honor of women in islam

[Sister_Amy]

MARRIAGE IN ISLAM

I love this ayah about married couples:

Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments.

The spouses are described as garments for each other–garments which protect a person, keep them safe, and beautify them. Garments are intimately close to the body and conceal faults.

And this one:

O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.

A person who gets married protects himself against the temptation to commit adultery or fornication. The spouses serve an integral part of the other’s life, and even if they dislike each other they still should deal with respect and kindness.

I’m sorry if I gave the impression it’s all about sex–it’s not. That’s only one part of the marriage. The Qur’an describes very beautifully I think how men and women are to each other, that they help and protect each other. To ensure that a spouse does not abuse the other, there are certain rights and responsibilities entitled to the husband and the wife–and therein, the rights of the wife, are a very significant part of Islam, the reason many women decide to embrace the religion. They acknowledge that they have different skills than a husband does, that they are more suited to taking care of children for example, so they embrace that and excel at it, without having to worry about supporting themselves financially as well.

A married couple is a team, a partnership, a cooperation–the couple has to work together, and each is more adapted to particular skills. Like I said, a man cannot breastfeed his baby. Men even quickly lose patience when trying to spoon feed young children, and with the crying and screaming. Mothers just naturally handle that better, and that is their strength. They are able to care for a child as it grows up. Mother’s Day is coming up soon, but in Islam mothers are honored every day for their very noble responsibility. The Prophet said “Paradise is at the feet of the mother.”

When someone asked the Prophet who he should honor and treat kindly the most, he told him, his mother. And the man asked again, who else, and the Prophet replied, his mother. And the man asked again and the Prophet told him a third time, his mother. And he asked again at which point the Prophet told him to honor his father. So mother is to be honored 3 times before honoring the father.

It’s a huge deal. Islam shows respect to women in that role, in a way that I think my own society yet refuses to do.

 

[AgnosTheist]

MARRIAGE IN ISLAM

I love this ayah about married couples:

Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments.

The spouses are described as garments for each other–garments which protect a person, keep them safe, and beautify them. Garments are intimately close to the body and conceal faults.

garments are useful but its still superficial. its a poor symbolism to use for relationships. nowhere near as powerful as the bible standard.

O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.

with the exception of lewdness, which is too open to interpretation. this verse is music to the ears of the jealous type.

the reason many women decide to embrace the religion.

…is largely because of marriages. another islamic sex discrimination: men could marry non-muslim women, but not the woman. (so it gives the illusion that more women convert to islam than men.)

A married couple is a team, a partnership, a cooperation–the couple has to work together, and each is more adapted to particular skills. Like I said, a man cannot breastfeed his baby. Men even quickly lose patience when trying to spoon feed young children, and with the crying and screaming. Mothers just naturally handle that better, and that is their strength. They are able to care for a child as it grows up.

all the more reason to trash the “cairo declarion of human rights in islam”, which discriminates against women.

Mother’s Day is coming up soon, but in Islam mothers are honored every day for their very noble responsibility.

you dont really honor your mothers any more than we do in a daily basis.

When someone asked the Prophet who he should honor and treat kindly the most, he told him, his mother.

this issue is really about wives, daughters & female neighbors.

 

[Sister_Amy]

garments are useful but its still superficial. its a poor symbolism to use for relationships. nowhere near as powerful as the bible standard.

that is entirely subjective.

with the exception of lewdness, which is too open to interpretation. this verse is music to the ears of the jealous type.

Actually… it’s not. Not “too open to interpretation,” that is. In fact, according to one scholar I tremendously respect (Sheikh Hamza Yusuf) it is actually haraam (for laypeople) to interpret the Qur’an–particularly verses like that, which deal in legal matters. That task is reserved for scholars, who are familiar with the whole Qur’an, it’s commentary and science, the biography of Muhammad, plenty of hadith, legal procedures and also the Arabic language. It’s not open to anyone’s interpretation, really, just that of scholars. And open lewdness is nearly akin to prostitution, open public fornication/adultery. And this would have to be ruled by a judge–else the dowry is hers.

…is largely because of marriages. another islamic sex discrimination: men could marry non-muslim women, but not the woman. (so it gives the illusion that more women convert to islam than men.)

That doesn’t make sense. Suppose a Christian woman marries a Muslim man. He is ALLOWED to marry a Christian woman, she doesn’t have to convert. So why should it give any illusion? Many women choose to–and that’s their choice. No illusions. But I PERSONALLY know many women like myself who converted long before marriage.

this issue is really about wives, daughters & female neighbors.

As a child and adolescent
Whoever has a daughter and he does not bury her alive, does not insult her, and does not favor his son over her, God will enter him into Paradise

As a wife
And among His Signs is this, that He created for you wives from among yourselves, that you may find repose in them, and He has put between you affection and mercy. Verily, in that are indeed signs for a people who reflect

 

[AgnosTheist]

Actually… it’s not. Not “too open to interpretation,” that is. In fact, according to one scholar I tremendously respect (Sheikh Hamza Yusuf) it is actually haraam (for laypeople) to interpret the Qur’an–particularly verses like that, which deal in legal matters. That task is reserved for scholars, who are familiar with the whole Qur’an, it’s commentary and science, the biography of Muhammad, plenty of hadith, legal procedures and also the Arabic language. It’s not open to anyone’s interpretation, really, just that of scholars. And open lewdness is nearly akin to prostitution, open public fornication/adultery. And this would have to be ruled by a judge–else the dowry is hers.

sometimes just talking to a boy is seen as open lewdness by a group of islamic judges. dont you agree? try to remember…hint: pakistan.

That doesn’t make sense. Suppose a Christian woman marries a Muslim man. He is ALLOWED to marry a Christian woman, she doesn’t have to convert. So why should it give any illusion? Many women choose to–and that’s their choice. No illusions. But I PERSONALLY know many women like myself who converted long before marriage.

1. what is the better chance of conversion, a spouse or a total stranger?
2. women gives a lot more to relationships than men. even if it means converting. in fact they sometimes even convert out of convenience but dont really practice islam. like one couple i personally know. & one mullah i heard complaining.

As a child and adolescent
Whoever has a daughter and he does not bury her alive, does not insult her, and does not favor his son over her, God will enter him into Paradise

other cultures simply say “thou shalt not kill”. but only in islam do daughters recieve half inheritances.

As a wife
And among His Signs is this, that He created for you wives from among yourselves, that you may find repose in them, and He has put between you affection and mercy. Verily, in that are indeed signs for a people who reflect

yeah as long as she is obedient. you know, if i am your muslim husband, i could have beaten you by now for not listening to me. its also some time that we have been sleeping apart. time for that last resort. whack

point is, you can get hurt even if you stubbornly believe that you are in the right.

 

[Sister_Amy]

sometimes just talking to a boy is seen as open lewdness by a group of islamic judges. dont you agree? try to remember…hint: pakistan.

1. what is the better chance of conversion, a spouse or a total stranger?

So you think they marry them to convert them? lol

1. women gives a lot more to relationships than men. even if it means converting. in fact they sometimes even convert out of convenience but dont really practice islam. like one couple i personally know. & one mullah i heard complaining.

Doesn’t change the facts.

other cultures simply say “thou shalt not kill”. but only in islam do daughters recieve half inheritances.

How much inheritance do women receive in other religions?

yeah as long as she is obedient. you know, if i am your muslim husband, i could have beaten you by now for not listening to me. its also some time that we have been sleeping apart. time for that last resort. whack

Yeah, right. I would have taken you to court eons ago and slapped your butt with a divorce.

 

[AgnosTheist]

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2104063.stm

like i said, theory is one thing, reality is another. lewdness is open to interpretation. Mohammad should not have given any excemptions to violence & sex discrimination.

So you think they marry them to convert them? lol

no, but conversion is part of the plan.

Doesn’t change the facts.

Of course it doesnt. More women still convert to islam than men. I just gave you the reasons why.

How much inheritance do women receive in other religions?

the same as what men get.

Yeah, right. I would have taken you to court eons ago and slapped your butt with a divorce.

Who cares, I have other wives better than you. And with you being financially dependent on me for years, with your lack of experience lets see what kinds of jobs you get here in our male-oriented islamic community.

 

[inJESUS]

inJESUS;3649978:

Is there a precedent for that in Islamic history? I’ve NEVER heard of it, and frankly it doesn’t strike me as something that would even be allowed. Egypt isn’t exactly the gold standard for islamic legislation, btw.

Egypt isn’t exactly the gold standard for islamic legislation,SA isn’t exactly the gold standard for islamic legislation,Pakistan isn’t exactly the gold standard for islamic legislation,Afghanistan isn’t exactly the gold standard for islamic legislation ecc…is there one country were correct Islam is taught? If Al-Azhar get things wrong, what is left? pick and choose what suits you in Islam?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Sister Amy;3650670:

Egypt isn’t exactly the gold standard for islamic legislation,SA isn’t exactly the gold standard for islamic legislation,Pakistan isn’t exactly the gold standard for islamic legislation,Afghanistan isn’t exactly the gold standard for islamic legislation ecc…is there one country were correct Islam is taught? If Al-Azhar get things wrong, what is left? pick and choose what suits you in Islam?

Egypt is a country with a self-interested government.
KSA is a country with a self-interested government.
Pakistan is a country with a self-interested government.
Afghanistan is a country with a self-interested government.

Al-Azhar is a university.

Countries these days do not abide by Islam. You can consult scholars, as Muslims should… not governments.

 

[Sister_Amy]

the same as what men get.

Says whom? In the USA a person can choose who he leaves his inheritance to–and can leave women without ANYthing! So what other religion actually dictates it? I’m not aware of any which does so.

Who cares, I have other wives better than you. And with you being financially dependent on me for years, with your lack of experience lets see what kinds of jobs you get here in our male-oriented islamic community.

Ah but I was never financially dependent on you, as I have been working since my youth and can move about in society as I please. I have experience and a college degree so I can work to support myself, or just find another husband better than you.

 

[inJESUS]

inJESUS;3651051:

Countries these days do not abide by Islam. You can consult scholars, as Muslims should… not governments.

even scholars disagree regarding many things…even the sahaba did not agree on all things…even the sahaba gave opposite teachings…so when you see something bad in Islam, you pick another one’s interpretation and everyone is happy, yet what is bad has its support in sunna as well…so we are left with : forget that scholar, forget that companion, forget that hadith, and draw to yourself the image you want to have on Islam.

Just like the beating of wives…sometimes you say men can beat their wifes…other times you say they are not the best if they do so…you can quote some scholars saying beating should be so light, you quote some nice quranic verses, but when it comes to history of green-faced women being beaten by her husband under Muhammad’s consent, and Aisha being hit by Muhammad, you are silent. This is the beef in Islam…pick the nice stuff and disregard the bad ones as weak hadith and israeliyyat and forgeries.

 

[R_not]

What part of my post is unbelievable, specifically? Tell me, specifically, without giving me 4-5 links to other websites attacking Islam and throwing out random irrelevant verses from the Qur’an. Specifically, what part of my post is unbelievable?

hhmmm, seems funny that you tell us that the koran has irrelevant verses while muslims don’t consider them irrelevent.

mohammed was ok with women being passed around as booty and enslaved which included rape and he was very direct in his telling his muslim males that they should never withdraw and waste their semen and they should indeed impregnant those slaves. Oh, I forgot - the rules are different when applied to infidels and muslims. (actually I didn’t forget - the muslims usually forget to tell us that though). this website talks about slavery and what they can do to those slaves - and that it is still practiced to this day.
answering-islam.org.uk/Silas/slavery.htm

This website includes an article and points to a video about the violent suppression of women in islam:
frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=0f42b7e9-f9e4-4838-99ea-208615c9bcf5
but it seems that it has been censored - a muslim tactic to censor free speech even in our countries is to whine that it is not true when it is indeed true. I save them off but do not have a website to let you view them.

Here is a list of videos on youtube if you put in the search words ‘oppression women islam’.
youtube.com/results?search_query=oppression+women+islam&search_type=

All people have to do is read jihadwatch.org and pay attention because every so often they bring up what is happening to women around the muslim world - and also in the USA. Quite often our own media and police do not report the incidences because of poltical correctness. I will not be politically correct to those who want us dead.

Basically, it is a chapter called ‘women’ in the koran. It was written during mohammed’s Medina period which is his violent period. mohammed had no concern for women - whenever he lusted after one he got her and added her to his harem. Even his own step son’s wife he took by creating a surah that said that allah wanted him to have her. And because of this lust for her and her being married to his stepson - he changed the rules of adoption for muslims. they cannot adopt. They can enslave and take as many wives as they want but they cannot adopt.

faithfreedom.org/oped/Bam40529.htm

If the so called ‘moderates’ were so concerned about the ills of those muslims they say are ‘distorting’ islam - they would be doing something about it. Instead they worry more about what we think, what their image is, and put more energy into that instead of fixing islam. Or is it that islam is just fine in their minds and they are not about to change it but to change us in how we look at it and make sure we accept it before we realize that we accepted the wolf into our pastures?!

 

[inJESUS]

hhmmm, seems funny that you tell us that the koran has irrelevant verses while muslims don’t consider them irrelevent.

mohammed was ok with women being passed around as booty and enslaved which included rape and he was very direct in his telling his muslim males that they should never withdraw and waste their semen and they should indeed impregnant those slaves.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Says whom? In the USA a person can choose who he leaves his inheritance to–and can leave women without ANYthing! So what other religion actually dictates it? I’m not aware of any which does so.

both (yours & ours) cases only apply in case the person dies without a will.

Ah but I was never financially dependent on you, as I have been working since my youth and can move about in society as I please. I have experience and a college degree so I can work to support myself, or just find another husband better than you.

I thought you were islamic…letting me be the bread winner while you take care of the children full time. ooohh…that must have been my other wife Jeehan. i have so many wives I get confused sometimes.

what kind of a muslim are you, just one koranic wife whacking and you scream divorce. you western bred women are too headstrong.

anyway i wish you luck finding a good job in our male-oriented muslim community. finally, i get a free slot. now I can marry Sanaa.

 

[Sister_Amy]

both (yours & ours) cases only apply in case the person dies without a will.

I thought you were islamic…letting me be the bread winner while you take care of the children full time. ooohh…that must have been my other wife. i have so many wives I get confused sometimes.

what kind of a muslim are you, just one koranic wife whacking and you scream divorce.

anyway i wish you luck finding a good job in our male-oriented muslim community. finally, i get a free slot. now I can marry Sanaa.

I think you know better.
Don’t prove me wrong.

 

[AgnosTheist]

I think you know better.

We men always know better for Allah had made us the maintainers of women. not the other way around.

Salaam!

 

[thedavidwilson]

For every 2 men that convert to islam 8 women do…

Is this why a man can have 4 wives in islam?

 

[Sister_Amy]

We men always know better for Allah had made us the maintainers of women. not the other way around.

Salaam!

That’s right. You better “maintain” your wife and make sure she is living in a good comfy house with a nice car. That’s what maintaining means–taking care of financially. That’s your job as a man.

But I get it… that’s just too much work for you so you say oh, the poor women are “oppressed,” because they don’t have to work while the men are forced to slave away… lol

 

[R_not]

No. I have already refuted this egregious claim, in fact.

What happens when a Christian man beats his wife? What does the church say? Or what does Jesus say?

I guess one would have to ask for their definition of pediphilia. We look at it as a man over the age of 18 having sex with someone younger than 18. It gets blurred when they are closer in age - but when an old man in his 50s takes a girl of 9 - that is pediphilia.

Our Judeo-Christian society has made laws to prohibit such things and as we see when we catch them, we give them a trial and mete out punishment if necessary. In islam - it is ok so there is no crime.

All I can say is that Jesus stopped a stoning and mohammed was ok with them - or else the chapter called ‘women’ wouldn’t have it in there. You can all read it for yourselves.

islam is ok with clitorectomies - even if the instruments used are not sterile, even though there is no reason for them except that the muslim males wants to control every aspect of their women, even though there are women ulalating around the girl screaming out in pain because there is no pain killers that they even consider to give to her.

islam is ok with beating women - just don’t have the bruises show. and gee, with all the tents and scarves they wear - there is a lot of areas for them to beat the women. islam is ok with rape - all a muslim male has to say is that he didn’t do it and if the muslim female doesn’t have 4 witnesses - she is either stoned or hanged, or killed in other ways. In fact, the muslim female doesn’t even have to be raped - all that has to happen is that the muslim male feel that she has brought dishonor and she can be up for an ‘honor killing’. and nothing is done in muslim lands because it is the male’s rights to do such things.

For any muslim woman in our lands to even hint that islam honors women - it is absurd.

 

[AgnosTheist]

That’s right. You better “maintain” your wife and make sure she is living in a good comfy house with a nice car. That’s what maintaining means–taking care of financially. That’s your job as a man.

What are you talking about? I am doing my job! Isnt the house I had put you on comfy enough? And then you repay me by not listening to me, now you want to divorce me. I merely whacked you because sleeping apart would not change your mind. I am merely following the will of Allah. So go, I dont care. I will give your house to soon-to-be-wife Sanaa. She always admired it. She’s not like you west bred headstrong women! And she always return my islamic greeting! not like you! Go, divorce me already. See if I care. hmp! I’ll go spend quality time with my other beautiful wife Jeehan.

 

[R_not]

That’s right. You better “maintain” your wife and make sure she is living in a good comfy house with a nice car. That’s what maintaining means–taking care of financially. That’s your job as a man.

But I get it… that’s just too much work for you so you say oh, the poor women are “oppressed,” because they don’t have to work while the men are forced to slave away… lol

And if a woman prefers to work like I do? they have to get permission by their muslim male. Even if they have dozens of kids (since that is the muslim female’s duty - to be a sack for bearing children) and their muslim male is worthless - they cannot work. In the polygamy families they have to share everything with other wives and other children which can number in the dozens.

and in many muslim countries the girls are prohibited from going to school which is ironic because many cannot go to male doctors.

As for slaving away - I guess you don’t have to do that because islam sanctions slavery and all you have to do is get a slave to do what you don’t want to do.

An article on the persistence of slavery in islam:
jihadwatch.org/archives/017455.php

slavery in islam:
answering-islam.org/Silas/slavery.htm

Anyway, I digress again.

In saudi arabia (where the slave trade is alive and well) women can’t even drive. In other countries women are given varying degrees of latitude, but it all is very shakey because all that has to happen is a whack job who wants more fundamental values to be practices just start terrorizing the locals and viola! women are more restrained.

In islam all a male has to do is say ‘I divorce you’ a few times and they can drop that woman like a hot potato, no matter how many kids she has and he doesn’t have to give her a thing. In fact, he can just take the kids away from her and ban her from ever seeing them again. It is not good for the kids nor for the women.