honor of women in islam

[R_not]

yes brother inJESUS you are correct.when i was a muslim and in childhood i was a religious muslim.but i didn’t wanted to be fanatic so my father often called me as kafir;yehudi(jew)&nazarah(christian).now thanks lord jesus i really became christian.i am gratefull to holy lord jesus that she showed me the true way at last.

Well, one thing I can say is that we are richer for having you here!

 

[Booklover]

.

This point means that there can be two conflicting opinions on an issue which can be simultaneously correct–or at the very least, simultaneously acceptable. They are based on a different procedure of logical reasoning, but they both have proof, so they are both correct. And that’s why there can be different opinions which are both valid.

Here’s the logic or "illogic’ of Islam in a nutshell!

Vickie

 

[R_not]

This saying of mohammed’s: The most perfect believers are the best in conduct and best of you are those who are best to their wives. - Prophet Muhammad (saaws)

did he say that when he was in Mecca or medina?

And this he said which is more relevent to the violence we know happens worldwide and now face by its adherents here in their denials that islam is violence: “war is deception”, by mohammed

 

[inJESUS]

editing or not, God knows what a human might learn from such peaceful behaviors…it’s very easy to incite hatred and easier to find it in the sunna of Muhammad and his followers…it took one day watching Hizbullah channel to learn what sick ideologies of hatred and intolerance can do to a human’s brain and how they dominate his behaviors and attitude.

 

[Lapell]

Good question. I can’t give you a number of “how many people” can interpret the Qur’an, (I don’t know it, nor could count them), but what I can tell you is that only scholars are allowed to do so. And not just “any” scholar, either. It has to be a scholar who has mastered the sciences of the Qur’an, is fluent in Arabic and logic and other things, and then he has to basically get the approval of his teacher. And his teacher had to get approval… and so on. Back to the Companions of Muhammad. And even then, not just any interpretation is acceptable, but it has to agree with other contextual sources. A good example that comes to my mind (unfortunately) is the so-called “wife-beating” verse. Laypeople, especially non-Muslims but some Muslims too, might say that this verse allows or commands a husband to be physically violent with his wife–but that’s actually not the interpretation of scholars!! Oddly enough, though it’s the only interpretation seized upon by those who wish to attack Islam, and even though it’s what the text “seems” to say, it’s actually not what it means. And actual scholars will look at that verse in the context of the hadith and so forth. Because Muhammad’s Companions actually asked him “what does this mean?” So… it’s not like we’re flying blind.

This is in fact quite similar to the Catholic tradition, who reserved the responsibility of actually interpreting the Bible to priests and so forth who were familiar with it and also the related traditions and writings which existed. Not just any random person was allowed to interpret the Bible, right? And what happened when people were allowed to interpret the Bible on their own, you get a bazillion different “protestant” churches each with a different interpretation! So I think you’ll agree it makes much sense that only scholars can “interpret” Qur’an.

I guess these scholars are a bit like the Jewish rabbis, who are supposed to “sit in judgment”, as a Jewish writer puts it through one of his characters who is a rabbi. Matters of fences and things like that, but not only that! And quite concrete in their reasonings.

Now, if only scholars are supposed to “interpret” the law, like you said, and some lay people try to “interpret” it and arrive at conclusions different from the scholars, quite away from the true spirit, so to speak, of Islam, do their leaders reprimand them somehow? Are there cases when this was quite impossible and then, can they do something to correct those laypeople somehow, or do they let them go?

 

[Booklover]

Catholics have hijacked my religion.

We have done nothing of the sort. It’s you that won’t face the truth of what Islam really is! Maybe you’ll wise up when you get to Saudi Arabia and start having all your former freedoms denied to you.

Vickie

 

[ralphinal]

Good question. I can’t give you a number of “how many people” can interpret the Qur’an, (I don’t know it, nor could count them), but what I can tell you is that only scholars are allowed to do so. And not just “any” scholar, either. It has to be a scholar who has mastered the sciences of the Qur’an, is fluent in Arabic and logic and other things, and then he has to basically get the approval of his teacher. And his teacher had to get approval… and so on. Back to the Companions of Muhammad. And even then, not just any interpretation is acceptable, but it has to agree with other contextual sources. A good example that comes to my mind (unfortunately) is the so-called “wife-beating” verse. Laypeople, especially non-Muslims but some Muslims too, might say that this verse allows or commands a husband to be physically violent with his wife–but that’s actually not the interpretation of scholars!! Oddly enough, though it’s the only interpretation seized upon by those who wish to attack Islam, and even though it’s what the text “seems” to say, it’s actually not what it means. And actual scholars will look at that verse in the context of the hadith and so forth. Because Muhammad’s Companions actually asked him “what does this mean?” So… it’s not like we’re flying blind.

This is in fact quite similar to the Catholic tradition, who reserved the responsibility of actually interpreting the Bible to priests and so forth who were familiar with it and also the related traditions and writings which existed. Not just any random person was allowed to interpret the Bible, right? And what happened when people were allowed to interpret the Bible on their own, you get a bazillion different “protestant” churches each with a different interpretation! So I think you’ll agree it makes much sense that only scholars can “interpret” Qur’an.

I can accept that answer. Although, if there is so much control over who is and is not an authority, why are there so many sects or varying opinions on things?

Yes, I did leave you hanging, didn’t I!? Sorry about that, but I wanted you to really think about it… because the answer is much less satisfying without an appreciation for the dilemna. When they asked Muhammad which group was correct… he told them that they BOTH were right! And then he said that if a person strives with his knowledge to come to an answer (ijtihad, it’s called) and arrives at the wrong answer, he gets one reward; and the person who strives (ijtihad) to get to an answer and arrives at the right answer gets two rewards. But he didn’t say which of those groups were wrong–he said they were both right.

This point means that there can be two conflicting opinions on an issue which can be simultaneously correct–or at the very least, simultaneously acceptable. They are based on a different procedure of logical reasoning, but they both have proof, so they are both correct. And that’s why there can be different opinions which are both valid.

So, can Muslims such as yourself be correct that at no times is it acceptable to kill innocents and Muslims who hold that all non-Muslims are at war with Islam and are therefore not innocent be correct as well?

Again, it is the scholars. There was on scholar who, based on a hadith from Muhammad, said it wasn’t allowed to pay money for a product that didn’t exist. The hadith was talking about fruit which hadn’t ripened–because the fruit might not ripen, right? So a person couldn’t buy the fruit before it existed. The scholar said that this applied to everything… which meant that custom clothing and furniture couldn’t be paid for until after it was finished. This gave a problem to the person who had to make it, who would have needed the money to make it! So the scholar decided that it was too difficult. So basically, he sort of reversed his ruling–it still applied to fruit and animals, but not to clothing and furniture. This was part of his procedure, because the idea that Islam is not supposed to be difficult overcame his ruling about the transaction.

It’s not watering it down, though. And a scholar wouldn’t do that. If a person chooses to, for example, pray only 3 times a day instead of 5, he is watering it down, and he is commiting a sin. If a scholar did the same thing, he would be accused of a sin. But generally scholars don’t do that, and for something to be too difficult is a serious thing, and scholars make that decision, based on a variety of factors (a person’s life or livelihood in jeopardy, eg.)

Ok. Some things can be modified and some cannot. That makes sense.

 

[Lapell]

editing or not, God knows what a human might learn from such peaceful behaviors…it’s very easy to incite hatred and easier to find it in the sunna of Muhammad and his followers…it took one day watching Hizbullah channel to learn what sick ideologies of hatred and intolerance can do to a human’s brain and how they dominate his behaviors and attitude.

Are the people in Hizbullah Sunnites? I thought the people in Middle East were mainly Shi’ites…

 

[inJESUS]

This saying of mohammed’s: The most perfect believers are the best in conduct and best of you are those who are best to their wives. - Prophet Muhammad (saaws)

all the same allowing his followers to beat their women for their “best”…yet you are not the best if you do it ! you are not the best if you excute an order from Allah… subhanallah…

 

[morning_star777]

Well, one thing I can say is that we are richer for having you here!

my friends just pray for me.i took lord jesus as my lord after many thinking.i want to be a true christian and true servant of my lord jesus.but i know its very difficult.if lord jesus will want then he will accept me..now my life is sacred on the feet of my lord jesus forever.

 

[inJESUS]

Catholics have hijacked my religion.

Amy, for your religion to be called a religion, it had to call into question the truthfulness of God. This is not only hijacking God’s words, but insulting His truthfulness as well by claiming He is not truthful to His words, something He denies before all heretics arose.

 

[Lapell]

**I am not trying to prove anything. I was referring R_not to da vinci code. In that book (and film) it is shown that Jesus was married to Mary magd. Right or wrong, that was hundreds of years ago.

Recently a burial place has been found. That belonged to Jesus family. There were ten bodies in stone caskets and one of them was marked as the son of Jesus. This is a very recent news.

All that was only for R-not. Not for you please. So forget it.**

Whether only for R_not or for anybody else, both proved to be hoaxes, planten, and thus unreliable!
Even though a novel, Da Vinci Code had the pretention of showing Opus Dei under its true colours, which was of course a big lie…
As for the casket you’re talking about, the markings also proved to have been done way too recently to be considered anything but a hoax!

 

[Sister_Amy]

I guess these scholars are a bit like the Jewish rabbis, who are supposed to “sit in judgment”, as a Jewish writer puts it through one of his characters who is a rabbi. Matters of fences and things like that, but not only that! And quite concrete in their reasonings.

Now, if only scholars are supposed to “interpret” the law, like you said, and some lay people try to “interpret” it and arrive at conclusions different from the scholars, quite away from the true spirit, so to speak, of Islam, do their leaders reprimand them somehow? Are there cases when this was quite impossible and then, can they do something to correct those laypeople somehow, or do they let them go?

Actually I wasn’t talking about interpreting the law, I was talking about interpreting the Qur’an.

Islamic Law (Shari’ah) is not a code, like the constitution, it’s more like a grid, with different circumstances requiring a different conclusion. The law is derived from the Qur’an, among other things.

Judges mete out punishments for people who commit crimes. But scholars don’t sit on podiums and demand people be punished for not understanding something.

 

[R_not]

Are the people in Hizbullah Sunnites? I thought the people in Middle East were mainly Shi’ites…

The middle East is full of both sects. The majority are sunni. hamas is sunni and backed by the wahabbi saudis.

hezbollah are shiites backed by Iran.

they will both come together to kill Jews - but they are split in some things in islam.

They have been working together - somewhat - to kill off the Israelis. I say ‘somewhat’ because they have issues with each other every so often.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Amy, for your religion to be called a religion, it had to call into question the truthfulness of God. This is not only hijacking God’s words, but insulting His truthfulness as well by claiming He is not truthful to His words, something He denies before all heretics arose.

I am very angry today, very upset, very emotional, so my posts might fall short of being rational.

But what you are doing is taking Islamic texts and twisting them to your own interpretation–allowing the death of innocent people! You! You are the one who says it is okay, but that is not Islam.

Killing one innocent person is like killing all of mankind. All of mankind.

And that is in the Qur’an.

 

[Lapell]

Catholics have hijacked my religion.

What do you mean?

 

[ralphinal]

I am very angry today, very upset, very emotional, so my posts might fall short of being rational.

But what you are doing is taking Islamic texts and twisting them to your own interpretation–allowing the death of innocent people! You! You are the one who says it is okay, but that is not Islam.

Killing one innocent person is like killing all of mankind. All of mankind.

And that is in the Qur’an.

Sister Amy,
Please forgive me if I have made you upset or emotional. I may be difficult, but I have no intention of being mean or hurtful

 

[inJESUS]

Are the people in Hizbullah Sunnites? I thought the people in Middle East were mainly Shi’ites…

middle east are mainly Sunni…Shia are mainly in Lebanon, Iraq and Iran ( very few in SA and Katar). Hizbullah are Shia but they are doing their best to apply what Muhammad said : Jews will be annihilated by Muslims and even rocks will point out where Jews are hiding…all these in the name of peace as Muhammad and his peaceful followers understood.

 

[R_not]

I am very angry today, very upset, very emotional, so my posts might fall short of being rational.

But what you are doing is taking Islamic texts and twisting them to your own interpretation–allowing the death of innocent people! You! You are the one who says it is okay, but that is not Islam.

Killing one innocent person is like killing all of mankind. All of mankind.

And that is in the Qur’an.

Oh heck, I forgot to include the muslim’s definition for the word ‘innocent’.

Innocent - only muslims are innocent. No infidel is considered to be innocent.

This is such an old statement - that muslims don’t believe in the killing of innocents - to us infidels that it is quite frankly obvious to even the dull witted how the definition is so vastly different from everyone elses. We saw so many muslims spout this right after 9/11 - that finally we have a lot of people who have looked into this and now know the deception in this word ‘innocent’ when used by muslims.

 

[inJESUS]

So, can Muslims such as yourself be correct that at no times is it acceptable to kill innocents and Muslims who hold that all non-Muslims are at war with Islam and are therefore not innocent be correct as well?