How and why to pray through Mary?

[iaskquestions]

I am a Catholic. But in my childhood I was bombarded with Protestant beliefs and ideologies.

I’m still a Catholic though. But, to this day I find it difficult or sometimes even silly to pray through Mary or the saints.

I pray to Jesus and the Father. And I’m heard. So why should I pray through Mary or the saints? How can I be sure that St.“so and so” is hearing me? And what’s the advantage of doing that when I know Christ hears me and so does the Father? Or is it that they cannot always hear me?

When did this practice of praying through Mary and the saints begin?

 

[ChrisWRIT]

I am a Catholic. But in my childhood I was bombarded with Protestant beliefs and ideologies.

I’m still a Catholic though. But, to this day I find it difficult or sometimes even silly to pray through Mary or the saints.

I pray to Jesus and the Father. And I’m heard. So why should I pray through Mary or the saints? How can I be sure that St.“so and so” is hearing me? And what’s the advantage of doing that when I know Christ hears me and so does the Father? Or is it that they cannot always hear me?

When did this practice of praying through Mary and the saints begin?

Why? Because "The prayer of a righteous man is powerful & effective.” (James 5:16)

I don’t know exactly when it started, but there is a ton of evidence that the practice began very early.

Perhaps this article will help explain it.

catholic.com/library/Praying_to_the_Saints.asp

Additionally, the Bible Christian Society has a very good set of MP3 talks including one on the Communion of Saints. I recommend checking it out!

biblechristiansociety.com/download

God bless,

Chris

 

[DebChris]

Last year I learned that the priest will take 3 steps back from the altar during the Eucharistic Prayers at every Mass to make room for the communion of saints. They join us everytime the Mass is celebrated.
There is no mandate that a person must pray to the saints. The way to look at this, however, is that they are alive. When we ask them to intercede it is the same as when we ask a good friend.
I like the description that Louis de Montfort gives. Think about a child who has a gift, perhaps a flower (a dandelion) that he wants to give as a gift. Mary will put that flower in a vase and carry it on a tray to her Son.

 

[iaskquestions]

Think about a child who has a gift, perhaps a flower (a dandelion) that he wants to give as a gift. Mary will put that flower in a vase and carry it on a tray to her Son.

Beautiful. But, will Mary always hear me? Will the saints always hear me? If I ask God for something and if I am answered, how will I know whether my prayer was answered because I prayed directly to God or because I prayed through Mary?

Is it possible that a prayer of mine was not answered because I didn’t pray through Mary? i.e Is it possible for a prayer to be answered if it is prayed through Mary and not be answered if not prayed through Mary?

Don’t get me wrong, let me put it this way. Suppose I prayed a certain prayer and I got no answer. After some days, I prayed through Mary and I was answered immediately. Is this possible?

 

[Rolltide]

I am a Catholic. But in my childhood I was bombarded with Protestant beliefs and ideologies.

I’m still a Catholic though. But, to this day I find it difficult or sometimes even silly to pray through Mary or the saints.

I pray to Jesus and the Father. And I’m heard. So why should I pray through Mary or the saints? How can I be sure that St.“so and so” is hearing me? And what’s the advantage of doing that when I know Christ hears me and so does the Father? Or is it that they cannot always hear me?

When did this practice of praying through Mary and the saints begin?

A few things to consider:

1. As a Catholic, I assume you go to Mass at least every Sunday. As part of the Mass, we ask the parishoners to pray for our intentions. Have you ever had the congregation pray for your sick grandmother before? If so, why? Shouldn’t I pray directly to God instead? Why should I even bother asking them to pray for her?
2. Catholics believe that we do not cease to exist when we die, but that many of us will enjoy eternal life in heaven.
3. So… if these people do, in fact, continue to exist, why is it any different asking the deceased to pray for my intention than asking the living in my congregation to pray for my intention. It is the same thing.
4. As a Catholic who attends Mass, you are not required to ask for the intercession of the angels, saints, or Mary outside of the Mass. That said, you are already doing so inside of the context of the Mass. See if the following passage sounds familiar:

“And I ask blessed Mary, ever Virgin,
all the angels and saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God.”

Catholics regard prayer as SO important, that we are literally asking EVERYONE in the heavens and on earth to pray along with us!

And finally, you ask “How do I know if Saint so-and-so can hear me”? Well, nothing is impossible with God. He can allow them to be privy to any information that he deems necessary, regardless of their state of existence. For example, Moses and Elijah appeared during the Transfiguration and were certainly aware of that event.

 

[DebChris]

Beautiful. But, will Mary always hear me? Will the saints always hear me? If I ask God for something and if I am answered, how will I know whether my prayer was answered because I prayed directly to God or because I prayed through Mary?

Is it possible that a prayer of mine was not answered because I didn’t pray through Mary? i.e Is it possible for a prayer to be answered if it is prayed through Mary and not be answered if not prayed through Mary?

Don’t get me wrong, let me put it this way. Suppose I prayed a certain prayer and I got no answer. After some days, I prayed through Mary and I was answered immediately. Is this possible?

“Wherever two are more are gathered, I am there.”
Our prayers are always more powerful when we pray with others.
For non-Catholics (the Pope no longer uses the term Protestant), this means finding somebody to pray with and for us. When we ask a saint to pray for us, our prayer is joined to that of the saint.
We know from scripture (the Wedding at Cana) that Jesus does not deny a prayer offered by His mother.
What is important to remember is that God does answer prayer. This is not a “name and claim” type of spirituality although I have seen these types of prayers answered for simple matters.
Prayer, in whichever form we use is communication with God. God is unchanging. Prayer changes us. A loving Father will not give us anything that will cause harm or lead us away from his saving grace.
I don’t know if I really answered your question. I don’t really worry about whether a prayer I offered was answered because of the intercession of others (friends and/or saints) or if it was one directly offered to God.
A simple case is crying out in pain “Lord” as a cramp woke me from sleep (I lay my hand on the cramp). God immediately removed the cramp.
Another time I was praying the rosary when I suddenly remembered a scene from the Waltons. At that moment I knew why I was having difficulty getting airplane tickets for my daughter. I elicited the prayer of others for the safety of the plane. The person I first called was my own mother.
Again, I don’t know if I answered your questions. As with anything in life, sometimes we need help and occasionally what we do on our own is sufficient. I give thanks to God for answered prayer. I thank my friends for their prayers on my behalf.

 

[DebChris]

A few things to consider:

1. As a Catholic, I assume you go to Mass at least every Sunday. As part of the Mass, we ask the parishoners to pray for our intentions. Have you ever had the congregation pray for your sick grandmother before? If so, why? Shouldn’t I pray directly to God instead? Why should I even bother asking them to pray for her?
2. Catholics believe that we do not cease to exist when we die, but that many of us will enjoy eternal life in heaven.
3. So… if these people do, in fact, continue to exist, why is it any different asking the deceased to pray for my intention than asking the living in my congregation to pray for my intention. It is the same thing.
4. As a Catholic who attends Mass, you are not required to ask for the intercession of the angels, saints, or Mary outside of the Mass. That said, you are already doing so inside of the context of the Mass. See if the following passage sounds familiar:

“And I ask blessed Mary, ever Virgin,
all the angels and saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God.”

Catholics regard prayer as SO important, that we are literally asking EVERYONE in the heavens and on earth to pray along with us!

And finally, you ask “How do I know if Saint so-and-so can hear me”? Well, nothing is impossible with God. He can allow them to be privy to any information that he deems necessary, regardless of their state of existence. For example, Moses and Elijah appeared during the Transfiguration and were certainly aware of that event.

Great post. I very much agree with what you posted.

 

[emeraldisle]

A few things to consider:

1. As a Catholic, I assume you go to Mass at least every Sunday. As part of the Mass, we ask the parishoners to pray for our intentions. Have you ever had the congregation pray for your sick grandmother before? If so, why? Shouldn’t I pray directly to God instead? Why should I even bother asking them to pray for her?

God teaches in His written word that His children on earth are to pray to Him for each other. No where in His written word does God teach His children to ask the departed(those who are absent from the body & present with the Lord) Christians to pray for them.

1. So… if these people do, in fact, continue to exist, why is it any different asking the deceased to pray for my intention than asking the living in my congregation to pray for my intention. It is the same thing.

Again God doesn’t teach in His written word that His children are to ask the departed Christians to pray for them.

Catholics regard prayer as SO important, that we are literally asking EVERYONE in the heavens and on earth to pray along with us!

Gods teaching on how to pray is so important. All Christians must pray the way God teaches them to pray, this is so important.

And finally, you ask “How do I know if Saint so-and-so can hear me”? Well, nothing is impossible with God. He can allow them to be privy to any information that he deems necessary, regardless of their state of existence. For example, Moses and Elijah appeared during the Transfiguration and were certainly aware of that event.

God doesn’t say in His written word this is how to pray and then add a footnote stating but you are free to pray whatever way **you **want. Christians must pray the way God wants them to pray.

.

 

[LilyM]

God teaches in His written word that His children on earth are to pray to Him for each other. No where in His written word does God teach His children to ask the departed(those who are absent from the body & present with the Lord) Christians to pray for them.

Again God doesn’t teach in His written word that His children are to ask the departed Christians to pray for them.

Gods teaching on how to pray is so important. All Christians must pray the way God teaches them to pray, this is so important.

God doesn’t say in His written word this is how to pray and then add a footnote stating but you are free to pray whatever way **you **want. Christians must pray the way God wants them to pray.

.

I can’t believe you still imagine God and His teaching is confined to the written page. Give me just one chapter and verse where we are told to ignore oral teaching and tradition and only focus on the written word?

 

[Rolltide]

God teaches in His written word that His children on earth are to pray to Him for each other. No where in His written word does God teach His children to ask the departed(those who are absent from the body & present with the Lord) Christians to pray for them.

And why on earth does that matter? The Bible isn’t the only source for Christian belief, although Sola Scriptura Protestants believe it is. Both Catholics AND Orthodox believe that the intercession of saints is possible, and that’s the vast majority of Christians (about 77%).

Again God doesn’t teach in His written word that His children are to ask the departed Christians to pray for them.

Well, not in the Protestant written word, because you have seven books less than we do. By throwing away those books, you have discarded many of the Biblical passages that do, in fact, suggest this.

Gods teaching on how to pray is so important. All Christians must pray the way God teaches them to pray, this is so important.

I completely agree with you on this one!

God doesn’t say in His written word this is how to pray and then add a footnote stating but you are free to pray whatever way **you **want. Christians must pray the way God wants them to pray.

Yes. And Catholics and Orthodox do.

 

[ChrisWRIT]

God teaches in His written word that His children on earth are to pray to Him for each other. No where in His written word does God teach His children to ask the departed(those who are absent from the body & present with the Lord) Christians to pray for them.

Where does the Bible say that we are NOT to pray to the saints to ask for their prayer & intercession?

Again God doesn’t teach in His written word that His children are to ask the departed Christians to pray for them.

Again, where does God “teach in His written word” that we are NOT to pray to the saints to ask for their prayer & intercession?

The Bible notes that the angels & saints in heaven do offer up our prayers (Rev. 5:8 & Rev. 8:3). Additionally, it states that “the prayer of a righteous man is powerful & effective” (James 5:16).

When we pray to Mary & the saints, we ask them to pray for us.

Can you provide a verse that shows that we CAN’T pray to them, or that the saints in heaven AREN’T righteous?

Gods teaching on how to pray is so important. All Christians must pray the way God teaches them to pray, this is so important.

Amen.

God doesn’t say in His written word this is how to pray and then add a footnote stating but you are free to pray whatever way **you **want. Christians must pray the way God wants them to pray.

Where does God “teach in His written word” exactly how to pray and what to pray? Psalms? Or only the Lord’s prayer?

Which brings to mind, I don’t think I’ve ever seen the “sinners prayer” that is recited so often at fundamentalist churches in their altar calls in Scripture. What verse is that one in again?

Just curious.

Cheers,

Chris

 

[emeraldisle]

I can’t believe you still imagine God and His teaching is confined to the written page. Give me just one chapter and verse where we are told to ignore oral teaching and tradition and only focus on the written word?

I can’t believe that millions of people would pray to a departed Christian who can’t even hear their prayers but then again when people reject Gods teaching in His written word on how to pray they then end up with all sorts of foolish ideas on how to pray.

.

 

[Rolltide]

I can’t believe that millions of people would pray to a departed Christian who can’t even hear their prayers but then again when people reject Gods teaching in His written word on how to pray they then end up with all sorts of foolish ideas on how to pray.

.

You have yet to produce a single verse that states that our belief is incorrect, and yet we have provided Biblical evidence that it IS correct…

From Scripturecatholic.com:

New Testament

Matt. 5:44-45 - Jesus tells us to pray for (to mediate on behalf of) those who persecute us. God instructs us to mediate.

Matt. 17:1-3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30-31 – deceased Moses and Elijah appear at the Transfiguration to converse with Jesus in the presence of Peter, James and John (these may be the two “witnesses” John refers to in Rev. 11:3). Nothing in Scripture ever suggests that God abhors or cuts off communication between the living in heaven and the living on earth. To the contrary, God encourages communication within the communion of saints. Moses and Elijah’s appearance on earth also teach us that the saints in heaven have capabilities that far surpass our limitations on earth.

Matt. 26:53 – Jesus says He can call upon the assistance of twelve legions of angels. If Jesus said He could ask for the assistance of angel saints – and He obviously would not have been worshiping them in so doing – then so can we, who need their help infinitely more than Jesus, and without engaging in idolatry. And, in Matt. 22:30, Jesus says we will be “like angels in heaven.” This means human saints (like the angel saints) can be called upon to assist people on earth. God allows and encourages this interaction between his family members.

Matt. 27:47,49; Mark 15:35-36 – the people believe that Jesus calls on Elijah for his intercession, and waits to see if Elijah would come to save Jesus on the cross.

Matt. 27:52-53 - at Jesus’ passion, many saints were raised and went into the city to appear and presumably interact with the people, just as Jesus did after His resurrection.

Mark 11:24 - Jesus says that whatever we ask in prayer, we will receive it. It is Jesus, and also we through Jesus, who mediate.

John 2:3 - Jesus knew the wine was gone, but invites and responds to Mary’s intercession. God desires our lesser mediation and responds to it because He is a living and loving God.

John 2:5 - Mary intercedes on behalf of those at the wedding feast and tells them to do whatever Jesus tells them. Because Mary is our perfect model of faith, we too intercede on behalf of our brothers and sisters.

John 2:11 - in fact, it was Mary’s intercession that started Jesus’ ministry. His hour had not yet come, yet Jesus responds to Mary’s intercession. Even though He could do it all by Himself, God wants to work with His children.

Acts 12:7 – an angel strikes Peter on the side and wakes him up, freeing him from prison. The angel responds to Peter’s prayers.

Rom. 15:30 - Paul commands the family of God to pray for him. If we are united together in the one body of Christ, we can help each other.

2 Cor. 1:11 - Paul even suggests that the more prayers and the more people who pray, the merrier! Prayer is even more effective when united with other’s prayers.

2 Cor. 9:14 - Paul says that the earthly saints pray for the Corinthians. They are subordinate mediators in Christ.

2 Cor. 13:7,9 - Paul says the elders pray that the Corinthians may do right and improve. They participate in Christ’s mediation.

Gal. 6:2,10 - Paul charges us to bear one another’s burdens, and to do good to all, especially those in the household of faith.

Eph. 6:18 - Paul commands the family of God to pray for each other.

Eph. 6:19 - Paul commands that the Ephesians pray for him. If there is only one mediator, why would Paul ask for their prayers?

Phil. 1:19 - Paul acknowledges power of Philippians’ earthly intercession. He will be delivered by their prayers and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Rolltide]

continued…

Col. 1:3 - Paul says that he and the elders pray for the Colossians. They are subordinate mediators in the body of Christ.

Col. 1:9 - Paul says that he and the elders have not ceased to pray for the Colossians, and that, by interceding, they may gain wisdom.

Col. 4:4 - Paul commands the Colossians to pray for the elders of the Church so that God may open a door for the word. Why doesn’t Paul just leave it up to God? Because subordinate mediation is acceptable and pleasing to God, and brings about change in the world. This is as mysterious as the Incarnation, but it is true.

1 Thess. 5:11 - Paul charges us to encourage one another and build one another up, in the body of Christ. We do this as mediators in Christ.

1 Thess. 5:17 - Paul says “pray constantly.” If Jesus’ role as mediator does not apply subordinately to us, why pray at all?

1 Thess. 5:25 - Paul commands the family of God to pray for the elders of the Church. He desires our subordinate mediation.

2 Thess. 1:11 - Paul tells the family of God that he prays for us. We participate in Christ’s mediation because Christ desires this.

2 Thess. 3:1 - Paul asks the Thessalonians to pray for Him, Silvanus and Timothy so that they may be delivered.

1 Tim. 2:1-3 - Paul commands us to pray for all. Paul also states that these prayers are acceptable in the sight of God.

2 Tim. 1:3 – Paul says “I remember you constantly in my prayers.”

Philemon 22 - Paul is hoping through Philemon’s intercession that he may be able to be with Philemon.

Heb. 1:14 – the author writes, “Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to serve, for the sake of those who are to obtain salvation?”

Hebrews 13:18-19 - the author strongly urges the Hebrews to pray for the elders so that they act desirably in all things.

James 5:14-15- James says the prayer of the priests over the sick man will save the sick man and forgive his sins. This is a powerful example of men forgiving sins and bringing a person to salvation with the sacrament of the sick.

James 5:16 - James instructs us to confess our sins to one another and pray for one another so that we may be healed.

James 5:17-18 - James refers to God’s response to Elijah’s fervent prayer for no rain. He is teaching us about the effectiveness of our earthly mediation.

1 John 5:14-15 - John is confident that God will grant us anything we ask of God according to His will.

1 John 5:16-17 - our prayers for others even calls God to give life to them and keep them from sinning. Our God is a personal and living God who responds to our prayers.

3 John 2 - John prays for Gaius’ health and thus acts as a subordinate mediator.

Rev. 1:4 – this verse shows that angels (here, the seven spirits) give grace and peace. Because grace and peace only come from God, the angels are acting as mediators for God.

Rev. 5:8 - the prayers of the saints (on heaven and earth) are presented to God by the angels and saints in heaven. This shows that the saints intercede on our behalf before God, and it also demonstrates that our prayers on earth are united with their prayers in heaven. (The “24 elders” are said to refer to the people of God – perhaps the 12 tribes and 12 apostles - and the “four living creatures” are said to refer to the angels.)

Rev. 6:9-11 – the martyred saints in heaven cry out in a loud voice to God to avenge their blood “on those who dwell upon the earth.” These are “imprecatory prayers,” which are pleas for God’s judgment (see similar prayers in Psalm 35:1; 59:1-17; 139:19; Jer. 11:20; 15:15; 18:19; Zech.1:12-13). This means that the saints in heaven are praying for those on earth, and God answers their prayers (Rev. 8:1-5). We, therefore, ask for their intercession and protection.

Rev. 8:3-4 – in heaven an angel mingles incense with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne of God, and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God. These prayers “rise up” before God and elicit various kinds of earthly activity. God responds to his children’s requests, whether made by his children on earth or in heaven.

 

[Rolltide]

continued…

Old Testament

Gen. 20:17 - God responds to Abraham’s intercession and heals Abimelech, and also his wife and slaves.

Gen. 27:29; Num. 24:9 - blessed be everyone who blesses you. If we bless others in prayer, we are also blessed.

Exodus 32:11-14, 30-34; 34:9; Num. 14:17-20; 21:7-9 - these are many examples of God’s response to Moses’ saintly intercession.

1 Sam. 12:23 - Samuel says that he would be sinning against God if he didn’t continue to intercede for the people of Israel.

1 Sam. 28:7-20 – the deceased prophet Samuel appears and converses with Saul, which is confirmed by Sirach 46:13,20).

1 Sam. 28:7; 1 Chron. 10:13-14 - Saul practiced necromancy. He used a medium, not God, to seek the dead and was therefore condemned. Saul’s practice is entirely at odds with the Catholic understanding of saintly mediation, where God is the source and channel of all communication, and who permits His children to participate in this power.

2 Chron. 30:27 - the prayers of the priests and Levites came before God’s holy habitation in heaven and were answered.

Tobit 12:12,15 - angels place Tobit and Sarah’s prayers before the Holy One. This teaches us that the angels are also our subordinate mediators. We pray to the angels to take up our prayers to God.

Job 42:7-9 - Job prayed for three friends in sin and God listened to Job as a result of these prayers.

Psalm 34:7 – the angel of the Lord delivers those who fear him.

Psalm 91:11 – God will give His angels charge of you, to guard you in all your ways.

Psalm 103:20-21; 148:1-2 – we praise the angels and ask for their assistance in doing God’s will.

Psalm 141:2 - David asks that his prayer be counted as incense before God. The prayers of the saints have powerful effects.

Isaiah 6:6-7 - an angel touches Isaiah’s lips and declares that his sin is forgiven. The angel is a subordinate mediator of God who effects the forgiveness of sins on God’s behalf.

Jer. 7:16 - God acknowledges the people’s ability to intercede, but refuses to answer due to the hardness of heart.

Jer. 15:1 – the Lord acknowledges the intercessory power of Moses and Samuel.

Jer. 37:3 - king Zedekiah sends messengers to ask Jeremiah to intercede for the people, that he might pray to God for them.

Jer. 42:1-6 - all the people of Israel went before Jeremiah asking for his intercession, that he would pray to the Lord for them.

Baruch 3:4 - Baruch asks the Lord to hear the prayers of the dead of Israel. They can intercede on behalf of the people of God.

Dan. 9:20-23 - Daniel intercedes on behalf of the people of Israel confessing both his sins and the sins of the people before God.

Zech. 1:12-13 - an angel intercedes for those in Judea and God responds favorably.

2 Macc. 15:12-16 – the high priest Onias and the prophet Jeremiah were deceased for centuries, and yet interact with the living Judas Maccabeas and pray for the holy people on earth.

 

[Rolltide]

continued…

Veneration / Honor of the Saints

Matt. 18:10 - the angels in heaven always behold the face of God. We venerate them for their great dignity and union with God.

Matt. 15:4; Luke 18:20; Eph. 6:2-3 Exodus 20:12; Lev. 19:3; Deut. 5:16 - we are instructed to honor our father and mother.

Luke 1:28 - the angel Gabriel venerates Mary by declaring to her “Hail, full of grace.” The heavenly angel honors the human Mary, for her perfection of grace exceeds that of the angels.

Romans 13:7 - we are to give honor where honor is due. When we honor God’s children, we honor God Himself, for He is the source of all honor.

1 Cor. 4:16 - the most important form of veneration of the saints is “imitating” the saints, as Paul commands us to do.

1 Cor. 11:1 - again, Paul says, “Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.” The ultimate objective of veneration is imitation.

Phil. 2:25-29 - Paul teaches us to honor Epaprhoditus who almost died for the faith. How much more honor is owed to the saints that did die for the faith!

Phil. 3:17 - Paul says to imitate him and others, which is the goal of veneration. Veneration is not worship.

1 Thess. 1:6 – Paul says to the Thessalonians, “You became imitators of us and of the Lord.” This is the goal of veneration.

2 Thess. 3:7 - Paul says that the Thessalonians should imitate him and the other bishops.

Hebrews 3:3 - Jesus is worthy of “more” glory and honor than Moses. This does not mean that the saints are worthy of no glory and honor. Instead, it proves that saintly people are worthy of glory and honor out of God’s goodness.

Heb. 6:12 – the author teaches us to be imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Heb. 13:7 - we must imitate the faith of our faithful leaders. We ask for their intercession and venerate them for their holiness.

James 5:10-11 – James teaches us to take heart in the examples of the prophets and Job, who endured suffering.

1 Peter 2:17 - Peter teaches us to honor all men, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the emperor. Don’t those living with Christ in heaven deserve honor? Catholics believe they do, and honor them with special feast days, just as we honor those living by celebrating their birthdays.

Gen. 19:1 - Lot venerates the two angels in Sodom, bowing himself with his face to the ground.

Gen. 42:6 - Joseph’s brothers bow before Joseph with the face to the ground. This is veneration, not worship.

Exodus 28:2 - it is especially important to honor religious leaders. Sacred garments for Aaron give him dignity and honor.

Lev. 19:32- we should also honor “the face of an old man.” When the elderly die in Christ, we should continue honoring them, because death does not separate them from us or the love of Christ.

1 Sam. 28:14 - Saul bows down before Samuel with his face to the ground in veneration.

2 Chron. 32:33 - Hezekiah was honored at his death. We honor our brothers and sisters in the Lord.

Sir. 44:1-2 - we should praise and give honor to those who the Lord apportioned great glory. It is our family in Christ.

 

[Rolltide]

If that’s not enough, I can give you a few dozen quotes from the Early Church Fathers, but since you only believe in the authority of the Bible, I don’t think they would hold much weight (even if they WERE taught directly by the Apostles, which they were…)

 

[emeraldisle]

You have yet to produce a single verse that states that our belief is incorrect, and yet we have provided Biblical evidence that it IS correct…

You have failed to produce a single verse from Gods written word that tells Christians to pray through Mary.

.

 

[DebChris]

We call on the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?
Did Jesus, himself, not say they were alive?

 

[Rolltide]

You have failed to produce a single verse from Gods written word that tells Christians to pray through Mary.

.

So Mary’s not a saint now?