Homosexuals immune to Mass. budget cuts

[Kolbe300]

Not a sin, but the inclination is not ordered rightly.

Thanks fix, I think that is worded perfectly. My orientation is not ordered towards marriage and procreation. My having that orientation, while being a trial (and at times a royal pain in the…), is not sinful. I, like everyone, will have to fight off any lustful thoughts that try to creep their way in. I won’t, however, be ashamed or feel guilty for an orientation or simple attractions that I didn’t choose. I did that for so many years before I knew better (before I sought the spiritual direction that was so needed). That is the reason my heart goes out to the young people dealing with this. I’ve been there and it is an utterly miserable place to be.

latinmasslover said:

Your previous posts seemed to imply that there’s no problem with “shouting it from the rooftops.” Close friends and family ought to know, for the reasons that you mentioned but also to help you in times of temptation, to encourage you to stay chaste.

I apologize if it appeared as if I thought things should be shouted from the rooftops. That being said, there are many, many people out there who are in need of finding hope from someone who has been down (and continues to travel) that road. If the chaste homosexual can’t be honest and lend a hand of hope, who can? Someone shouting from the rooftop that hope can be found and the truth can be lived might actually not always be such a bad thing.

I missed that, what sin/s did he proclaim to the public? I highly doubt any brought it up of their own volition. If addressed, they probably admitted it, but with shameful remorse, not as a matter of fact. Just my guess, but I am open to hearing of a contrary instance.

I’ll get back to you with a specific example. My good friend is reading the book as we speak. I’m still confused about this though. I always walk away from a book about a saint amazed at how sinful they thought they were and admitted to being. It is a recurring theme for so many of them. They’ve never come across to me as being ashamed to admit that.

It is a desire that, if acted upon or imagined, is sinful. Just like adultery, just like fornication, and murder, idol worship, stealing…the list goes on.

I agree with you, IF the desire is sinful, such as lust. Simply finding something attractive or beautiful is not in and of itself sinful at all. Hence, the orientation itself not being a sin. It isn’t sinful for a married man to find a woman he isn’t married to beautiful or attractive. If he goes places he shouldn’t either with his mind or his body, that is a different story. It’s the same for all of us, a part of being human I suppose.

So I assume you wouldn’t want to be bunched in with the “gay rights” activists? That was the point I had attempted to make.

You’re right, I don’t want to be bunched in with activists and I understand your point. I was making a point as well in that I should be able to be honest about my sexuality without being put into any group at all.

love my bro in Christ anyway:hug1:

Right back at ya!

Latinmasslover, I appreciate the spirited debate and I do apologize if I came across as harsh. I’ve been on this board for a while and found myself in a situation I truly hadn’t imagined. It seems as if I’m always fighting for BOTH sides. I’m a devout Catholic, I believe in the Church and her teachings. At the same time, I have endless compassion and hope for every gay person on this planet. I see both sides mistreating the other and feel completely stuck in the middle. Hard core gay rights activists wouldn’t like me in the least. At the same time, many Catholics jump to immediate and often times incorrect conclusions anytime a person stands up for homosexual persons. If I had a dollar for every time I’ve been accused of supporting gay rights and the “gay lifestyle” I’d be rich. Yet, I’ve never done either. It gets to be exhausting. I hope that makes sense.

JPUSC and Lujack, thank you very much for your (name removed by moderator)ut as well. I’ve appreciated it immensely. I’m all for the group hug, by the way.

Peace and prayers for the new president!

 

[buffalo]

Thanks fix, I think that is worded perfectly. My orientation is not ordered towards marriage and procreation. My having that orientation, while being a trial (and at times a royal pain in the…), is not sinful. I, like everyone, will have to fight off any lustful thoughts that try to creep their way in. I won’t, however, be ashamed or feel guilty for an orientation or simple attractions that I didn’t choose. I did that for so many years before I knew better (before I sought the spiritual direction that was so needed). That is the reason my heart goes out to the young people dealing with this. I’ve been there and it is an utterly miserable place to be.

latinmasslover said:

I apologize if it appeared as if I thought things should be shouted from the rooftops. That being said, there are many, many people out there who are in need of finding hope from someone who has been down (and continues to travel) that road. If the chaste homosexual can’t be honest and lend a hand of hope, who can? Someone shouting from the rooftop that hope can be found and the truth can be lived might actually not always be such a bad thing.

I’ll get back to you with a specific example. My good friend is reading the book as we speak. I’m still confused about this though. I always walk away from a book about a saint amazed at how sinful they thought they were and admitted to being. It is a recurring theme for so many of them. They’ve never come across to me as being ashamed to admit that.

I agree with you, IF the desire is sinful, such as lust. Simply finding something attractive or beautiful is not in and of itself sinful at all. Hence, the orientation itself not being a sin. It isn’t sinful for a married man to find a woman he isn’t married to beautiful or attractive. If he goes places he shouldn’t either with his mind or his body, that is a different story. It’s the same for all of us, a part of being human I suppose.

You’re right, I don’t want to be bunched in with activists and I understand your point. I was making a point as well in that I should be able to be honest about my sexuality without being put into any group at all.

Right back at ya!

Latinmasslover, I appreciate the spirited debate and I do apologize if I came across as harsh. I’ve been on this board for a while and found myself in a situation I truly hadn’t imagined. It seems as if I’m always fighting for BOTH sides. I’m a devout Catholic, I believe in the Church and her teachings. At the same time, I have endless compassion and hope for every gay person on this planet. I see both sides mistreating the other and feel completely stuck in the middle. Hard core gay rights activists wouldn’t like me in the least. At the same time, many Catholics jump to immediate and often times incorrect conclusions anytime a person stands up for homosexual persons. If I had a dollar for every time I’ve been accused of supporting gay rights and the “gay lifestyle” I’d be rich. Yet, I’ve never done either. It gets to be exhausting. I hope that makes sense.

JPUSC and Lujack, thank you very much for your (name removed by moderator)ut as well. I’ve appreciated it immensely. I’m all for the group hug, by the way.

Peace and prayers for the new president!

You have been honest, forthright and trying to live a Catholic life carrying your cross. (we all have one) As a Catholic and brother I cannot ask you to do more. You have my support.

As you can see many activists come here trying to sell the act.

 

[Lujack]

I never said that the homosexual “orientation” is sinful. I said that desiring a sin is sinful, any sin, whether gay or straight, white or black, male or female.

I apologize, I misread that.

Making it common knowlege is more what I was referring to, not telling the “necessary” people. I should’ve been more specific.

I admit that I’m not familiar with St. Augustine; please give a reference for when he, of his own volition, vocally announced his sin/s.

No argument.

What attack are you referring to? The bullets flew both ways, based on a slight misunderstanding - on both sides. Whether or not that was the only misunderstanding has yet to be seen, but I think it’s pretty clear now what we all meant…

:grouphug: ?

:grouphug:

I guess this all just goes to show how important language is in debating. As it turns out, we were all saying the same thing with slightly different words.

Hooray for discussion!

 

[Kolbe300]

You have been honest, forthright and trying to live a Catholic life carrying your cross. (we all have one) As a Catholic and brother I cannot ask you to do more. You have my support.

As you can see many activists come here trying to sell the act.

Thanks buffalo, I really appreciate it. You and everyone else on the boards are in my prayers. And I do see how many activists show up as well. This battle has many fronts.

Peace!

 

[MALACHYONE]

You take a much narrower view of schools than most people do. How can a school teach history if they can’t oppose racism? What does the history teacher say about Martin Luther King, and how does he/she approach Woodrow Wilson resegregating the federal government?

Besides, the school may not be able to say that the parents are wrong, but they certainly can refuse to permit that sort of behavior within their hallways, and explain, in no uncertain terms, why they do not.

It applies to everybody, yes. But so does a general prohibition against slurs, with a focus on those slurs that are most common in the school. A school can both make it clear that no slurs of any kind are acceptable, and deal with those specific slurs that prevent a common problem.

Standing up for yourself can go a long way. At some point, it has to be done, but at other times, adult intervention is needed. While action can be indoctrinating, inaction can be equally so.

While Mr. Smith sends a message by taking action when he hears Joey call Johnny a “f____”, doesn’t he also send a message if witnesses that incident and walks by without doing anything?

It didn’t stop them from being gay, and it didn’t stop a man who known by almost everyone in Washington as gay from being president of the United States, something that could never happen today.

A society where vigilantism against a group is acceptable, such as the vigilantism and ostracism that was applied to gays in the past, makes it much easier for that vigilantism and ostracism to be directed towards any minority group, including Catholics

Perhaps we should let this one drop, because that’s an entirely different can of worms that could wind up as multiple threads.

I don’t think its a bleeding heart mentality as much as its a protective mentality. The Church is a shepherd to all sheep, Catholic or not and sinner or not. While it is a duty of the shepherd to rebuke the wayward sheep (whether the reason it wandered off the path is for homosexuality or anything else), it is also the duty of that shepherd to fight the wolves away, no matter which sheep they attack.

Yes, “go now and sin no more”, but even if she persisted in her sin, Christ would still have protected her from being stoned.

Even if she chose not to, though, Christ was still not going to permit her death. Even if the sheep is wayward, the shepherd will still protect it.

A gay person could certainly accept Christ. They just would not be confessing homosexuality as a sin, or would they see “their sexual identity” as a sin.

A homosexual cannot confess his/her sexual orientation as a sin when it is just how God made them. Otherwise, they sin just like all of us.

The Church asking a homosexual to be celibate for a lifetime is as absurd as asking heterosexuals to do so.

Even priests who are asked to do so have great difficulty with celibacy and I can only guess the number/percent who cannot sustain their celibate vows.

 

[buffalo]

A gay person could certainly accept Christ. They just would not be confessing homosexuality as a sin, or would they see “their sexual identity” as a sin.

A homosexual cannot confess his/her sexual orientation as a sin when it is just how God made them. Otherwise, they sin just like all of us.

The Church asking a homosexual to be celibate for a lifetime is as absurd as asking heterosexuals to do so.

Even priests who are asked to do so have great difficulty with celibacy and I can only guess the number/percent who cannot sustain their celibate vows.

So we are really just brutes with absolutely no self control.

There are 4 vocations. Three of them are celibate. The only one not is married.

So, your claim is because something is hard don’t ask anyone to do it?

 

[latinmasslover]

A gay person could certainly accept Christ. They just would not be confessing homosexuality as a sin, or would they see “their sexual identity” as a sin.

A homosexual cannot confess his/her sexual orientation as a sin when it is just how God made them. Otherwise, they sin just like all of us.

The Church asking a homosexual to be celibate for a lifetime is as absurd as asking heterosexuals to do so.

Even priests who are asked to do so have great difficulty with celibacy and I can only guess the number/percent who cannot sustain their celibate vows.

Does this mean I don’t have to confess murderous thoughts? How dare God or the Church expect me to keep my anger in check!

 

[MALACHYONE]

Homosexual behavior is not evil. It is sinful, but there’s a difference.

Homosexuals were made by our Lord. Their sexual acts are as normal for them as heterosexual acts, I think, are normal to you.

God does not make bad stuff. Period.

They should no more confess as a sin their sexual relations especially those based on mutual love and affection, caring etc.
than any heterosexual.

Some of you do not have anyone who is/was a homosexual in your immediate family or dear friendships. Most of you are “how many angels would fit on the end of a pin” Catholics.

Ones heart knows what is wrong and doesn’t need the opinion of the Holy Father who has never known sexual relations of either kind.

I cannot understand those here and elsewhere that visualize sexual relations that homosexuals have! How do you know which or what they decide to do, if any. Both are capable of all of the same forms of “love making”, but both don’t necessarily use all of the possibilities. Or any. Did you ever think of that? Homosexuality is more than about sex.

I think God smiles or even laughs at all the people who spend so much time indicting homosexuals, looking up quotes etc. Maybe I think, rather, He just laughs. But, alot of these folks, it has been shown in clinical work, are latent homosexuals and detest themselves. Sad.

A wily old worldly Vicar General once told me, “Malachy, as to what is the truth in this, leave it to God to decide.”

You people who keep wanting to call what comes naturally to gays and lesbians as sins etc., let me tell you that you do hurt many of us who care about our beloved brothers, sisters, friends etc.

YOU ENCOURAGE THE PEOPLE WHO KILL THE MATHEW SHEPARDS. YOU BETCHA!!!

God Bless Us All

 

[buffalo]

Homosexuals were made by our Lord. Their sexual acts are as normal for them as heterosexual acts, I think, are normal to you.

God does not make bad stuff. Period.

They should no more confess as a sin their sexual relations especially those based on mutual love and affection, caring etc.
than any heterosexual.

Some of you do not have anyone who is/was a homosexual in your immediate family or dear friendships. Most of you are “how many angels would fit on the end of a pin” Catholics.

Ones heart knows what is wrong and doesn’t need the opinion of the Holy Father who has never known sexual relations of either kind.

I cannot understand those here and elsewhere that visualize sexual relations that homosexuals have! How do you know which or what they decide to do, if any. Both are capable of all of the same forms of “love making”, but both don’t necessarily use all of the possibilities. Or any. Did you ever think of that? Homosexuality is more than about sex.

I think God smiles or even laughs at all the people who spend so much time indicting homosexuals, looking up quotes etc. Maybe I think, rather, He just laughs. But, alot of these folks, it has been shown in clinical work, are latent homosexuals and detest themselves. Sad.

A wily old worldly Vicar General once told me, “Malachy, as to what is the truth in this, leave it to God to decide.”

You people who keep wanting to call what comes naturally to gays and lesbians as sins etc., let me tell you that you do hurt many of us who care about our beloved brothers, sisters, friends etc.

YOU ENCOURAGE THE PEOPLE WHO KILL THE MATHEW SHEPARDS. YOU BETCHA!!!

God Bless Us All

Everyone was made by our lord. Did that prevent the free-will choice of Stalin, Hitler, etc… to choose the side of evil?

 

[MALACHYONE]

It Is Hopeless Trying To Educate Some Of You.

This Is Comparing Apples And Oranges.

You Begin Your Premise With Homophobia.

Homosexuals Are Guilty In Your Eyes Of Sinning Just For Being What God Made Them

Therefore You Will Never Be Able To Arrive At A Truth About This

You Call Them Or What They Do Evil

I Charge You With Being Even More Evil.
And In Gods Name

Get Off Of This And Go After The Pedaphiles And Unfaithful Priests In The Church

 

[JPUSC]

I am sorry that you have encountered some homophobia with a few individuals who claim to be Catholic. Those with SSA are not evil and I am certain that God will look with mercy on them as we are all imperfect sinners trying to get by in this sinful world. The best we can do now is to pray for each other and for an end to injustice.

I hope that you can eventually find your way back to the Church, which stands up for the dignity of all life, whether it is the unborn, the poor, the oppressed, the lonely, the dejected.

Catechism on persons with same-sex-attraction

2358 They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

Human life is a journey. Towards what destination? How do we find the way? Life is like a voyage on the sea of history, often dark and stormy, a voyage in which we watch for the stars that indicate the route. The true stars of our life are the people who have lived good lives. They are lights of hope. Certainly, Jesus Christ is the true light, the sun that has risen above all the shadows of history. But to reach him we also need lights close by—people who shine with his light and so guide us along our way.

Pope Benedict XVI, Spe Salvi​

Eternal rest grant unto Matthew Shepard and all victims of hate crimes, O Lord. And let perpetual light shine upon them. May they rest in peace. Amen.

 

[buffalo]

It Is Hopeless Trying To Educate Some Of You.

This Is Comparing Apples And Oranges.

You Begin Your Premise With Homophobia.

Homosexuals Are Guilty In Your Eyes Of Sinning Just For Being What God Made Them

Therefore You Will Never Be Able To Arrive At A Truth About This

You Call Them Or What They Do Evil

I Charge You With Being Even More Evil.
And In Gods Name

Get Off Of This And Go After The Pedaphiles And Unfaithful Priests In The Church

Oh, you don’t really want to go there do you?

Do you want to learn more about the priest crimes? What will you say when you find out that the majority were homosexual crimes?

 

[MALACHYONE]

Thank you thank you thank you.

I could start attending the Church I did love so much if there were more messages like this to homosexuals and about them.

The poor ignorant people who keep ranting about the sinning of some of our loved ones who happen to be homosexuals, who keep harping against them …are causing uneducated people to think its ok to harp and hurt them.

I will fight these hateful people until I die, and I sometimes want to die rather than have to live with a Church full of such people, and with leaders who keep up the rant, even encouraging it.

I know there are many good people within, but we need them to speak out with love like you do.

I know God is blessing you.

 

[buffalo]

Thank you thank you thank you.

I could start attending the Church I did love so much if there were more messages like this to homosexuals and about them.

The poor ignorant people who keep ranting about the sinning of some of our loved ones who happen to be homosexuals, who keep harping against them …are causing uneducated people to think its ok to harp and hurt them.

I will fight these hateful people until I die, and I sometimes want to die rather than have to live with a Church full of such people, and with leaders who keep up the rant, even encouraging it.

I know there are many good people within, but we need them to speak out with love like you do.

I know God is blessing you.

The Church’s great call is to love the sinner and hate the sin. Do you love sin? Will you call it out where you see it?

 

[MALACHYONE]

My post of appreciation was for JPUSC.

Buffalo, like many rednecks and uneducated persons, thinks homosexuals are pedaphiles. He is sick for keeping up his rant.
Why, he should ask himself, is it so important to him to put this group of people down, to demean them, to cheer lead for the killers out there who literally thinks its ok then to do harm.

All you want to do when you hear this Robertson/Falwell blather is tell them to get some education and training in the area of sexuality.

And not at one of their colleges, like Bob Jones or Liberty, that teach this prejudice.

Other than being ignorant, what is it that motivates these people.

As for pedaphiles, they too need to be looked upon with compassion. I am strongly for the Catholic Church to begin a giant, monumental scientific project to find the cause of pedaphilia. Maybe someone will read this, or get the word of this idea…someone with millions they have made in this country, and will kick off this project…UNDER GOD.

IF anything can be discovered that makes heterosexuals and homosexuals better people, that would be good too. I happen to have been made a heterosexual, but my heart is full of hatred for people like Buffalo and I wish that wasn’t true. I just wish he/she wouldn’t come out any night.

 

[buffalo]

My post of appreciation was for JPUSC.

Buffalo, like many rednecks and uneducated persons, thinks homosexuals are pedaphiles. He is sick for keeping up his rant.
Why, he should ask himself, is it so important to him to put this group of people down, to demean them, to cheer lead for the killers out there who literally thinks its ok then to do harm.

All you want to do when you hear this Robertson/Falwell blather is tell them to get some education and training in the area of sexuality.

And not at one of their colleges, like Bob Jones or Liberty, that teach this prejudice.

Other than being ignorant, what is it that motivates these people.

As for pedaphiles, they too need to be looked upon with compassion. I am strongly for the Catholic Church to begin a giant, monumental scientific project to find the cause of pedaphilia. Maybe someone will read this, or get the word of this idea…someone with millions they have made in this country, and will kick off this project…UNDER GOD.

IF anything can be discovered that makes heterosexuals and homosexuals better people, that would be good too. I happen to have been made a heterosexual, but my heart is full of hatred for people like Buffalo and I wish that wasn’t true. I just wish he/she wouldn’t come out any night.

I do not hate you, I hate what you are standing for.

Pedophiles should be punished and many priest pedophiles have been as you will see below.

Now what exactly do we call a male person who sexually abuses a post pubescent boy?

You have to deal with the facts. Here they are. The John Jay Study -

 

[MALACHYONE]

You are sick Buffaloe, and although I worked with tons of sick ones like you during a long career, I do hate you. Sorry, thats how it is.

I got back here by accident, and will never address you again. You just go from sick to sicker.

I am proud of what I stand for: love, tolerance, understanding, compassion, forgiveness, and self awareness. You have none of the last, which is necessary for you to ever have any compassion for others who God didn’t make like you. By the way, how are you made. It would be interesting to know.

Lots of them like you entered therapy only to hold on to their prejudcie. Because you think you know everything and speak for God. (vomit) Are you a priest reared in Iowa with the folks making all the kids possible into priests, nuns etca and driving the rest nuts, or are you one of those born again nut crackers. Bye.

 

[buffalo]

You are sick Buffaloe, and although I worked with tons of sick ones like you during a long career, I do hate you. Sorry, thats how it is.

I got back here by accident, and will never address you again. You just go from sick to sicker.

I am proud of what I stand for: love, tolerance, understanding, compassion, forgiveness, and self awareness. You have none of the last, which is necessary for you to ever have any compassion for others who God didn’t make like you. By the way, how are you made. It would be interesting to know.

Lots of them like you entered therapy only to hold on to their prejudcie. Because you think you know everything and speak for God. (vomit) Are you a priest reared in Iowa with the folks making all the kids possible into priests, nuns etca and driving the rest nuts, or are you one of those born again nut crackers. Bye.

Won’t answer this though.

Now what exactly do we call a male person who sexually abuses a post pubescent boy?

See ya!

 

[MALACHYONE]

I do not hate you, I hate what you are standing for.

Pedophiles should be punished and many priest pedophiles have been as you will see below.

Now what exactly do we call a male person who sexually abuses a post pubescent boy?

You have to deal with the facts. Here they are. The John Jay Study - YOUR FACTS ARE ****. I HAVE STUDIED ALL THIS

 

[latinmasslover]

Homosexuals were made by our Lord. Their sexual acts are as normal for them as heterosexual acts, I think, are normal to you.

God does not make bad stuff. Period.

When I was a little girl I wanted to be an assassin…God made me that way, right? There’s nothing wrong with wanting to kill as long as it’s what I want? Let’s say that anger and hate are as normal for me as love and tolerance are to you; therefore, I shouldn’t have to fight the urge to act on my anger in any way that makes me feel better or confess the desire to, say, murder, true?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news (well, not really). You’re opinion is not approved by God. I’d like to know when Jesus approved of someone’s sin, when He gave the OK to do what He forbids.