Hostility towards Latin

[bmccpy78]

Yesterday was my parish’s annual picnic. I was having a conversation with my pastor and the topic of Latin in the new mass came up. He said that he would like to use Latin in parts of the mass at our parish but he just is not able to do it. He referenced to an occasion when he used one line of Latin during the mass and a woman stood up and shouted at him. This worries me because we are a relatively orthodox parish with many women who still where lace head coverings and practice devotions before mass. I did not know how to respond to this. This upset me because he mentioned that he would like to restore more traditions (chant, incense, ect.) but it just would not be possible with the attitude of our parishioners. Is this a problem most parishes are faced with? What could our parish overcome these types of problems?

 

[ConstantineTG]

See what everyone else wants. Why let one woman control what the parish does? If more people agree on an expanded use of Latin, I don’t know why the priest would need to bend over backwards just to please one woman.

 

[Redratfish]

Yesterday was my parish’s annual picnic. I was having a conversation with my pastor and the topic of Latin in the new mass came up. He said that he would like to use Latin in parts of the mass at our parish but he just is not able to do it. He referenced to an occasion when he used one line of Latin during the mass and a woman stood up and shouted at him. This worries me because we are a relatively orthodox parish with many women who still where lace head coverings and practice devotions before mass. I did not know how to respond to this. This upset me because he mentioned that he would like to restore more traditions (chant, incense, ect.) but it just would not be possible with the attitude of our parishioners. Is this a problem most parishes are faced with? What could our parish overcome these types of problems?

If the whole congregation majority likes it, I see no problem with it being used. However, as to why people are hostile, remember, you right now are Catholic, and will most likely stay Catholic. Why should someone join a Church or stay in a Church when they do not understand what is being said? For this reason I do not go to a Latin mass. Sure, I might be able to follow along, but I don’t understand, or participate. I feel like I am just observing.

 

[roadsend]

If the whole congregation majority likes it, I see no problem with it being used. However, as to why people are hostile, remember, you right now are Catholic, and will most likely stay Catholic. Why should someone join a Church or stay in a Church when they do not understand what is being said? For this reason I do not go to a Latin mass. Sure, I might be able to follow along, but I don’t understand, or participate. I feel like I am just observing.

This is why most Catholics, who attend Latin Mass use missals.
Fifty years ago once you learned to sing the chants of the Mass you could do them continuously. The music did not change from year to year as it now does.

 

[robert7685]

If the whole congregation majority likes it, I see no problem with it being used. However, as to why people are hostile, remember, you right now are Catholic, and will most likely stay Catholic. Why should someone join a Church or stay in a Church when they do not understand what is being said? For this reason I do not go to a Latin mass. Sure, I might be able to follow along, but I don’t understand, or participate. I feel like I am just observing.

I for one have wanted to attend a Traditional Latin Mass si

ce before my baptism at Easter Vigil earlier this year.

 

[Apollos]

a woman stood up and shouted at him.

You should have said, “Now I know how to get things done around here.”

 

[ProVobis]

Yesterday was my parish’s annual picnic. I was having a conversation with my pastor and the topic of Latin in the new mass came up. He said that he would like to use Latin in parts of the mass at our parish but he just is not able to do it.

Thanks for bringing this issue up. My local parish had enough problems introducing a Spanish Mass. When it was first proposed I remember the storms of protests. Today several years later things have quieted down however and many English speakers attend the Spanish Mass.

Things like contempt for a certain culture and language are, of course, learned. I was ashamed of my Polish heritage for a long time until the Church got a Polish Pope. I also was ashamed that I had “wasted” four years of Latin classes until the re-release of the Latin Mass back in the late 80’s. And a special friend (who wasn’t even Catholic) used to email me a lot of Latin, which got me back into the Latin mindset (for lack of a better word). I imagine there are a lot of people who just need some exposure to some of the prayers who could appreciate the Latin language a little more. Maybe if someone told them certain songs of Enya and Charlotte Church are in Latin, they maybe can get swayed, I don’t know, but it’s worth a try.

 

[robert7685]

If the whole congregation majority likes it, I see no problem with it being used. However, as to why people are hostile, remember, you right now are Catholic, and will most likely stay Catholic. Why should someone join a Church or stay in a Church when they do not understand what is being said? For this reason I do not go to a Latin mass. Sure, I might be able to follow along, but I don’t understand, or participate. I feel like I am just observing.

I, for one, have wanted to experience a Traditional Latin Mass since before I was received into the Church earlier this year. I’ve seen it on EWTN, so I already know of the wonder and beauty that it entails.
Even when I see the Novus Ordo masses that they show, the Latin adds so much to it. To me, it elevates the Mass, making it feel as special and sacred as it is supposed to be.

 

[utah_rose]

If the whole congregation majority likes it, I see no problem with it being used. However, as to why people are hostile, remember, you right now are Catholic, and will most likely stay Catholic. Why should someone join a Church or stay in a Church when they do not understand what is being said? For this reason I do not go to a Latin mass. Sure, I might be able to follow along, but I don’t understand, or participate. I feel like I am just observing.

You’re missing out on a lot of beauty then. Back when the TLM Masses were said the Churches were filled with Catholics. You can follow in a Missal (believe me most of the parishioners never took Latin in High School). It takes awhile to “get into it” but I find that it is more reverential, and also the beauty of it is that much of the Mass is the same as the NOR Mass, but some prayers, such as the Last Gospel have been omitted.

However, we go to a “Low Mass” which doesn’t included singing, outside of the people singing an English song with the beginning of the Mass and an English song at the closing.

High Masses are beautiful because they include chant. In my childhood we had choirs who sang the Kyrie, Gloria, the Credo and other parts of the Mass and most of these masses were beautiful and classical.

With an influx of Hispanic immigrants who don’t speak English, a Mass like this would be perfect, because it would bring all the parishioner’s together to learn the Mass regardless of what language they spoke.

If you have such a Mass at your diocese, you shouldn’t put it down, but attend it a few times. It was the Mass for over 1800 years, and people didn’t have a problem with it.

 

[Redratfish]

This is why most Catholics, who attend Latin Mass use missals.
Fifty years ago once you learned to sing the chants of the Mass you could do them continuously. The music did not change from year to year as it now does.

I know some of the chants, my problem is with not understanding the complete latin. I am assuming the missal helps, but unless it is word for word, I would be lost.

 

[Redratfish]

You’re missing out on a lot of beauty then. Back when the TLM Masses were said the Churches were filled with Catholics. You can follow in a Missal (believe me most of the parishioners never took Latin in High School). It takes awhile to “get into it” but I find that it is more reverential, and also the beauty of it is that much of the Mass is the same as the NOR Mass, but some prayers, such as the Last Gospel have been omitted.

However, we go to a “Low Mass” which doesn’t included singing, outside of the people singing an English song with the beginning of the Mass and an English song at the closing.

High Masses are beautiful because they include chant. In my childhood we had choirs who sang the Kyrie, Gloria, the Credo and other parts of the Mass and most of these masses were beautiful and classical.

With an influx of Hispanic immigrants who don’t speak English, a Mass like this would be perfect, because it would bring all the parishioner’s together to learn the Mass regardless of what language they spoke.

If you have such a Mass at your diocese, you shouldn’t put it down, but attend it a few times. It was the Mass for over 1800 years, and people didn’t have a problem with it.

While I agree back then, the world was also a lot more Catholic than now. Please do not say this is just becuase the Mass was allowed to be spoken in peoples natural tounge, as I don’t see why people would leave simply becuase they can understand the mass better. The secularization of the world, and of course the media with the priestly abuse (which I know is highly exagerated) simply took many people away from the Church. The way the Mass was said has nothing to do with it.

I have no problem with the TLM being celebrated if that is what people like. However, I was born in 94, and do not know Latin. While I do know the Kyrie, Gloria, the Credo and what they are in English, the other parts I would be lost. I have been to a TLM mass once for one of my parish priests 50th anniversary of ordination. I somewhat liked it, but I was lost for much of it, even with the missal.

 

[ProVobis]

I know some of the chants, my problem is with not understanding the complete latin. I am assuming the missal helps, but unless it is word for word, I would be lost.

Ask and ye shall receive. Hope this helps.

rickmk.com/Mass/masstext.html

 

[Chatter163]

While I agree back then, the world was also a lot more Catholic than now. Please do not say this is just becuase the Mass was allowed to be spoken in peoples natural tounge, as I don’t see why people would leave simply becuase they can understand the mass better. The secularization of the world, and of course the media with the priestly abuse (which I know is highly exagerated) simply took many people away from the Church. The way the Mass was said has nothing to do with it.

I have no problem with the TLM being celebrated if that is what people like. However, I was born in 94, and do not know Latin. While I do know the Kyrie, Gloria, the Credo and what they are in English, the other parts I would be lost. I have been to a TLM mass once for one of my parish priests 50th anniversary of ordination. I somewhat liked it, but I was lost for much of it, even with the missal.

The Mass is not something that one understands in one or two sittings. It takes a few months, but then it is easy.

 

[ProVobis]

The Mass is not something that one understands in one or two sittings. It takes a few months, but then it is easy.

Exactly. Many don’t understand the Mass even in their own vernacular. They may recognize the words but that doesn’t mean they understand what’s being said. And how many people, especially young kids, really pay attention to what they say when they pray the Our Father, for example? The Latin forces them to do a little work, but once achieved, they’ll probably have gained a much better understanding of it.

 

[bkayw]

I asked my 91 year old Dad about the Latin Mass. He hated it because the laity didn’t understand Latin and the Mass became difficult to receive in.

I vaguely remember the Latin Mass as a very young child (I was born in '60). My older sisters were always asking, “What are they saying?”

I listen often to EWTN, and the cantor (?) will sing a Psalm in Latin. I like to sing and realize that if I were there, I’d be left in the pew unable to sing. Latin is exclusionary.

There are many beautiful Latin songs that I love (Tavenger) but actually those songs althou liturgy, are sung by 3 or 4 very accomplished singers.

 

[bmccpy78]

See what everyone else wants. Why let one woman control what the parish does? If more people agree on an expanded use of Latin, I don’t know why the priest would need to bend over backwards just to please one woman.

While those that would be unhappy with a wider use of Latin and sacred music are a minority in my parish they are a very vocal minority and can be very uncharitable to those that don’t agree with them. He is not looking to offer the whole mass in Latin (except for maybe very solemn occasions such as the triduum) just small parts on occasion angus dei, the consecration, ect. He has received some requests to use the high altar on occasion which he has no problem with, but some parishioners respond with “I wont have that in my parish”. So it sits idle like a lifeless gold adorned slab of marble under a dust covered mosaic encrusted baldacchino, just remnants of a past era. Whats strange is we offer a creole mass for our hatian society and they have no problem with that it’s just the latin.

 

[ConstantineTG]

While those that would be unhappy with a wider use of Latin and sacred music are a minority in my parish they are a very vocal minority and can be very uncharitable to those that don’t agree with them. He is not looking to offer the whole mass in Latin (except for maybe very solemn occasions such as the triduum) just small parts on occasion angus dei, the consecration, ect. He has received some requests to use the high altar on occasion which he has no problem with, but some parishioners respond with “I wont have that in my parish”. So it sits idle like a lifeless gold adorned slab of marble under a dust covered mosaic encrusted baldacchino, just remnants of a past era. Whats strange is we offer a creole mass for our hatian society and they have no problem with that it’s just the latin.

Your priest will continue to give in to the minority if the majority just sits around and doesn’t support him (not that I mean that literally, but you know what I mean).

Ask others who would want this and form a group and support your priest if he too wants to do this. If you have more than one Mass on Sunday, do it for one Mass and not in all Masses. That way those who do not want the Latin can attend the all-English Mass. And those who would want some Latin or doesn’t mind Latin can attend the other one.

 

[CB_Catholic]

Yesterday was my parish’s annual picnic. I was having a conversation with my pastor and the topic of Latin in the new mass came up. He said that he would like to use Latin in parts of the mass at our parish but he just is not able to do it. He referenced to an occasion when he used one line of Latin during the mass and a woman stood up and shouted at him. This worries me because we are a relatively orthodox parish with many women who still where lace head coverings and practice devotions before mass. I did not know how to respond to this. This upset me because he mentioned that he would like to restore more traditions (chant, incense, ect.) but it just would not be possible with the attitude of our parishioners. Is this a problem most parishes are faced with? What could our parish overcome these types of problems?

Some people in my parish might not like it, but to go to the extent of standing up in Mass and shouting at the priest–I cannot imagine anyone doing something like that, and I think THAT would upset people more than the use of Latin, and I don’t think my pastor would be intimidated by the woman at all. He seems to be the type that is not easily dissuaded–when he makes a decision to do or change something, it’s pretty final. Not that he doesn’t listen to people and weigh things, he does, but he has the last word. So in my parish, we wouldn’t have much of a problem if he introduced more Latin into the Mass. There might be some grumbling among certain people, but it wouldn’t do them any good, and most of us know it.

But to tell the truth, I don’t see him introducing more Latin into the Mass. He does a by the book Liturgy in English. He doesn’t add anything or leave anything out. And I don’t see him changing that any time soon.

 

[Adeodatus]

While those that would be unhappy with a wider use of Latin and sacred music are a minority in my parish they are a very vocal minority and can be very uncharitable to those that don’t agree with them. He is not looking to offer the whole mass in Latin (except for maybe very solemn occasions such as the triduum) just small parts on occasion angus dei, the consecration, ect. He has received some requests to use the high altar on occasion which he has no problem with, but some parishioners respond with “I wont have that in my parish”. So it sits idle like a lifeless gold adorned slab of marble under a dust covered mosaic encrusted baldacchino, just remnants of a past era. Whats strange is we offer a creole mass for our hatian society and they have no problem with that it’s just the latin.

Welcome to the last 40 years.

It only takes a few Revolutionary radicals to take the focus of the Mass away from God and put it on their Aquarian ideas.

 

[archangel04]

While I agree back then, the world was also a lot more Catholic than now. Please do not say this is just becuase the Mass was allowed to be spoken in peoples natural tounge, as I don’t see why people would leave simply becuase they can understand the mass better. The secularization of the world, and of course the media with the priestly abuse (which I know is highly exagerated) simply took many people away from the Church. The way the Mass was said has nothing to do with it.

I have no problem with the TLM being celebrated if that is what people like. However, I was born in 94, and do not know Latin. While I do know the Kyrie, Gloria, the Credo and what they are in English, the other parts I would be lost. I have been to a TLM mass once for one of my parish priests 50th anniversary of ordination. I somewhat liked it, but I was lost for much of it, even with the missal.

I was born in 85 never took Latin, and served for 10 years Spanish Novus Ordo mass, yet I love the TLM. At first I was like you very lost and confused almost felt like I didn’t even attend mass properly, but after the 3rd time everything started to fall in place. I purchased a missal and read it, it gave so much theology and info about the mass that 12 years of CCD classes never thought me.