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meltzerboy2
Guest
Is this a teaching of the Church? I never heard of the demonic influence being strong at the hour of death.
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How and why would anyone choose Hell if they are given the option to live eternally In Heaven with a loving God forever?
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abucs
Guest
Perhaps interacting badly with others is a rejection of God, whether people know it or not.
Perhaps rejecting the church is not enough to go to hell but using that rejection as an excuse to oppose the goodness of the church is.
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Seagull
Guest
I have never heard of people choosing Hell before.
In my small world - everyone thinks there going to Heaven.
People may brag about ‘choosing’ Hell - as where they are going to go -
But NO WAY - do they know - what they are saying.
Some people who have died - and returned from Hell -
like " The Rich man " - of Jesus’s parable…
want to WARN their friends and family - to make amends - as soon as possible !
Your first question - and thoughts - on this site - was WAY TOO long - for me - to read -
In my small world - everyone thinks there going to Heaven.
People may brag about ‘choosing’ Hell - as where they are going to go -
But NO WAY - do they know - what they are saying.
Some people who have died - and returned from Hell -
like " The Rich man " - of Jesus’s parable…
want to WARN their friends and family - to make amends - as soon as possible !
Your first question - and thoughts - on this site - was WAY TOO long - for me - to read -
Tis_Bearself
Patron
I would think someone whose behavior was bad as you said would fall in the category of “have a problem with Church rules, Church teaching, religion in general”. They reject the Commandments, go out and commit sin. This is not always a “reasonable” decision by them - it could be purely allowing animal instincts to take over and rejecting the idea of keeping oneself in control.
With respect to using reason incorrectly, only God can tell when somebody truly wants to know God but is not able despite their best efforts to get past their “reason” standing in the way, vs. when people simply reject God on the basis of their ego, as in they think they know better based on their reason. These are not things that a human can judge with respect to another human. I am pretty sure someone can be standing on the street corner or on the CAF forum yelling “There is no God!” and ranting and raving and yet having deep within themselves the desire to reach out to God. God would see what’s in the person’s heart. Humans, apart from maybe a handful of saints who could read hearts, cannot see.
It is however a fallacy to say that someone’s reason could never land them in Hell. It most certainly could.
With respect to using reason incorrectly, only God can tell when somebody truly wants to know God but is not able despite their best efforts to get past their “reason” standing in the way, vs. when people simply reject God on the basis of their ego, as in they think they know better based on their reason. These are not things that a human can judge with respect to another human. I am pretty sure someone can be standing on the street corner or on the CAF forum yelling “There is no God!” and ranting and raving and yet having deep within themselves the desire to reach out to God. God would see what’s in the person’s heart. Humans, apart from maybe a handful of saints who could read hearts, cannot see.
It is however a fallacy to say that someone’s reason could never land them in Hell. It most certainly could.
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OsculeturMeOsculo
Guest
It’s a thing you can find in Catholic theology and it makes sense.
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runningdude
Guest
Sin is, by definition, irrational. We have a rational immortal soul, yet we continually choose sin and death.
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ImmaCatholic
Guest
Everyone thinks they’re going to Heaven. Not the case. In fact, very very few will make it. If everyone in the world saw Hell for what it was (complete separation from God) then you can bet they would be in Church every single morning and night. They haven’t seen in though, and see “no proof” of God, so it’s a-ok to go ahead and do whatever they want.
Plus, many people these days have no self control. This applies to all aspects of life, but it seems to be most present in lust, and acts of lust. Again, the mentality is “as long as I think I’m a good person, God is a-ok with me doing whatever I want with other people.”
Plus, many people these days have no self control. This applies to all aspects of life, but it seems to be most present in lust, and acts of lust. Again, the mentality is “as long as I think I’m a good person, God is a-ok with me doing whatever I want with other people.”
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Dan_Defender
Guest
You are assuming that people have faith, but most don’t. So they don’t see the ‘option’ that you are describing. They simply reject God because faith is so ‘Middle Ages’ and choose to see sin as a natural behavior. Because of sin in the world, the default destination is Hell, not Heaven. To get to Heaven difficulty is required, to follow the narrow path.
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PennyinCanada
Guest
Imagine a big football game on, all the camera, the people, the crowds, the viewers! Imagine suddenly being buck naked and dropped right in the middle of the field, and all the cameras and eyes are focused on you. What would you do? They can see every angle and nothing is beyond their view!
I would think you would run as fast as you can to the nearest exit.
This is what happens when you die and come before God in the state of sin, and you see the reality of God and his holiness, and the reality of your sinfulness. You will yell for the mountains to cover you, as it says in scripture.
This is why the New Testament says to be ‘clothed in Christ’.
I would think you would run as fast as you can to the nearest exit.
This is what happens when you die and come before God in the state of sin, and you see the reality of God and his holiness, and the reality of your sinfulness. You will yell for the mountains to cover you, as it says in scripture.
This is why the New Testament says to be ‘clothed in Christ’.
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kill051
Guest
Judging from the obesity epidemic, gluttony would appear to be neck-and-neck with lust for most popular capital sin, at least here in the USA.
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TechieGuy
Guest
‘Non Serviam’
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Vico
Guest
- No.
- One that has the Beatific Vision will not choose sin. However we do not have it until we attain heaven. Catechism:
Tis_Bearself
Patron
A lot of the obesity epidemic is due to the amount of sugar and fat in the food being offered, especially the cheap food and fast food that’s accessible to people in lower socioeconomic classes, and not necessarily that people are consuming large meals. There are plenty of poor people with limited food budgets who can’t afford large meals but are nevertheless obese because the meal choices they make, coupled with their own genetics, promote weight gain.
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Latin
Guest
Good question.
I believe, only those would choose hell who has sick mind.
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The question is:
What God’s Justice Demands, to send them hell fire and brimstone or heal them, guide them and aid them as it is described in Ez.36:26-27?
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Ezekiel 36:26-27;
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my Spirit in you and cause you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
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We are truly renewed and healed by the action of the Holy Spirit, remaining always dependent on His aid and work (‘cause you,’) in us.
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Cruciferi
Guest
My Dad witnessed a man, in the hospital, being demonically attacked on his deathbed. The man grabbed my Dad’s arm and pleaded for him to “Not let them take me”. 
He flatlined and couldn’t be resuscitated. Personally, it sounds like there was a little fight going on over his soul. Thankfully, God is the judge and you cannot be dragged into Hell against your will.
He flatlined and couldn’t be resuscitated. Personally, it sounds like there was a little fight going on over his soul. Thankfully, God is the judge and you cannot be dragged into Hell against your will.
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fhansen
Guest
It’s a matter of pride. Pride opposes God and God opposes the proud, exalting the humble as Scripture tells us. Adam was the first human to assume this vice known as pride, preferring himself to God as the Catechism teaches, elevating himself to a level equal to or greater than God by denying His authority. This is to separate and alienate oneself from God, and God is heaven as Pope Emeritus Benedict put it in “Jesus of Nazareth”. And by virtue of that fact it’s to separate and elevate oneself above love which is the one quality that makes existence worthwhile, eternally.Ok, I’m new to this website so if I’ve made any mistakes posting this I’m sorry!
I’ve been Catholic for a while and am quite familiar with the faith. I don’t know if I’ll be able to get my question across clearly, but I will try. Recently I’ve been wondering (and also felt quite distressed at this thought):
If someone is given the option to live forever in Heaven with God and knows fully that Heaven is good, why would they choose Hell? I have heard that there are souls in Hell. And I know that in order to attain Heaven, you must freely choose God. 1. In order to wholly love someone, don’t you need to fully know them? And 2. If someone fully knew and understood the goodness of Heaven (and God, if that is possible), why would they choose Hell?
I know that people go to Hell because they choose it over God. But anyone in their right minds (which is required to make a good/bad choice, right?) would choose good. So if there are people that live with an un-Christian lifestyle and don’t fully understand the concept of Heaven/Hell, would they still go to Hell? Wouldn’t your responsibility for doing something wrong be less? I have heard that we can’t fully know God. So how can we fully choose him?
I apologize if my question was lengthy, hard to understand, or jumbled into a bunch of smaller questions. I also apologize if any of the things I said were wrong. Please correct me if they are.
(I recently was very distressed at the thought of being separated from God forever or being in Heaven but having my family member(s) be in Hell. That’s when I wondered how and why someone could choose Hell, especially if we humans can’t possibly love God wholly and choose him. If I am wrong, let me know. This is just stuff I’ve heard from other sources. I am trying to understand and come to terms with my fears.)
Once again, thank you very much to anyone who read all of this, and sorry for the length of if I posted to the wrong place, etc. Prayers would be much appreciated for me and my family!
po18guy
Well-known member
Saul of Tarsus teaches that our flesh is at war with our spirit. The attraction of the world with its sensual pleasures is very strong, palpable and perceptible. The attraction of a loving, immaterial and imperceptible to the senses G-d is of far less import to many. They live and breathe while separated form the L-rd, and so submit to the temptation to sublimate Him to their worldly desires.
How can you love Whom you do not know? And, see no immediate need for?
How can you love Whom you do not know? And, see no immediate need for?
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Latin
Guest
God directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.
Evil He converts into good (Genesis 1:20; cf. Psalm 90:10); and suffering He uses as an instrument whereby to train men up as a father traineth up his children (Deuteronomy 8:1-6; Psalm 65:2-10;
Nor would God permit evil at all, unless He could draw good out of evil (St. Augustine, “Enchir.”, xi in “P.L.”, LX, 236; “Serm.”
Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit., VI, xxxii in “P.L.”,
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As we see above, God permits evil and sin for ONE REASON and for ONE REASON only, to draw GOOD out from evil and sin.
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The question is:
Can be the good what God draws out from evil and sin everlasting suffering in the pains of hell???
I believe, the good is our holiness and heaven.
I also believe, if the good would be hell, then God would make a monumental mistake by permitting evil and sin.
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Can anyone believe the good would be hell?
Evil He converts into good (Genesis 1:20; cf. Psalm 90:10); and suffering He uses as an instrument whereby to train men up as a father traineth up his children (Deuteronomy 8:1-6; Psalm 65:2-10;
Nor would God permit evil at all, unless He could draw good out of evil (St. Augustine, “Enchir.”, xi in “P.L.”, LX, 236; “Serm.”
Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit., VI, xxxii in “P.L.”,
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As we see above, God permits evil and sin for ONE REASON and for ONE REASON only, to draw GOOD out from evil and sin.
.
The question is:
Can be the good what God draws out from evil and sin everlasting suffering in the pains of hell???
I believe, the good is our holiness and heaven.
I also believe, if the good would be hell, then God would make a monumental mistake by permitting evil and sin.
.
Can anyone believe the good would be hell?
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kill051
Guest
This is frightening. I cannot imagine being at the point of death and having to contend with the father of lies and his minions. I pray constantly for the grace of final perseverance.My Dad witnessed a man, in the hospital, being demonically attacked on his deathbed. The man grabbed my Dad’s arm and pleaded for him to “Not let them take me”.
He flatlined and couldn’t be resuscitated. Personally, it sounds like there was a little fight going on over his soul. Thankfully, God is the judge and you cannot be dragged into Hell against your will.
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