honor of women in islam

[AgnosTheist]

And if a woman prefers to work like I do?

Sister Amy is studying Engineering. How could a woman work as an engineer in a male-oriented muslim community? Would sharia law allow men & women working together? Her best bet would be to sell fish in some corner.

 

[MugenOne]

She can’t even do that if she decided to move to Big Mo’s homeland.

Sister Amy is studying Engineering. How could a woman work as an engineer in a male-oriented muslim community? Would sharia law allow men & women working together? Her best bet would be to sell fish in some corner.

 

[Booklover]

Says whom? In the USA a person can choose who he leaves his inheritance to–and can leave women without ANYthing! So what other religion actually dictates it? I’m not aware of any which does so.

Ah but I was never financially dependent on you, as I have been working since my youth and can move about in society as I please. I have experience and a college degree so I can work to support myself, or just find another husband better than you.

Before you get too excited about marrying a Muslim man, you’d better read this article by an American woman married to a Muslim. He now controls her whole life. Is this the sort of thing you call honoring a woman?


Vickie

 

[R_not]

Sister Amy is studying Engineering. How could a woman work as an engineer in a male-oriented muslim community? Would sharia law allow men & women working together? Her best bet would be to sell fish in some corner.

This was discussed a couple of months back on why do muslim women and left wing liberal women in the West not try to do something about, or bring attention to, the plight of muslim women in muslim countries? Or tell us all what islam really has in store for women so as to warn us all!?

Instead it has only come from moderates, and the right, this warning to women. and when many brought it to people’s attention - the left and muslim women behaved poorly and either shouted down, threw things, etc to the speakers bringing this information to light.

this is an article on how women suffer in islam and the moral bankruptcy of our own left concerning this and their lack of doing anything to either bring this to light, to warn women to NOT marry muslim men or become a muslim, etc.
frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=4EB8212C-0E9E-4EE4-BD56-55D1E9FCFC56

or the silence of the left on women’s abuses in islam
frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=524699AF-5413-40C8-9E8F-5FC3C6C72B8E

I mean the stories abound. All one has to do is do their own web searches. you can find pics of women being hanged, stoned and details on how to do it! (they bind them in cloth and bury them either up to their waist or to their necks - and then they select stones that are not too big because they don’t want to kill them right off, but not too small either because they want to inflict pain and do some damage!) the whole thing is sick! and to even suggest that islam honors women is one big, fat lie.

Once again, we need to find out what their definition of ‘honor’ is. We find that ‘peace’ doesn’t mean the same thing as we think it means - the West and islam have different meanings. (islam says peace is only death, conversion to islam or subjugation of non-muslim). I was told that mohammed, over 50 years old, having sex with Aisha, a 9 year old, is not pediphilia. I still haven’t gotten the definition of pediphilia from a muslim yet. Or ‘peace treaties’ are different for us and muslims too - hudna which can not last longer than 10 years and can be broken at any time by a muslim when they are rearmed and/or regrouped.

And we all have heard of ‘honor killings’. Basically the maiming, torture and/or killing of a woman/girl if they have crossed whatever is in the muslim male’s mind. and they get away with it by just calling it an ‘honor killing’. So, what is so honorable about that?! I would say our definition of honor and a muslim’s definition are worlds apart.

 

[Booklover]

This was discussed a couple of months back on why do muslim women and left wing liberal women in the West not try to do something about, or bring attention to, the plight of muslim women in muslim countries? Or tell us all what islam really has in store for women so as to warn us all!?

Instead it has only come from moderates, and the right, this warning to women. and when many brought it to people’s attention - the left and muslim women behaved poorly and either shouted down, threw things, etc to the speakers bringing this information to light.

this is an article on how women suffer in islam and the moral bankruptcy of our own left concerning this and their lack of doing anything to either bring this to light, to warn women to NOT marry muslim men or become a muslim, etc.
frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=4EB8212C-0E9E-4EE4-BD56-55D1E9FCFC56

or the silence of the left on women’s abuses in islam
frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=524699AF-5413-40C8-9E8F-5FC3C6C72B8E

I mean the stories abound. All one has to do is do their own web searches. you can find pics of women being hanged, stoned and details on how to do it! (they bind them in cloth and bury them either up to their waist or to their necks - and then they select stones that are not too big because they don’t want to kill them right off, but not too small either because they want to inflict pain and do some damage!) the whole thing is sick! and to even suggest that islam honors women is one big, fat lie.

Once again, we need to find out what their definition of ‘honor’ is. We find that ‘peace’ doesn’t mean the same thing as we think it means - the West and islam have different meanings. (islam says peace is only death, conversion to islam or subjugation of non-muslim). I was told that mohammed, over 50 years old, having sex with Aisha, a 9 year old, is not pediphilia. I still haven’t gotten the definition of pediphilia from a muslim yet. Or ‘peace treaties’ are different for us and muslims too - hudna which can not last longer than 10 years and can be broken at any time by a muslim when they are rearmed and/or regrouped.

And we all have heard of ‘honor killings’. Basically the maiming, torture and/or killing of a woman/girl if they have crossed whatever is in the muslim male’s mind. and they get away with it by just calling it an ‘honor killing’. So, what is so honorable about that?! I would say our definition of honor and a muslim’s definition are worlds apart.

http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/hang4a-11.jpg

 

[R_not]

Yeah booklover, I saw those and there is a video out there of a women getting stoned. I hope that people are gathering that islam is NOT a comfort to women, it does NOT honor women, and for that matter it doesn’t honor men as well. There is nothing in it to lift up the soul to God but instead harps on the carnal pleasures, the animal behaviors and such of men and women.

There is a video of a palestinian woman out there that shows her helping to kill her own child who was THOUGHT to have been a spy to the Israelis. The trial? Was a mob scene. The police that came in to stop it and bring order. None. The riots of muslims worldwide over this ‘distortion’ of islam. None. Not a peep. In fact, the only outrage is that we call attention to such atrocious behaviors and the muslims will try to censor this information from getting out - not because they find it deplorable, but because we take it and use it to back up what we say about islam not being peaceful, but instead a violent ideology. Basically their image is being shown and they don’t like that.

 

[Booklover]

Yeah booklover, I saw those and there is a video out there of a women getting stoned. I hope that people are gathering that islam is NOT a comfort to women, it does NOT honor women, and for that matter it doesn’t honor men as well. There is nothing in it to lift up the soul to God but instead harps on the carnal pleasures, the animal behaviors and such of men and women.

There is a video of a palestinian woman out there that shows her helping to kill her own child who was THOUGHT to have been a spy to the Israelis. The trial? Was a mob scene. The police that came in to stop it and bring order. None. The riots of muslims worldwide over this ‘distortion’ of islam. None. Not a peep. In fact, the only outrage is that we call attention to such atrocious behaviors and the muslims will try to censor this information from getting out - not because they find it deplorable, but because we take it and use it to back up what we say about islam not being peaceful, but instead a violent ideology. Basically their image is being shown and they don’t like that.

But the irony is that people like you and me, who try to warn people of the threat of Islam, are told that we’re paranoid, bigots or hatemongers!

Vickie

 

[ralphinal]

But the irony is that people like you and me, who try to warn people of the threat of Islam, are told that we’re paranoid, bigots or hatemongers!

Vickie

Two separate issues…you may be paranoid, bigots, or hatemongers. It does not mean that you are wrong

 

[Angelos]

No, that suggests that women aren’t ALLOWED to work. But they are allowed to work!! And the money they earn is their own–discretionary, just like the inheritance they earn!! Which means they can spend it on whatever they want. So while the man has to provide for the family, food, shelter, clothes, etc.the woman can use it on anything else she wants. Women have the option of being financially independent, wealthy, having authority. Nothing in Islam can stop them from that–it’s just their responsibility to make sure the children are taken care of. So women can work, they just DON’T HAVE TO!

They DO NOT HAVE TO because their husbands do not ALLOW them to work by simply reminding them of the Islamic commandments making only MEN responsible for care and provision.

Sexual sadism? You’ve got issues, man. It isn’t “punishment” for a husband to leave his wife’s bed. That’s not the point. A wife is not a child, to be punished. He leaves her bed as a precursor to divorce, to demonstrate to her the severity of her behavior.

Yet that very verse in your beloved Koran asks a man to beat his wife in order to show her the severity of her behavior! Isn’t this a means of punishment too? Your Mohammad considered all Muslim women as children who were to be reprimanded, abandoned, and beaten by their husbands whenever they attempted to do something naughty. I know many parents who choose to abandon their children in a dark room while punishing them. You will never be able to understand that a man’s abandoning his wife in bed is a means of punishment (and sexual sadism) unless you look at this issue from the wife’s perspective.

In 1400 years, you think the wealthiest woman was a merchant in the desert? She didn’t “dominate” Muhammad, either.

I wonder when you will desist putting into my mouth things I have never stated or even assumed. You should read my post again and again to see that Khadijah was the most outstanding and wealthiest Muslim woman before Mohammad obstructed the way to a woman’s financial hegemony through verses regulating inheritance.

Don’t you people read my posts? You’ve totally got this wrong–it is TWO MEN who must be present to witness the signing of a contract (not “in the procedure of giving testimony,” as you said). And if not TWO MEN, then ONE MAN, and TWO WOMEN. They are to witness the contract. If a dispute about it comes up, and the only remaining witness is ONE WOMAN, then HER TESTIMONY IS MOST AUTHORITATIVE in the matter. Plus, regarding other issues–not commercial/financial contracts–a woman’s testimony is taken in PREFERENCE to a man’s. Especially regarding women’s issues. Women can be JUDGES. One woman’s testimony is valid, she can be a judge, she can narrate hadith, be a scholar–trust me, it’s NOT inferiority.

You are making up statements that contradict the certain verse in the Koran:

Surah 2:282 And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if **two men **be not (at hand) then a man and two women, of such as ye approve as witnesses, so that **if the one erreth (through forgetfulness) the other will remember. **And the witnesses must not refuse when they are summoned.

Mohammad’s Allah does not primarily need female witnesses! He only condescends to call women IF TWO MEN cannot be present. However, it stipulates that TWO WOMEN be accompanied by A MAN!!! The Koran apparently does not trust women when it says that TWO WOMEN will be present in addition to ONE MAN to represent the SECOND MAN. To put it into mathematics:

1) Call TWO men (no need for even one single woman!)
2) If you fail to find TWO men (which means that only ONE of them will be present)
3) Call that ONE man AND TWO women. Those TWO women will substitute for the OTHER MISSING MAN.

TWO WOMEN MAKE ONE MAN: 2=1

Where is equality?

 

[inJESUS]

If i want to sum up this argument, i’d say i have no problem if women accept whatever Islam teaches them, out of religious duty, our of weakness, out of lack of self-esteem or out of full conviction , but i have a problem saying Islam raises the status of women * compared to other religions/cultures *because it is simply not the case neither in teachings nor in practice.

 

[R_not]

If i want to sum up this argument, i’d say i have no problem if women accept whatever Islam teaches them, out of religious duty, our of weakness, out of lack of self-esteem or out of full conviction , but i have a problem saying Islam raises the status of women * compared to other religions/cultures *because it is simply not the case neither in teachings nor in practice.

Yeah, take note that even sister amy admitted that it takes 2 men to witness to the signing of a document - but it takes 1 man and TWO WOMEN if there is only one man available. The koran has put women as 1/2 that of a man. It also applies when they are defending themselves, or anything else. I don’t know how that is elevation unless that means they are not at the same level of the infidel.

 

[inJESUS]

R-Not, to me, beating women is enough to convince me that these can never be the words of God but of a human, and surely a male. But if Muslim women believe God can really say this, they can suits themselves, but they cannot tell me that Muhammad/Allah raises the status of women. As simple as this…

As to the points of women witnesses, notice how Jesus appears first to WOMEN as witnesses

 

[Booklover]

Yeah, take note that even sister amy admitted that it takes 2 men to witness to the signing of a document - but it takes 1 man and TWO WOMEN if there is only one man available. The koran has put women as 1/2 that of a man. It also applies when they are defending themselves, or anything else. I don’t know how that is elevation unless that means they are not at the same level of the infidel.

And doesn’t it take 4 witnesses to prove “rape”??

Vickie

 

[MugenOne]

MUHAMMAD’S ADVICE FOR MARRIAGE
Narrated Jabir bin ‘Abdullah: When I got married, Allah’s Apostle said to me, “What type of lady have you married?” I replied, "I have married a matron’ He said, “Why, don’t you have a liking for the virgins and for fondling them?” Jabir also said: Allah’s Apostle said, "Why didn’t you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?’ (Sahih al-Bukhari: volume 7, book 62, number 17, Khan)

What kind of religion is this?

 

[MugenOne]

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, “Isn’t the witness of a women equal to half that of a man?” The women said “yes”. He said “This is because of the deficiency of the women’s mind.” (Sahih al-Bukhari: volume 3, book 48, number 826, Khan)

Yeah, take note that even sister amy admitted that it takes 2 men to witness to the signing of a document - but it takes 1 man and TWO WOMEN if there is only one man available. The koran has put women as 1/2 that of a man. It also applies when they are defending themselves, or anything else. I don’t know how that is elevation unless that means they are not at the same level of the infidel.

 

[inJESUS]

MugenOne, did you expect a man who took a dozen wife and God knows how many sexual slaves to believe that marriage is actually a sacrament??

 

[R_not]

And doesn’t it take 4 witnesses to prove “rape”??

Vickie

Yeah.

the story that started that is sort of mind twisting too. I don’t see how it was twisted into a woman having to have 4 witnesses if she gets raped.

Aisha was accused of being - well, indiscreet. mohammed didn’t want to believe it and he got some ‘revelation’ from the moon that in the future it would require 4 men to witness it and prove that the woman gets raped. Now, in my mind if 4 pious men are just sitting there watching a woman getting raped - they are disgusting excuses for human beings because they should be helping that woman! And unless a man brings along his gang most won’t have a bunch of witnesses around to testify against him. The whole thing is made up from a mad man in lust with a teenager - by that time Aisha was probably in her early to mid teens when she had her indiscretion.

The whole thing is just too disgusting to even think about too long.

 

[AgnosTheist]

I don’t see how it was twisted into a woman having to have 4 witnesses if she gets raped.

that is also a mystery to me. what gave muslims this idea?

 

[inJESUS]

Wait wait …if a woman is raped, she needs to provide 4 witnesses?? isn’t this kind of impossible? any source for this?

 

[R_not]

MUHAMMAD’S ADVICE FOR MARRIAGE
Narrated Jabir bin ‘Abdullah: When I got married, Allah’s Apostle said to me, “What type of lady have you married?” I replied, "I have married a matron’ He said, “Why, don’t you have a liking for the virgins and for fondling them?” Jabir also said: Allah’s Apostle said, "Why didn’t you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?’ (Sahih al-Bukhari: volume 7, book 62, number 17, Khan)

What kind of religion is this?

Ok, I cannot resist. It is a ‘religion’ for pediphiles, megalomaniacs, psychopaths and sociopaths.

I don’t know how ‘moderates’ can follow such a guy - but this goes into the definitions again. What is their definition of ‘moderate’? It doesn’t agree on many levels and this goes back to a different thread - lying and the koran.