How a married gay Catholic couple live their faith

[Joe_5859]

Yes, remove a priest who loves his family and agrees with most parish priests concerning gay individuals. The uncle did not officiate, so I don’t see where he committed an act that would require him to be fired.

PS: Where is the supposed “scandal”?

“Scandal” does not mean simply that something is “shocking” or that it is “offensive to most people’s sensibilities.” The theological definition of scandal is “to lead someone else to do evil (i.e. sin).”

This would certainly qualify. The priest is leading others to believe that a homosexual union is “sacred and sacramental”, which contradicts the natural law and Catholic teaching. The fact that he is a priest heightens the scandal. People will look at his comments and use it to dismiss and reject Catholic teaching on marriage. They will use it as cover for making life choices that go against the reality of what marriage is.

I’m sure the archbishop is looking into it and will handle it appropriately.

 

[1neophyte]

I’m sure the archbishop is looking into it and will handle it appropriately.

Why would you be sure of that? If bishops handled things appropriately, such men would never have become priests in the first place.

 

[Joe_5859]

Why would you be sure of that? If bishops handled things appropriately, such men would never have become priests in the first place.

People’s views can be hidden or change over time. On this subject in particular, that can happen when a close family member “comes out”, which is exactly what happened in this case. Further, bishops are not clairvoyant. They cannot see the future. Even if they could, that doesn’t negate free will. One of Jesus’ 12 hand-picked apostles betrayed him unto death. I don’t see why we should expect the track record of our bishops to be any better.

Archbishop Vigneron is a solid bishop. There may not be a public statement of reprimand, but it doesn’t mean it isn’t being handled. I would trust him to handle it in the appropriate way.

 

[Padres1969]

Imported priests? We’ ve had priests from other cultures here if that’s what you mean. We just never called priests “imports”.

What would you call them? I mean they’re not really immigrants per se since they’re being brought in from their home countries to fill holes in the US. I mean yes it’s a strange word to see associated with people but it’s an accurate word to use.

And it has been going on for some time. Almost every Catholic Church I’ve visited over the last 20 years has had at least one non-American priest they’ve brought in due to a shortage of native priests or they’ve made due without. Which doesn’t surprise me. I always use my childhood parish as a gauge, and in the 80’s they had the pastor, an assistant priest and at least 2 priests in residence who also assisted as needed. Now they’re down to just the pastor. (to be fair this isn’t a uniquely Catholic issue, the dean of my Episcopal parish is not originally American either).

 

[TMC]

I live in California. Many people are gay. Many priests are gay - diocesan as well as those from Orders. Most of the ones I know are out. Why is this ‘amazing’ to you?

I don’t know how this could be amazing to anyone that knows clergy personally or is closely involved with the Church. I used to know a number of priests quite well, but I am less involved with the Church these days, and I don’t currently socialize with any Catholic clergy. But when I did, I would have said less than half - but far more than the general public. 30-40%. Some more open about it than others.

 

[zz912]

I live in California. Many people are gay. Many priests are gay - diocesan as well as those from Orders. Most of the ones I know are out. Why is this ‘amazing’ to you?

To get a comparison, without looking up actual numbers, could you give you estimate of the homosexual population % of California and San Fran for me?

 

[clem456]

I don’t know how this could be amazing to anyone that knows clergy personally or is closely involved with the Church. I used to know a number of priests quite well, but I am less involved with the Church these days, and I don’t currently socialize with any Catholic clergy. But when I did, I would have said less than half - but far more than the general public. 30-40%. Some more open about it than others.

More unsubstantiated speculation. Did you see these 40% having sex with another man? If you didn’t see it or participate, how would you possibly know a man is a practicing homosexual? Are you confidante to the priesthood?

I think when you and others make allegations about the alleged sexual activities of others, you should have the decency to substantiate.

I know no gay priests, and I know a lot of priests. Not one. Priests in our area have had affairs, with people of both sexes. A few have been charged with crimes. (On that issue…I’m sure you aware that priests offend at statistically the same rate as the general population. Are you aware that a child is 100 times more likely to be molested by a teacher than a priest?)

 

[TMC]

More unsubstantiated speculation. Did you see these 40% having sex with another man? If you didn’t see it or participate, how would you possibly know a man is a practicing homosexual? Are you confidante to the priesthood?

I think when you and others make allegations about the alleged sexual activities of others, you should have the decency to substantiate.

I know no gay priests, and I know a lot of priests. Not one. Priests in our area have had affairs, with people of both sexes. A few have been charged with crimes. (On that issue…I’m sure you aware that priests offend at statistically the same rate as the general population. Are you aware that a child is 100 times more likely to be molested by a teacher than a priest?)

When did I say practicing homosexual? Or say anything about molestation???

I am not a confidant to the “priesthood,” but I have been close with a number of priests. My own experience is that many of them are gay, far more so than in the general population. That has nothing to do with whether or not they hold to their vows. It is certainly true that both gay and straight priests violate their vows. I have no idea if violating chastity is more common for straight or gay priests. Knowing someone’s orientation is, after all, very different than being privy to the details of their sex life.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

More unsubstantiated speculation. Did you see these 40% having sex with another man? If you didn’t see it or participate, how would you possibly know a man is a practicing homosexual? Are you confidante to the priesthood?

I think when you and others make allegations about the alleged sexual activities of others, you should have the decency to substantiate.

I know no gay priests, and I know a lot of priests. Not one. Priests in our area have had affairs, with people of both sexes. A few have been charged with crimes. (On that issue…I’m sure you aware that priests offend at statistically the same rate as the general population. Are you aware that a child is 100 times more likely to be molested by a teacher than a priest?)

 

[clem456]

When did I say practicing homosexual?

You and another poster claim 40-50% of priests where you live are gay.
Do I hear you backtracking?

Or say anything about molestation???

That’s always the next knee jerk thing to come up.

I am not a confidant to the “priesthood,” but I have been close with a number of priests. My own experience is that many of them are gay, far more so than in the general population. That has nothing to do with whether or not they hold to their vows. It is certainly true that both gay and straight priests violate their vows. I have no idea if violating chastity is more common for straight or gay priests. Knowing someone’s orientation is, after all, very different than being privy to the details of their sex life.

Knowing someone’s orientation is to know details. Someone talking about their sexual orientation is a fairly confidential conversation, don’t you think?

It’s just amazing that some of you have that kind of confidential knowledge.

 

[TMC]

You and another poster claim 40-50% of priests where you live are gay.
Do I hear you backtracking?
That’s always the next knee jerk thing to come up.

Knowing someone’s orientation is to know details. Someone talking about their sexual orientation is a fairly confidential conversation, don’t you think?

It’s just amazing that some of you have that kind of confidential knowledge.

What is the backtrack? Knowing someone’s orientation is NOT the same as knowing the details of their sex lives. And being gay is NOT the same as being sexually active.

I would say I know the sexual orientation of the vast majority of the people that I know. I certainly know the sexual orientation of all of my friends. Do you not? Are you telling me that you don’t know that anyone is straight without also knowing all about their sex lives? Why would that be different for gay people?

 

[1neophyte]

This is most fascinating and enlightening.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Walking towards what?
Journeying towards what?

The underlying assumption to your argument here is that they are imperfect/wrong, and are moving towards what is right/true/perfect. But you don’t like actually admitting their current state is wrong/imperfect. That’s not how that works. If they are on a faith journey as you believe, then by implicit admission you acknowledge their behavior as wrong.

I look at all who are seeking to be with God eternally to be on a journey.

 

[Sy_Noe]

In this ultimate truth you claim exists, is homosexual behavior right or wrong?

Some of the branches upon which hold the faith of Christians who are not faithful Catholics view homosexuality and marriage differently than does the faithful Catholic. Some branches also believe closed communion is wrong. Or female priests are right. It’s all a matter of interpretations and understanding.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

I look at all who are seeking to be with God eternally to be on a journey.

Sy (do you prefer to be called Sy or Sy Noe?), I am glad you brought up the concept of journey. I have been re-reading my beloved TS Elliot lately in light of the journey to God. The mystics, too, speak of the journey of the soul. That’s good imagery for me - my journey. It’s a good solid one in Christianity. We have the labyrinth here in San Francisco - the original one brought over from Chartres Cathedral. It lives at Grace Cathedral. Walking the labyrinth is the symbolic journey, isn’t it? Well, that’s why it was created in the Middle Ages, wasn’t it - for those who could not go on the Crusades, and gain those indulgences, it was a way to simulate the holy journey.

The person who challenged you - I’m afraid I don’t have the name - says you are reluctant to admit that the person on the journey is wrong or imperfect. But that’s not the point at all. The point, at least to me in MY journey, is that I keep moving forward toward God’s embracing arms. It doesn’t matter two shakes if I hop, skip, or jump badly. It’s God I’m after - and therefore my complete and whole self is what I bring.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

It’s all a matter of interpretations and understanding.

And I would add discernment also. The Holy Spirit aids in that discernment.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

I don’t see the logic in that argument. Why would the nephew want to show the priest as neurotic? After all he supports the mens same sex union. If anything they probably did it in the naive belief that if enough people stand up things will change in the Church.

The nephew’s friend might.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

Another thought - was it the officiant of the other denomination (where they contracted their arrangement) who called the press in and was it with their considered consent?

Also, if the press are quoting someone else quoting the priest is their source (even one of this pair) quoting the priest fairly?

The more one “studies” these “situations” the more they begin to look like hot air.

Mind you the main thing is either he should take his collar off or not be there, press or no press. He can still be friends with them while not being there - like Pope Francis. And taking their collars off isn’t a good precedent.

 

[1neophyte]

Another thought - was it the officiant of the other denomination (where they contracted their arrangement) who called the press in and was it with their considered consent?

Also, if the press are quoting someone else quoting the priest is their source (even one of this pair) quoting the priest fairly?

The more one “studies” these “situations” the more they begin to look like hot air.

Mind you the main thing is either he should take his collar off or not be there, press or no press. He can still be friends with them while not being there - like Pope Francis. And taking their collars off isn’t a good precedent.

I like how you put “studies” in quotation marks, to indicate what you’re doing is actually guessing, and not studying.

What if the officiant was actually Pope Francis in disguise, and the article was written by Pope Benedict? What if they all got together after the “ceremony” and watched a super secret advance screening of the new Star Wars movie. What might this mean?

The story gets more interesting all the time.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Sy (do you prefer to be called Sy or Sy Noe?), I am glad you brought up the concept of journey. I have been re-reading my beloved TS Elliot lately in light of the journey to God. The mystics, too, speak of the journey of the soul. That’s good imagery for me - my journey. It’s a good solid one in Christianity. We have the labyrinth here in San Francisco - the original one brought over from Chartres Cathedral. It lives at Grace Cathedral. Walking the labyrinth is the symbolic journey, isn’t it? Well, that’s why it was created in the Middle Ages, wasn’t it - for those who could not go on the Crusades, and gain those indulgences, it was a way to simulate the holy journey.

The person who challenged you - I’m afraid I don’t have the name - says you are reluctant to admit that the person on the journey is wrong or imperfect. But that’s not the point at all. The point, at least to me in MY journey, is that I keep moving forward toward God’s embracing arms. It doesn’t matter two shakes if I hop, skip, or jump badly. It’s God I’m after - and therefore my complete and whole self is what I bring.

Either is fine. I really only put the 2 together to pacify the forum so Sy works for me too and it saves a few letters. I didn’t quite understand ZZ912’s point anyway. I just assumed perhaps none of us have reached perfection yet along our journeys to it. And an excellent point you added in your other post about discernment. Thank for doing so.