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Sister_Amy
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lol, I’ll explain what I want.
I have limited time and resources I can’t talk about everything you want… besides, I am vastly outnumbered!!but anyway, I don’t know what a “mullah” is. I keep asking people and nobody’s been able to give me a real answer. So if you know, do tell.
An ‘imam’ is a leader, and anybody can be an imam–someone who leads the prayer is an imam. Which means I have been an imam!
That doesn’t make me an expert on Islam. And as far as I know there aren’t any qualifications. So just saying “imam” doesn’t imply at all that a person knows “everything about Islam” as you said.
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Sister_Amy
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never heard of that one.
what is a hareem? never heard of this either… sounds kinda funny
Yeah I have no clue what you’re talking about now. Sorry.
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Sister_Amy
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I don’t subscribe to the idea that “different” means “inferior.” Some people might think that men are treated “inferior” in Islam because on matters of menstruation, pregnancy, birth, , breast-feeding, child-rearing, etc., a man automatically has less authority than a woman. Some people might think men get the short stick because they HAVE to support their families–can’t stay home and be lazy, but part of the religion says they are required to work to support their family. Women don’t have to do that, can’t be required to work.all this time and you are still clueless? oh my goodness.
Meh. Think about the “procedure.” First discussing with his wife, then leaving her bed. He isn’t allowed to beat her out of anger, on a whim, without first going through the procedure, on her face, or hard enough to leave a mark.
This is not inferior to women, because the men are required to take care of the women. So if a man leaves a son and daughters, the son becomes the caretaker for his sisters–so he gets more money than they get, but the money they get is “discretionary”–they can do whatever they want with it. The money he gets has to be used to support them. This is why there is a history of many wealthy Muslim women!
Female commercial contracts? Huh?
I don’t think this is a bad thing. Yay polygamy!!!
Tough sell to tell me that this makes women inferior.Here’s your problem–Islamic countries get to apply all sorts of BS to the law that isn’t Islam, so just because some country does it doesn’t make it part of Islam. You know women weren’t allowed to vote in some countries until the last couple of decades. Not even until the last century in the United States while in Muslim lands women were judges!!
Only in Saudi Arabia, and they’re trying to change it. It’s some cultural nonsense, nothing to do with Islam.
The Prophet Muhammad said that one day a woman would be able to go on hajj (alone) fearing no one but Allah. Some cultures go to extremes in trying to “protect” their women but it’s not necessarily anything to do with Islam.
Frankly, whoever prevents women from an education is violating a clear commandment form Muhammad. EVERY SINGLE MUSLIM is supposed to have an education. Male and Female. No ifs, ands, or buts.
men forced to grow beards. lol.
When will you open your eyes and see things for how they are, and not for how you want them to be? Not for what is convenient for your argument?
Men and women are DIFFERENT.
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brockmac
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Does the mutilation of a young girls genitals honor her?
Does prescribing the rules for allowing a man to beat his wife honor her?
Does allowing a man to marry a second, third, forth, etc. wife honor the first wife?
Does killing a woman who has been raped honor her?
Does requiring women to cover themselves from head to toe because men refuse to control their desires honor them?
Does refusing to allow school girls out of a burning building because they are not properly covered honor them?
Does suggestion that Paradise amounts to an orgy where the man can be with multiple women for ever honor women or objectify them?
I am not an expert on the Koran but I do follow the news and know that all of the above have happenned and in the eyes of the men who did them, they were doing so in accordance with Islamic law. This makes it difficult to accept that in practice, Islam treats women as equals to men, much less honors them.
Now I will be the first to admit that when women go out wearing lowcut blouses and short skirts, looking like a tramp, they do not honor themselves. But even if they dress like a tramp, if they are raped, western law holds the man responsible for his actions. This I believe, honors the woman by making the man responsible for his own actions. As noted above, some Muslims believe that Islamic law requires that the woman (victim) be killed for the sake of the family’s honor.
I don’t bring these up to suggest that all Muslims commit these acts, but only that a significant portion of them do, and find the justification for these things in the Koran and Sharia law.
Does prescribing the rules for allowing a man to beat his wife honor her?
Does allowing a man to marry a second, third, forth, etc. wife honor the first wife?
Does killing a woman who has been raped honor her?
Does requiring women to cover themselves from head to toe because men refuse to control their desires honor them?
Does refusing to allow school girls out of a burning building because they are not properly covered honor them?
Does suggestion that Paradise amounts to an orgy where the man can be with multiple women for ever honor women or objectify them?
I am not an expert on the Koran but I do follow the news and know that all of the above have happenned and in the eyes of the men who did them, they were doing so in accordance with Islamic law. This makes it difficult to accept that in practice, Islam treats women as equals to men, much less honors them.
Now I will be the first to admit that when women go out wearing lowcut blouses and short skirts, looking like a tramp, they do not honor themselves. But even if they dress like a tramp, if they are raped, western law holds the man responsible for his actions. This I believe, honors the woman by making the man responsible for his own actions. As noted above, some Muslims believe that Islamic law requires that the woman (victim) be killed for the sake of the family’s honor.
I don’t bring these up to suggest that all Muslims commit these acts, but only that a significant portion of them do, and find the justification for these things in the Koran and Sharia law.
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morning_star777
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actually sister amy in my country bangladesh who has lots of knowledge about islam here muslims called him as mullah.they r also religious muslims.from them who is prayer leader or leader of religious society muslims called them imam.they know almost everything about islam.(atleast they have lots of knowledge about islam).hope you guess now wat i mean with this 2 words.
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Angelos
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You must be kidding!
It is ironically Muslim men and scholars who always tend to construe all the differences between men and women as indicators of female inferiority. I know several Imams preaching on Fridays and brainwashing youngsters that a woman’s physical strength is different from that of a man’s, which is used by him while supporting his theory of female inferiority and male superiority.
In Islam women cannot be required to work because that would give them financial independence and more authority in society!
Yes, Mohammad endorsed sexual sadism as a slightly better means of punishing and subordinating women. However, if a man were not allowed to have many wives to sleep with, Muslim men would never resort to sexual sadism as a means of subordinating women because by abandoning their wives in their beds they would also punish themselves.
The wealthiest Muslim woman of Islamic history was Khadijaah, whose money enabled her to dominate over Mohammad! Sadly, Mohammad strove to efface that bad mark in his life by marrying many women and a rather young girl right after Khadijaah’s death! He also made efforts to save Muslim men from future Khadijaah’s by letting males inherit more than females and confining women to homes. Very crafty indeed…This is not inferior to women, because the men are required to take care of the women. So if a man leaves a son and daughters, the son becomes the caretaker for his sisters–so he gets more money than they get, but the money they get is “discretionary”–they can do whatever they want with it. The money he gets has to be used to support them. This is why there is a history of many wealthy Muslim women!
The verse in the Koran necessitating the presence of TWO women in contrast to the presence of ONE man in the procedure of giving testimony indicates Mohammad’s faulty assertion that two women are equal to one man. This is not a matter of difference, but of inferiority!
Even Mohammad’s wives suffered a lot from polygamy. This is why Allah (supposedly) had to intervene through verses and warn them not to plot against Mohammad due to their jealousy.I don’t think this is a bad thing. Yay polygamy!!!
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inJESUS
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inJESUS
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Sam_777
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I salute you for these words, but whom would understand what you are saying.
Only those in the Kingdom of God…
Only the heavenly people…
Only those whom adore real love to his/her partner…
Else leave Muslims with their number one reason for marriage, that earthy instinct.
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inJESUS
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mashkur ya akhi
indeed, marriage in Islam and Christianity is so different and this is what makes marriage and divorce and different kinds of marriages not found in Christianity where marriage is striving for sainthood not a sexual institution.Jesus is from above, Muhammad from below,
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Sam_777
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:tsktsk:
Sheikha Amy please read the following verses from Quran & Hadith:
- “The religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will): nor did the people of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account.” (Quran 03:19).
- "Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.’” (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57).
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Sister_Amy
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Has nothing to do with Islam.
Islam actually prescribes rules preventing a man from beating his wife, if you had been paying attention…
It might! How do you know?
No–this isn’t allowed in Islam, either!
That’s not why women cover. They cover to save their beauty for their husbands and family, instead of just showing it to every guy on the street. And yes, that honors them!
Trust me, you won’t find Muslim scholars at any level who condoned that–life is more important in Islam.
Not familiar with that suggestion. Never heard Paradise described as an “orgy” so I think it’s you dishonoring women and Islam by even suggesting that, because it’s certainly not Islamic teaching.
We can tell.
And the news = Qur’an? Nope!
That doesn’t make them valid in islam.
who were clearly in error
But how would you know that? Are you an expert in islamic law? Didn’t think so. They were NOT in accordance with Islamic law, but violations thereof. This is kind of like if I said that Catholic priests are allowed to molest little children–exactly the same. It’s CLEARLY wrong, clearly against the religion, and the people should be punished. It’s not a teaching of the religion.
Is that an excuse to make fun of Muslim women? I in fact feel honored and treated better by Muslim men than I ever have by non-Muslims, even in my own family.
Whatever Muslim believes that is wrong. Honor killings have NO PLACE in Islam, none whatsoever. If a woman is raped, then her attacker needs to be punished. She is NOT to be punished for his crime.
But you aren’t an expert on the Qur’an, or Shariah law, right? So take it from someone who has studied these things–there is no justification in the Qur’an or Shari’ah law for that evil.
Most of what you’ve brought up isn’t even allowed in Islam, so please be careful what you associate with the religion. Hearing it on the news doesn’t make it islamic doctrine.
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Sister_Amy
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Here in the USA we have this opinion about people coming from “back home” and their “backwards” ways of practicing Islam. It’s kind of mean, actually, but generally assumed that people coming from gulf countries and the subcontinent really have some wrong ideas about Islam, and mix it with culture.
No offense, but not by any standards is Bangladesh a seat of Islamic knowledge. If they think they know everything about Islam, that should be your first clue that they know nothing.
ps–“mullah” is a Persian word.
These people can go to a sheikh and learn a little bit of Qur’an, learn a little bit of fiqh, and compared to everyone else they might seem really knowledgeable, but compared to their teachers they are very lowly students.
When people immigrate here (to the USA) some of their mentalities especially about women become more obvious. People in the subcontinent have different views of women, many don’t think women should come to the mosque or even leave their homes–trust me, it’s NOT an Islamic teaching at all, just culture. And if that’s all you’re seeing, I’m not surprised if you’re confused.
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morning_star777
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sister amy,i also agree with you that maybe they don’t know anything so pls come to bangladesh and teach them.but don’t forget 150million ppl live here and up to 130 millions are muslims.
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morning_star777
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oh sister amy i forgot 1 thing to say.maybe nobody don’t know about islam except you.so come and teach the islamic religious leaders about islam.
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Sister_Amy
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I don’t think so. For the most part, in all my discussions with Muslim men and scholars, they simply point out that men and women are different. Women have strengths that men don’t have–their ability to be compassionate and forgiving, their patience with children, and they are less likely to get angry. It is not an issue of inferiority vs. superiority. Men and women are different, and they excel at different tasks. That’s just a fact.
Don’t you think that a woman’s physical strength is different from a man’s? Aren’t men generally larger and stronger than women? Of course they are. But women excel in other ways–if the imams don’t mention that on Fridays, perhaps more women need to come and speak up.
No, that suggests that women aren’t ALLOWED to work. But they are allowed to work!! And the money they earn is their own–discretionary, just like the inheritance they earn!! Which means they can spend it on whatever they want. So while the man has to provide for the family, food, shelter, clothes, etc.the woman can use it on anything else she wants. Women have the option of being financially independent, wealthy, having authority. Nothing in Islam can stop them from that–it’s just their responsibility to make sure the children are taken care of. So women can work, they just DON’T HAVE TO!
Sexual sadism? You’ve got issues, man. It isn’t “punishment” for a husband to leave his wife’s bed. That’s not the point. A wife is not a child, to be punished. He leaves her bed as a precursor to divorce, to demonstrate to her the severity of her behavior.
In 1400 years, you think the wealthiest woman was a merchant in the desert?
She didn’t “dominate” Muhammad, either.Don’t you people read my posts? You’ve totally got this wrong–it is TWO MEN who must be present to witness the signing of a contract (not “in the procedure of giving testimony,” as you said). And if not TWO MEN, then ONE MAN, and TWO WOMEN. They are to witness the contract. If a dispute about it comes up, and the only remaining witness is ONE WOMAN, then HER TESTIMONY IS MOST AUTHORITATIVE in the matter. Plus, regarding other issues–not commercial/financial contracts–a woman’s testimony is taken in PREFERENCE to a man’s. Especially regarding women’s issues. Women can be JUDGES. One woman’s testimony is valid, she can be a judge, she can narrate hadith, be a scholar–trust me, it’s NOT inferiority.
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Sister_Amy
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Sister_Amy
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I’m familiar with both, but explain how on earth that is related to this thread?
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AgnosTheist
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i think you are confusing social roles with social rights again.
the problem is, that only works in theory and not in reality. in reality making women financially dependent also makes them vulnerable to abuse.
again, works in theory and not in reality. thats why its infinitely better to FULLY abolish domestic violence. NO EXCUSES. NO EXCEMPTIONS.
thoery, not reality. google “sisters in islam” and listen why they disagree with you.
whats being discussed the last couple of pages. women are dumbed down.
does this mean its an easy sell for your muslim husband to convince you that he should take additional wives?I don’t think this is a bad thing. Yay polygamy!!!
Doesnt it make you wonder why such state sponsored lunacies exists mainly in ‘some’ muslim countries? And hardly anywhere else? because those lunacies are compatible with islam’s poor opinion of women.
at least beards are natural. its a lot easier than wearing the burqa.
that does not justify sex discrimination.
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