrines must be based on the Bible. I don’t see anywhere in the Bible where lifelong, committed same-sex relationships are prohibited.

That view is not just my own either. If you are interested, look at the writings of Jesuit Father John J. McNeil. You could also look at the gay Catholic orgnization Dignity USA. (Yes, there is a gay Catholic organization.) Also a quick look at what the Bible says about homosexuality can be quickly downloaded from Mel White’s booklet at soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible Only look at the above works if you are open to seeing things in a new way.

I left the protestant church beacuse I found Catholics to be less judgemental and more willing to put faith into practice. I admire the social activism of the Catholic church and its reverance for the Word of God. I have found the warmth and openess of my Catholic community a blessing from the Lord.

Pablo
Click to expand...
Pablo-

Thank you for your post. Welcome to the Church, I am glad you’ve come home!! 👍

I do want to say though that the Church is clear about this - homosexuality is intrisically disordered. I am glad you are chaste, but it is not a choice. The Church calls for chasity in all vocations, even within marriage. Active homosexuality is condemned by the Church, even though the homosexual isn’t. I pray you know the difference and make the right choice to try to live within the teachings of the Church, as we all must as faithful Catholics. God entrusted that His teachings be known to all throughout time and eternity through the Catholic Church and all her Magisterial teachings are “biblical”. Please be assured of this. 😉 🙂

I think this recent thread is interesting with regards to Church teaching on the subject:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=127630

I must say that you may be in spiritual danger by associating with the teachings of John McNeil and Dignity USA. From Mr. McNeil’s own website:
“In 1988, he received a further order from Cardinal Ratzinger directing him to give up all ministry to gay persons which he refused to do in conscience. As a result, he was expelled by the Vatican from the Society of Jesus (Jesuits) for challenging the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church on the issue of homosexuality, and for refusing to give up his ministry and psychotherapy practice to gay men and lesbians.”

Mr. McNeil is not in good standing with the Church, and regardless of whether you agree or disagree, his defiance in the face of hierarchy is troubling, as is the defiance of the organization Dignity, which is not a recognized ministry in the Church for good reason.

Please take a moment and search the Courage website:
couragerc.net/

I pray that you will find peace and charity in this thread and in the Church.
 
francesco920 said:
As long as homosexuals COMPLETELY avoid ANY homosexual behaviors, then they can be good Catholics.

That being said, homsexuality itself is a great evil.
Click to expand...
That’s not accurate…if a homosexual intends and does their best to avoid homosexual behaviors and confesses when he does, then he can be a good Catholic. (or she)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top